w e l o s t b o y s
Drawing Frog 8
went looking to see if bean or fox made the top 50
found ned
found ned
All you needed to say.
You haven't seen a kid play in two years yet are going by stats.
You've known me long enough that I evaluate players based on both stats and watching them play. Also throw in a gut feeling.
This list was more short term than long term, barring some exceptions. In the short term -- this season -- Nedeljkovic has a very good chance at being a No. 2 or eventually play himself into the No. 1. Scott Darling isn't Mt. Everest.
Shestyorkin OTOH has to beat out Henrik Lundqvist, and wait until next year to do it. You of all people should know that a weak depth chart historically is the perfect chance for a rookie to distinguish himself. Shestyorkin won't have that opportunity for quite some time. Do I think he's NHL caliber and future No. 1? Yes, but I'm banking on Nedeljkovic making an impact earlier.
Besides, most goalies take anywhere from five to 10 years post-draft to really reach their prime. Ranking goalies as teens or early 20's is playing darts blindfolded. Both these kids will give us a clearer picture in two years anyway.
I simply like Nedeljkovic better. Simple as that.
And I think Sorokin and Samsonov are superior to Shestyorkin. At least, it is very clear to me, especially technically and mentally -- post-save recovery, tracking, net awareness, stickhandling, reads, anticipation etc. Both are more athletic than Shestyorkin, as is Nedeljkovic.
Honestly, every time Ilya came to my team, I saw the problems that he had and have. They were obvious. It took a couple of days to get back to normal. Sorokin did not have enough daily work. I would not say that everything is very bad there, but nevertheless ... In my opinion, Shestyorkin is much more interesting, technically differently equipped. In the regular season, this was clearly felt. Why did not you show up in the playoffs? Because when the club has a pronounced first number with a big contract, then it will play. Remember how last year Koskinen was injured, and Shestyorkin played with "Locomotive" two matches, and then began the final with "Magnitogorsk". But nevertheless finished the series anyway Koskinen. People signed to number one, should play. The situation in the club was very difficult. Shestyorkin coped with his work, he could continue playing, but Mikko raised the cup.
Sorokin went ahead and developed, but, unfortunately, at some point noticed that there was a stop in development, there was a little passive hockey in his performance.
Today it is, but in the future, maybe he is right.Kotkaniemi that low is aburd, especially below guys like Veleno
But the same can be said of any prospect reallyToday it is, but in the future, maybe he is right.
Right after the 2014 draft, imagine someone putting Pasternak(#25) above Dal Colle(#5) or Virtanen(#6).
Sure it's bold to say today, but long term is where it will determine if he is right or not.
Imagine right after the 2015 draft, someone putting Draisatl at #1, Eichel at #2 and McDavid at #3.Today it is, but in the future, maybe he is right.
Right after the 2014 draft, imagine someone putting Pasternak(#25) above Dal Colle(#5) or Virtanen(#6).
Sure it's bold to say today, but long term is where it will determine if he is right or not.
Its pretty muxh 100% the same thing and its f***ing ridiculous.Imagine right after the 2015 draft, someone putting Draisatl at #1, Eichel at #2 and McDavid at #3.
He’s no longer eligible for the Calder. Played more than 6 games in 2 different seasons.
"To be eligible for the award, a player cannot have played more than 25 games in any single preceding season nor in six or more games in each of any two preceding seasons in any major professional league. "
From the definition, it sounds like he'd have to have played 6 or more games in the two seasons prior to him playing in the NHL full time. So if the season in question is 2018-19 to determine if he's Calder eligible, then he couldn't have played in 6 or more games in 2017-18 (1st preceding season) and 2016-17 (2nd preceding season).
But the thing is, Sprong didn't play professional in 2016-17, which would be part of the "any of two preceding seasons" criteria. He played 18 games in 2015-16 (three years ago), was sent back to junior for the 2016-17 season, then played in the AHL in 2017-18.
So unless I'm misunderstanding the wording of "in each of any two preceding seasons", he should be eligible because he didn't play any professional games in 2016-17.
Why are you acting so abrasive? You start a new thread with a link to your work. Do you not want feedback? Do you not anticipate where some will disagree? I'm sure you know that your opinion is different from the consensus here, so you shouldn't be trying to go after someone on non-content related grounds who questions your opinion.
Besides, you very well know I watch the different European leagues, junior hockey, college hockey, junior international hockey. I frankly have no reason to try to watch Nedeljkovic. I've not seen anyone else rank him especially high. I think the Carolina fans claimed they had him as their 15th best prospect. Your colleagues Craig Button, Corey Pronman and Chris Peters all have the same five goalies in their most recent top 5 goalie prospect lists. Pronman and Peters had extended lists. Pronman had 20+ listed, Peters had 15 listed. Neither had Nedeljkovic listed. Button only listed his top 5. By all means, you are allowed your opinion, and I think most here respect your opinion, but when you go far off the consensus, I don't think its unrealistic to ask why without being attacked for questioning your rankings.
And just on the substance of this discussion, I don't now if you are aware, but the Russian National Team goaltender coach said Shestyorkin is a better prospect than Sorokin. He didn't even really discuss Samsonov, as he's not on his radar yet, which at the very least should speak to current ability of the goalies. Here's part of his quote from a larger interview.
«Шестёркин с Канадой – правильное решение». Вся правда о вратарях России
Here's a goalie magazine that compares Shestyorkin and Sorokin. It says Shestyorkin is a safer bet. Sorokin vs Shestyorkin: A Style Comparison - InGoal Magazine
I also don't get your comment that Shestyorkin isn't athletic. I've never heard that listed as a criticism of him. I think I've read just about everything claimed, but athleticism? Never heard that one. The link I posted above doesn't seem to think so. Even if he was less athletic than Samsonov and Sorokin, does that make him an un-athletic goalie? Samsonov is the most athletic goalie prospect in the game and Sorokin is probably #2. In fact, I'd like to know who would be the third most athletic before Shestyorkin. Others you have high like Hart or Demko certainly aren't more athletic. They are less athletic.
I don't understand people saying too high on EP. He destroyed a pro league at 18. Who's better and did better than him for the 1st spot?
Also where is Lias Andersson?
Kostin at 22 and Kyrou at 48?
Even outside of the Blues fan board. There is ZERO to indicate Kostin is ahead of Kyrou. Blues management hasn't indicated this in any way. Those who watched both on the ice at the same time during summer camp hasn't indicated it either. From all sources outside of AHL points > Junior points....there is nothing to back this opinionThere is a lot of weird stuff on this list, but yeah, as a Blues fan, this is a weird one. For perspective, the Blues HFboard on their prospect rating had Kyrou as our No.2 with 87 percent of the vote, but Kostin finished 4th barely over Bokk at 53%
Oh c'mon man would you really be here defending Shestyorkin if you weren't a rangers fan? The Samsonov Shest. Sorokin debate is very close, to complain that the ranger goalie is ranked the lowest in this poll is a little silly.Why should it matter what team I'm a fan of? I'm not quibbling the top couple rankings about the players on my team. I'm disagreeing with a serious oversight, in my opinion. Should I also say I disagree with your Dahlin placement? I'm no Sabres fan. You should've anticipated people disagreeing with your controversial rankings. Are you really going to push back at disagreement by mentioning what team they are a fan of? That should have nothing to do with this.
Would you have Shestyorkin higher if he played on some bad AHL team and was the first keeper with bad stats? Will he get bumped up in about a month when he's slated to become the #1? If you are to be consistent, he should. Its also worth mentioning that the goalie coach of his own team, the same team he wasn't the #1 on, said he was the best goalie in the league during the time he wasn't the #1. But lets completely ignore contract status, and act like there's some serious question if he could be the #1. You are also wrong that he's never played for a weak team. He's played for a good team the last two years. In the MHL and VHL, he never played on a team that was anywhere near as good relative to their competition as SKA is now. Before he transferred to SKA, he wasn't playing with a great team at Spartak Moscow.
And you know what, when has Samsonov been the #1 on his team? When has he played for a bad team? He hasn't. Sorokin hasn't played for a bad team for even longer than Shestyorkin hasn't. It just seems a very inconsistent process you are using here. I don't quibble with your rankings, but I think this is a serious oversight. I've got nothing against Nedeljkovic. Admittedly I haven't watched him play since the WJC, but those stats don't make me think he's better than top flight goalie prospects. I wasn't trying to take a stand against him. He very well may be a decent mid-tier goalie prospect. Saying he has a better chance at being a #1 than Shestyorkin is ludicrous, in my opinion. If he gets to the NHL quicker, it'll be because of Carolina's lack of depth. I'm not even sure that prediction will be right. Shestyorkin will likely be in the NHL to start 2019-20.