Blue Jays Discussion: Spring Training Discussion: Countdown to the Season (Thursday at 3pm ET/noon PT)
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Bjorn Le
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Spencer Horowitz looks awful and totally not ready for the majors. If it’s down to Vogelbach or Votto feels like a no brainer to pick Votto once he’s ready unless he truly stinks it up in the next six weeks.
He's killing it this spring so far. If he keeps hitting like this I couldn't care less what he looks like.
MK78
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There's a difference between nagging muscle or joint issues and an individual incident that causes a bruise.
Canada4Gold
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Dr.Funk
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Canada4Gold
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It was a joke. Berrios went to shit after being the opening day starter in 22, and Manoah went to shit after having that last year. The assumption coming into Spring was that Gausman would be the opening day starter and he'd get the curse, but obviously they've been forced to go another way because Gausman won't be ready, but now it means he won't be cursed. Just Berrios again.
Wry n Ginger
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Well he's not wrong if the pitching tails off from what they did last season. Because that projected 5-9 of Varsho, Biggio, Kirk/Jansen, IKF and KK in the batting lineup doesn't exactly remind me of the 1927 Yankees. Even though some people on here think so. LOL.
TheBeastCoast
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Who on here thinks that? You aren't that special.
The counter argument is that a couple of the teams in the division have paper thin pitching staffs (if Cole is unavailable, the Yankees would run out a starter (Beeter) who hasn't really had success at AAA yet and who likely would be in the Chad Dallas range of options. Adding on to that, if a second pitcher got hurt, the Yankees 7th man is probably Tully (not on their 40 man and no recent AAA success). Because of his results, it is likely that they would want Gomez (70 innings pitched last year) or Gil (less than 30 innings in the last 2 years) for performance, but each would have hard caps on what they could do.
The Yankees lineup has some real potential, but with the caveat that it revolves enormously around 3 guys. The Yankees projected 7-1 is as weak the Jays' projected 6-9 with the added stupidity of giving extra AB to Lemahieu (who is projected to have around an average wRC+ but somehow with a higher BABIP than he's had since 2021 despite signs of him declining)
Edit: Ironically, the Soto trade could be the thing that hurts the Yankees this year, because the traded King (who would obviously be the next man up with anyone down), Vasquez (provided some quality depth last year), Thorpe (3rd best prospect, knocking on the door of the big leagues, but likely has an innings cap this year) and Higashioka (redundant skillset, easy offload). I'm not suggesting that Soto isn't a great outfielder, but if they had made a Higashioka for Grisham trade and signed Bellinger (approximately the same money), they likely would have been about the same in terms of production without completely gutting the pitching staff.
Boston's pitching staff is much, much deeper, but without Giolito, they only really have depth. Kikuchi would legitimately be a candidate to be the ace of their staff.
Their offense should be okay, but it's extremely sequencing dependent and hopes that a whole bunch of young guys do a lot better.
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As much as we are all disappointed in how the offseason unfolded, a couple of notes as I see them
1) If the Jays had signed Ohtani, it is highly likely that one of Schneider/Lukes would be playing the outfield full time, with Biggio starting at 2B and Espinal starting at 3B. It is also entirely possible that the Jays would have traded Springer+ for a cheaper inferior outfielder for the other spot (to reduce the financial impact)
2) Assuming that San Diego wanted a similar package from the Jays, Tiedemann+Manoah+Francis+Espinal would be a fugly package to give up for Soto and Grisham. I get that we all would have loved to have him, but gutting the team's pitching depth to do it doesn't really make sense.
3) Signing a Bellinger or Chapman was possible early, but with the caveat that it likely precludes one of Kiermaier or Turner being here financially. There's also a longer term ramification that it could force one of the Jays core guys out in a future year.
4) The way to improve was likely trade, but that doesn't mean that anyone was listening.
That being said, as bad as the offseason was for optics, there is real potential with this team to be pretty good.
1) If the Jays had signed Ohtani, it is highly likely that one of Schneider/Lukes would be playing the outfield full time, with Biggio starting at 2B and Espinal starting at 3B. It is also entirely possible that the Jays would have traded Springer+ for a cheaper inferior outfielder for the other spot (to reduce the financial impact)
2) Assuming that San Diego wanted a similar package from the Jays, Tiedemann+Manoah+Francis+Espinal would be a fugly package to give up for Soto and Grisham. I get that we all would have loved to have him, but gutting the team's pitching depth to do it doesn't really make sense.
3) Signing a Bellinger or Chapman was possible early, but with the caveat that it likely precludes one of Kiermaier or Turner being here financially. There's also a longer term ramification that it could force one of the Jays core guys out in a future year.
4) The way to improve was likely trade, but that doesn't mean that anyone was listening.
That being said, as bad as the offseason was for optics, there is real potential with this team to be pretty good.
phillipmike
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Suntouchable13
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To me, what’s glaring about the lineup that KK should really be hitting 9th ideally. If he is not, theoretically, your lineup is not that deep.
If he repeats what he did last year (104 wRC+) having him around the 7 spot is just fine.
As a comparison, that's higher than everyone in the Yankees' projected 6-9 (Stanton, Verdugo, Volpe, Wells) and their leadoff hitter (LeMahieu).
Suntouchable13
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No doubt, but really you’d like him lower in the lineup. Just saying, if the lineup is how you want it to be he should be hitting 9th. But we don’t live an ideal world, I get it.
Yeah, I don't disagree overall. I guess that's what you get when you structure your team primarily around defense.
Springer, KK, and Biggio all had above average years offensively last year. Springer definitely needs to have a better year than last year. Kirk and Varsho likely have better years than last year. Even if Kirk doesn’t Jansen is really good with the bat and Kirk won’t get as much playing time.
Votto to make Blue Jays debut in minor-league game
Joey Votto will play his first game as a Toronto Blue Jay on Tuesday when he suits up in a minor-league contest against the Detroit Tigers in Dunedin, Fla.
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