Sooooo how about Evan Bouchard's defense last night

[Czechboy]

Bouchard is garbage in his own zone, and Ekholm is the legitimate 1D for that pairing.

They're both legitimate 1D. Very different styles.

 

[kerrabria]

They're both legitimate 1D. Very different styles.

I reject the idea that you can be unreliable in your own zone (let alone as bad as Bouchard) and be considered a 1D.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

And he wants, what, $9M? Lol Edmonton is screwed

I believe his ask was $11M.

 

[Czechboy]

I reject the idea that you can be unreliable in your own zone (let alone as bad as Bouchard) and be considered a 1D.

You can reject it all you want but if he gets traded he'll be on first pair there too. He has been first pair his entire career. For the Knights when he won Dman of the year for the OHL. For the AHL team. For Team Canada at the Jr's. For the SEL team during lockout. And now on the AHL team. That's why he was a first rounder.

He has over 100 points in his last 100 games and is over .ppg in playoffs. He's a RHD that hovers at 1 .ppg. His hilariously bad gaffes are funny but they happen far less than people think.

So I'm happy to agree to disagree.

 

[TheUnusedCrayon]

Nothing abnormal this season or from last season. The guy just doesn't care defensively.

He's regressed back to beginning of last season. He at least had this happen fewer games in the 2nd half of last season but he's not building off of anything. The guy is horrific to watch in his own end.

 

[TheUnusedCrayon]

The saddest part is he has half a zone's worth of jump on McCann and somehow ends up ten feet behind him because he just gives up.

 

[DearDiary]

Not sure we needed a thread to announce that Bouchard had a rough gane. This just in: It happens to all players, including hall of famers.

By the aggregate of stats, Bouchard is a top-20 defenceman in the League this year, and I don't think he's been nearly as good as last year. His upside is huge.

As with all high-risk, high-reward players, there are going to be nights when he looks bad. It's just the nature of it.

Except Bouchards poor play isn't due to high risk plays, it's poor reads and just being lazy. If you look at the other video where he ducks Matthews, right afterwards he isn't even in a position to defend. He's gliding while upright and his stick is nowhere near in a position to do anything. Meanwhile, other offensive Dmen like Karlsson or Makar would have panicked over their mistake and chased after the play. Not put a lawn chair down to admire the puck.

 

[The Panther]

Except Bouchards poor play isn't due to high risk plays, it's poor reads and just being lazy. If you look at the other video where he ducks Matthews, right afterwards he isn't even in a position to defend. He's gliding while upright and his stick is nowhere near in a position to do anything. Meanwhile, other offensive Dmen like Karlsson or Makar would have panicked over their mistake and chased after the play. Not put a lawn chair down to admire the puck.

Bouchard is often accused of "looking" (or being) lazy on the ice. He just has a nonchalant way of dealing with certain situations, which is kind of unusual. It's just the way he is.

Yes, he makes mistakes sometimes. He's also quite good most of the time, and is massively improved, defensively, from a couple of years ago. He works very well in pairing with Ekholm.

Makar is currently -6 and Karlsson -8 (Bouchard is +2), so I don't know if they're the current gold standard. Anyway, panicking isn't really an impressive reaction on the ice.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Eh, bad days, bad seasons, bad careers happen. He's still totally worthy 11M a year.

Frankly, the Oilers should get him signed asap before that number rises even higher

 

[archangel2]

Oilers are going to give him a 8 year 80 mill contract in the off season

 

[benfranklin]

Bouchard 5on5 corsi 63.87%, fenwick 62.28%, xGF 63.05%, HDCF 65.08%, and fantastic drive from defensive zone to the offensive zone.

"Horrendous defensively" somehow has some of the best advanced stats in all of NHL.

This should tell us a lot about advanced stats for defensemen. He blows away everyone, but also EDM and CAR for example, their entire team have insane advanced stats. That tells me its more about their system than actual individual gameplay. Carolinas low from last season and this is Kuznetsov with 53.17 CF%. The low!

Here is the top 50 from last season to today with 1500+ min played.

Ekholm and Bouchard have advanced stats on par with Hughes, our reigning Norris winner. What is more likely? They are amazing defensively or their forward core insanely skews their advanced stats?

Player	Team	Position	GP	TOI	CF%	FF%	SF%	GF	GA	GF%	HDCF%	Off. Zone Starts	Neu. Zone Starts	Def. Zone Starts	Off. Zone Start %	Off. Zone Faceoff %
Mattias Ekholm	EDM	D	97	1704.83	60.96	60.81	60.89	106	63	62.72	63.71	272	303	197	58	60.84
Evan Bouchard	EDM	D	99	1804.80	60.78	60.7	60.86	109	71	60.56	63.79	280	319	193	59.2	61.66
Dmitry Orlov	CAR	D	99	1555.10	59.94	59.7	57	73	52	58.4	55.09	205	324	142	59.08	57.91
Brent Burns	CAR	D	99	1553.72	59.89	58.59	56.9	79	58	57.66	59.45	225	290	182	55.28	54.73
Jaccob Slavin	CAR	D	98	1668.18	59.86	58.81	56.64	78	64	54.93	58.35	225	310	178	55.83	55.9
Quinn Hughes	VAN	D	98	1857.75	58.08	55.93	54.42	109	65	62.64	55	279	312	187	59.87	61.97
Gustav Forsling	FLA	D	97	1679.97	57.12	55.03	55.04	88	46	65.67	58.15	207	348	219	48.59	49.76
Brady Skjei	CAR, NSH	D	98	1654.27	57.11	55.63	53.05	59	65	47.58	52.83	250	315	191	56.69	56.17
Miro Heiskanen	DAL	D	87	1668.52	56.47	55.57	55.78	84	70	54.55	58.49	293	322	219	57.23	58.76
Thomas Harley	DAL	D	95	1695.22	55.67	55.37	56.61	94	61	60.65	55.99	257	334	206	55.51	57.89
Sean Walker	CAR, COL, PHI	D	98	1537.05	55.09	56.77	56.71	80	65	55.17	55.47	185	285	192	49.07	52.38
Drew Doughty	L.A	D	82	1554.58	54.67	55.64	55.75	60	44	57.69	53.6	156	321	228	40.63	49.4
Filip Hronek	VAN	D	97	1798.90	54.63	52.39	50.87	102	63	61.82	51.44	286	345	203	58.49	58.92
Luke Hughes	N.J	D	94	1572.48	54.63	52.34	52.37	53	60	46.9	50.17	233	313	193	54.69	58.44
Rasmus Dahlin	BUF	D	99	1940.20	54.55	54.57	55.22	81	78	50.94	51.03	335	463	279	54.56	57.01
Erik Karlsson	PIT	D	102	1954.97	54.32	53.18	54.07	95	93	50.53	56.98	275	373	255	51.89	53.39
Vladislav Gavrikov	L.A	D	96	1674.07	54.15	55.83	56.17	79	64	55.24	55.9	166	291	216	43.46	48.54
Roman Josi	NSH	D	100	1866.05	54.05	54.23	53.04	91	81	52.91	54.27	337	299	162	67.54	64.64
MacKenzie Weegar	CGY	D	100	1768.03	53.59	53.73	52.84	76	74	50.67	49.46	228	372	276	45.24	52.84
Devon Toews	COL	D	96	1729.87	53.46	52.91	53.29	85	72	54.14	53.83	356	374	206	63.35	61.56
Niko Mikkola	FLA	D	100	1708.30	53.46	51.58	52.31	68	66	50.75	50.83	260	389	226	53.5	54.53
Mikey Anderson	L.A	D	93	1650.53	53.31	54.35	54.69	67	46	59.29	51.19	154	375	233	39.79	48.15
Cale Makar	COL	D	95	1608.93	53.24	52.85	53.42	85	78	52.15	53.86	416	364	176	70.27	65.36
Marcus Pettersson	PIT	D	102	1936.00	53.11	52.54	53.25	108	95	53.2	54.9	226	411	266	45.93	48.78
Matt Roy	L.A, WSH	D	88	1507.90	53.04	54.73	55.05	71	55	56.35	56.25	145	282	192	43.03	49.09
Jake Sanderson	OTT	D	96	1560.47	52.91	53.67	53.18	63	69	47.73	51.44	199	369	222	47.27	49.48
Darnell Nurse	EDM	D	99	1732.30	52.62	51.98	51.59	69	70	49.64	55.51	229	371	213	51.81	50
Ryan McDonagh	NSH, T.B	D	90	1525.62	52.42	52.77	51.72	65	49	57.02	59.66	180	332	178	50.28	52.68
Victor Hedman	T.B	D	94	1632.55	52.15	52.01	50.63	88	67	56.77	53.85	234	273	185	55.85	57.12
Josh Morrissey	WPG	D	99	1960.43	51.94	52.35	52.21	94	58	61.84	50.66	348	358	240	59.18	60.56
Owen Power	BUF	D	94	1687.93	51.7	50.8	49.88	89	77	53.61	45.64	262	288	231	53.14	53.96
Chris Tanev	CGY, DAL, TOR	D	94	1526.55	51.6	53.65	54.4	65	55	54.17	54.3	153	378	280	35.33	40.67
Jake McCabe	TOR	D	92	1586.58	51.32	51.79	52.74	78	59	56.93	54.99	154	353	250	38.12	44.71
Kris Letang	PIT	D	100	1859.70	51.12	50.45	50.35	88	89	49.72	50	269	443	228	54.12	53.36
Adam Larsson	SEA	D	99	1822.45	50.97	48.12	48.13	70	61	53.44	48.18	272	393	215	55.85	57.52
Hampus Lindholm	BOS	D	90	1542.52	50.59	50.38	50.93	65	48	57.52	52.87	164	296	293	35.89	41.59
Cam York	PHI	D	89	1530.98	50.57	52.8	53.89	57	78	42.22	53.06	214	409	215	49.88	53.17
Ryan Suter	DAL, STL	D	101	1772.20	50.49	49.86	49.56	80	77	50.96	53.39	207	346	232	47.15	47.36
Travis Sanheim	PHI	D	99	1832.03	50.49	52.55	52.87	73	95	43.45	54.18	234	481	257	47.66	52.16
Esa Lindell	DAL	D	98	1598.25	50.33	51.63	52.62	73	64	53.28	56.03	127	337	244	34.23	39.89
Noah Hanifin	CGY, VGK	D	98	1776.55	50.22	51.15	51.78	90	80	52.94	50.6	224	406	272	45.16	48.26
Zach Werenski	CBJ	D	87	1675.60	49.97	49.34	48.8	95	80	54.29	45.69	246	349	213	53.59	54.83
Dylan DeMelo	WPG	D	100	1848.35	49.95	50.13	50.03	93	56	62.42	50.28	341	365	251	57.6	57.47
Morgan Rielly	TOR	D	91	1690.38	49.76	49.46	50.76	90	79	53.25	51.53	314	353	212	59.7	56.67
Jakob Chychrun	OTT, WSH	D	94	1723.45	49.76	50.36	50	76	93	44.97	46.69	175	264	166	51.32	53.15
Jeremy Lauzon	NSH	D	97	1501.43	49.72	49.71	49.38	48	68	41.38	50.95	110	337	218	33.54	37.1
Noah Dobson	NYI	D	97	1859.90	49.69	50.47	50.89	84	65	56.38	51.34	222	304	240	48.05	51.26
Neal Pionk	WPG	D	100	1674.32	49.63	49.51	49.54	76	67	53.15	48.21	221	350	257	46.23	46.3
J.J. Moser	ARI, T.B	D	96	1590.82	49.53	48.58	46.7	69	71	49.29	49.01	176	388	270	39.46	44.95

 

[benfranklin]

Never forget, Tyson Barrie was a 72 point pace player running that PP.

 

[MikeyMike01]

This should result in a healthy scratch. One of the most embarrassing lack of effort plays I’ve ever seen.

 

[Enniskillen]

He is a legit offensive D and should get 11 million reasons to play hockey in Edmonton.

 

[Mattb124]

He made a good defensive play on the first goal to gain possession before making a horrendous give-away. Weird that the OP doesn’t know the difference.

Clearly expected the goalie to come out and play the puck in the second one, but failed on the communication/execution.

Neither are good examples to denigrate his defensive prowess.

 

[Czechboy]

in Edmonton.

This was the best part of your post.lol

 

[Enniskillen]

This was the best part of your post.lol

You’ve been there right?

 

[HugginThePost]

Definitely has some bad moments that's for sure. On aggregate, he still is a huge positive. Play is consistently in the other end and heavily favors the Oilers when he's on the ice.

Without looking it up, I'd say this has a lot to do with who he's on the ice with the majority of the time, no?

Any D'Man is going to look good if you're playing the bulk of your time with the most offensively gifted player of a generation.

It would be interesting to see his splits with and without McDavid.

EDIT: I should have read the entire thread before posting, got my answer.

 

[Shocker]

As a neutral, that first goal pisses me off more, completely unforced error after the play was already under wraps

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

2nd goal is one of the worst controller disconnects in recent memory

Does Sergei Kostitsyn count? That's easily the worst I've seen, this is right below it.

 

[The Macho King]

It feels weird that the Oilers are about to do the same thing they did with Nurse with Bouchard. Oh the guy who plays with McDavid a lot has good stats? Probably don't need to look into that any more than that.

 

[JPT]

That's right up there with Ovie's controller disconnect, good lord

Bouchard's is worse imo. At least Ovechkin can use the excuse that he's a winger and his responsibility is covering the point, even if he should have made the effort to cover for the defense there.

 

[PaulD]

I’ve given him grief in the past for being below average defensively, but he’s usually serviceable and can provide offense to make up for it.

That is some piss poor effort by him though. You cost your team big time doing crap like that.

Practically mirrors his efforts in the Oilers Knights game a couple weeks ago. Bouchard cost his team that game too.
Oilers can't make the mistake of over paying this one dimensional dman.
He racks up a ton of points with his big shot and playing on the powerplay with McDrais. 7 mill a year.
They already over paid Nurse.

 

[JPT]

very concerning

The level of concern here at HF is nearly unmatched.

 

[v00d00daddy]

The second one is funny because he skates the fastest right after the goal

Haha yup. It’s because he didn’t even know it had gone in. He went from being able to win the battle to acting like he was heading to break the other way for a scoring chance