Value of: Soucy (SEA), Graves (NJ) and Gavrikov (CBJ)

[I3LI3]

as my fellow cbj posters have stated before me in this thread, jarmo ends the call the second ‘Gavrikov’ is mentioned.

 

[Jovavic]

We also have some Russian kids coming over the next few seasons and Gavrikov would be a key in getting them settled in

 

[Nocashstyle]

Glad to hear he's playing well for NJ, seems like he's a lot better fit there than he was with the Avs.

He made some boneheaded mistakes during his time with the Avs and we couldn't afford him anyways, but he got better every year, wouldn't be surprised if he was a late bloomer.

He’s definitely still prone to some boneheaded plays, but his good definitely outweighs his mistakes. I know it’s not saying much, but he’s been one of the steadiest Dmen the Devils have had in years.

 

[Blackjack]

The Devils fans in here that wouldn't trade Graves for a 1st are out to lunch.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

The Devils fans in here that wouldn't trade Graves for a 1st are out to lunch.

Who would replace him in the lineup? Or how would you fix the defence if Graves is traded away? Smith, Siegenthaler and Okhotiuk or Bahl. Sounds pretty terrible.

 

[Blackjack]

Who would replace him in the lineup? Or how would you fix the defence if Graves is traded away? Smith, Siegenthaler and Okhotiuk or Bahl. Sounds pretty terrible.

We are terrible now. I don't understand what we're salvaging here. Graves is fine, nothing special. The 1st could turn out to be nothing, but it could end up being an impact player, which Graves will never be.

 

[TBF1972]

Who would replace him in the lineup? Or how would you fix the defence if Graves is traded away? Smith, Siegenthaler and Okhotiuk or Bahl. Sounds pretty terrible.

short term it would be a definite set back. this would be a deadline move with the devils clearly out of the po picture.

i would love to see okhotyuk grow into dougie's defensive partner down the road. good skater. physical with a nasty streak. he could be a good partner for an aging dougie.

 

[Blackjack]

short term it would be a definite set back. this would be a deadline move with the devils clearly out of the po picture.

i would love to see okhotyuk grow into dougie's defensive partner down the road. good skater. physical with a nasty streak. he could be a good partner for an aging dougie.

I didn't see the games, but I heard Colton White looked fine subbing in for Smith. Replacing Graves's minutes for the rest of the season is not a big challenge if you are getting an asset like a 1st round pick for him.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

All these players are in the middle of their prime, you still need players to eat minutes to help the players develop and build a winning culture. It shouldn't be too hard to remember how long it took Florida to get out of that hole, and it definitely doesn't help by selling off these types of players.

If any of them have no interest in re-signing with their team i'm sure they'll consider trading them at some point next year as opposed to losing them for nothing, but Soucy is the only one I can see being remotely available. Also, Gio will be sold at the TDL, and most likely garner more than Soucy would because he brings a 'vet presence'.

The bolded part was addressed in my original post a bit but this is the big factor, will those players simply chase money and a bigger role or less cash and a smaller role on a team ready to win.

Totally understand your first point, I agree with it. That's why I feel NJ or CBJ are still years away from contending and trading away guys like these doesn't help but will they be there when those teams are competing?

Gio will be gone at the TDL, IMO, unless we're going on an insane run and get into playoff contention.
He stated even before the season that winning the cup is the only reason he's still playing and that won't happen with uns before his early 40's.
Could see us retaining up to 50% on him given that Francis has the green light to spend by the ownership group.

My guess is that Gio, Jarnkrok, Blackwell and Johansson(all UFA's) are the main guys available with a couple of other guys(could includ Soucy) being available for the right price as well.

Ya Francis needs to recoup some assets for these next 2 drafts as they lack the high end skill to build around.
They have good players but need great ones who are typically drafted or signed in free agency which is way more rare.

 

[kerrabria]

I think people are underestimating 1sts…. Last year they flew around a little more liberally cause there was so little opportunity for scouting in the pandemic the draft was kind of a crapshoot, but this being an (almost) “normal” year I think you will see teams hold them a little tighter

Fans overestimate 1sts. Pretty much every single player that you'd be interested in trading for has reached a level that you'd probably be happy with that 1st Round prospect developing into a few years down the road. I.e., if you're exchanging a non-lottery 1st Round Pick for a top 9 forward or top 4 d-man who is under contract for at least one more year, it's probably a good trade. In any given first round, only like half of the players reach that top 9/top 4 impact player status. And you either need to be picking top 5 or hit a rare jackpot to wind up with a player who becomes a first line forward or top pair D within five years of being drafted.

 

[AslanRH]

NJ should hold onto Graves. He's not blocking anyone and has been a very good fit.

He turned into the HFAvs punching bag, but he was overall solid for them. In a non-cap, non-expansion league he'd still be there ahead of Murray and JJ, much less the face puncher and MacDonald

 

[McDuffz88]

The Devils fans in here that wouldn't trade Graves for a 1st are out to lunch.

Yeah what a great way to move towards being a playoff team. That's by trading away your good players in their prime or about to be in their prime for more draft picks when your already the youngest team in the nhl....real smart. We already got boatload of high profile prospects. What we need is to add/keep players who are in their primes not accumulate more draft picks while being near bottom of the league. Talk about a loser mentality. Good thing you ain't a GM or we would be looking like Arizona.

 

[Blackjack]

We already got boatload of high profile prospects.

We have one: Luke Hughes

 

[McDuffz88]

We have one: Luke Hughes

Luke Hughes, Alexander Holtz, Shakir Mukhamadullin and we just had the emergence of Mercer in his rookie year whose outplaying his draft position. That's 4 high profile prospects who have been added or about to be added in the past 2 years alone. 3 of these players have yet to play in the NHL.

 

[Blackjack]

Luke Hughes, Alexander Holtz, Shakir Mukhamadullin and we just had the emergence of Mercer in his rookie year whose outplaying his draft position. That's 4 high profile prospects who have been added or about to be added in the past 2 years alone. 3 of these players have yet to play in the NHL.

Holtz didn't make the team in D+2 season, it's time to adjust expectations down for him. Mukhamadullin - here's the list of star defensemen that came from the KHL: the end. Mercer is not a prospect, he is in the NHL.

Hughes is the only prospect that I would consider to be a blue chip prospect.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Holtz didn't make the team in D+2 season, it's time to adjust expectations down for him. Mukhamadullin - here's the list of star defensemen that came from the KHL: the end. Mercer is not a prospect, he is in the NHL.

Hughes is the only prospect that I would consider to be a blue chip prospect.

He didn’t make the NHL as a 19 year old so time to write him off as a pedestrian NHL long shot

 

[McDuffz88]

Holtz didn't make the team in D+2 season, it's time to adjust expectations down for him. Mukhamadullin - here's the list of star defensemen that came from the KHL: the end. Mercer is not a prospect, he is in the NHL.

Hughes is the only prospect that I would consider to be a blue chip prospect.

Way to pick & choose what a high end prospect is. Yeah let's write off Holtz who got drafted 7th overall because he didn't make the team after 6 games played on his 1st NHL trial...what a bust am I right? Let's also just write off Shakir because he's Russian? Let's just completely ignore all the progress he made as a prospect because of where he was born. I guess according to your definition if a prospect doesn't break out into the league & dominate in his first NHL trial he's a bust & a let down. I guess we should also never draft Russians because according to history it never works out....

 

[Chayos]

Barrie and a 2nd for Soucy and Appleton?

 

[Forge]

Glad to hear he's playing well for NJ, seems like he's a lot better fit there than he was with the Avs.

He made some boneheaded mistakes during his time with the Avs and we couldn't afford him anyways, but he got better every year, wouldn't be surprised if he was a late bloomer.

He's hit some bumps since an injury a few weeks back. I think he's playing a little banged up. But he was awesome earlier in the year and I think Devils fans are very happy with the move thus far.

 

[ViD]

here's the list of star defensemen that came from the KHL: the end.

Giordano

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Barrie and a 2nd for Soucy and Appleton?

We already have an offensive defensmen and his name is Vince Dunn.

There's absolutely no need for Barrie and his contract, let alone trading two usefull pieces for him.

 

[Guttersniped]

Mukhamadullin - here's the list of star defensemen that came from the KHL: the end..

Sergei Zubov, Andrei Markov, Sergei Gonchar, more recently Dmitri Orlov.

I didn't see the games, but I heard Colton White looked fine subbing in for Smith. Replacing Graves's minutes for the rest of the season is not a big challenge if you are getting an asset like a 1st round pick for him.

Graves leads the team in PK time and he’s second after Hamilton in 5v5 TOI/GP and you’re talking about White, who had ~13 minutes ATOI in 6 GP?
Smith averages almost 16 minutes of 5v5 ice time, he plays a lot more than White did.

Graves isn’t particularly that spectacular on the PK but those minutes aren’t easy to replace. “We suck, who cares” isn’t likely going to be Fitz’s approach so he isn’t going to trade Graves after just getting him. Next season matters too.

 

[Blackjack]

Sergei Zubov, Andrei Markov, Sergei Gonchar, more recently Dmitri Orlov.

I like Mukhamadullin, and I don't think that just because the KHL doesn't have a good history of producing star defensemen, he can't be one. I just wouldn't consider him a blue chip like a Sanderson, Power, or Hughes.

Graves leads the team in PK time and he’s second after Hamilton in 5v5 TOI/GP and you’re talking about White, who had ~13 minutes ATOI in 6 GP?
Smith averages almost 16 minutes of 5v5 ice time, he plays a lot more than White did.

Graves isn’t particularly that spectacular on the PK but those minutes aren’t easy to replace. “We suck, who cares” isn’t likely going to be Fitz’s approach so he isn’t going to trade Graves after just getting him. Next season matters too.

Yeah, I agree, I don't think Fitz would move him for a first for the reasons you're describing. I still think it's an obviously correct move for a team that's starved for talent.