Sony PS5 2

[x Tame Impala]

it cost 400 million for THAT? That type of wasteful spending would make government officials/departments blush with envy.

I thought Spider-Man 2 being over 300 was absurd. Not a bad game by any means, but my thought playing through it was "man this really cost that much? it feels too similar." That's even worse.

This entire damn industry needs a wakeup call. There's so many studios/devs out there doing way more, with way less. Astro Bot probably cost a fraction of that to make but got universal acclaim from both critics and users for being what a video game should be; fun.

Gamers and especially PC gamers need to chill the hell out over graphics and FPS. I'm on a soapbox about this for sure but I can't imagine how it doesn't stall and drag out development to try and squeeze all the game mechanics into a system that's already near max potential because of trying to crank out ultra-realistic graphics.

Make games more fun. They don't need to look stunning.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Gamers and especially PC gamers need to chill the hell out over graphics and FPS. I'm on a soapbox about this for sure but I can't imagine how it doesn't stall and drag out development to try and squeeze all the game mechanics into a system that's already near max potential because of trying to crank out ultra-realistic graphics.

Make games more fun. They don't need to look stunning.

I fully agree. There's a great case to be made for art design > graphics and i think there's no better example to look at than Nintendo.

They've been running on underpowered hardware for decades at this point, but no one gives a shit because they probably understand better than most how to weaponize art design to cover for perceived graphical shortcomings. Mario Odyssey is probably the best looking Mario game to date. Vibrant, brightly colored landscapes with eye catching stuff in the environment that makes everything pop right down to Mario himself. Both Switch Zelda games look gorgeous using a similar philosophy. That's also the reason why most of Nintendo's back catalog, even right down to the older Super Nintendo stuff holds up.

Other games (mostly Japanese) have been doing this for a while too. the Yakuza devs are probably the most shameless assets recyclers in the business to the point their games have looked almost the same since the PS3 era but once again, no one cares because the games have usually engaging stories and gameplay ranging from great, to goofy fun. Then there's anything with an anime inspiried art style like Granblue, Persona, etc.

I'd go as far to say it's this, and other reasons are why the Japanese game industry is currently dancing circles around the North American contingent outside of basically Playstation studios. Fun comes first instead of stupid shit like HYPER REALISTIC EYELASHES

 

[PeteWorrell]

I believe that there is a creativity problem in parts of the industry and i think it has to do with the work conditions. Employees are being crunched to death and many talented people quit after the game is done.

Too many executives don't understand that you need talented people to make good games and they think that people quitting in masses is no big deal. That every employee is just another cog in the machine and that they are easily replaced. That's how we end up with something like Concord.

Japanese developers don't really face that problem since the employees are conditioned to accept their notoriously brutal work culture and being crunched is just another day at work. That makes them less likely to lose talent unlike western developers.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I believe that there is a creativity problem in parts of the industry and i think it has to do with the work conditions. Employees are being crunched to death and many talented people quit after the game is done.

Too many executives don't understand that you need talented people to make good games and they think that people quitting in masses is no big deal. That every employee is just another cog in the machine and that they are easily replaced. That's how we end up with something like Concord.

Japanese developers don't really face that problem since the employees are conditioned to accept their notoriously brutal work culture and being crunched is just another day at work. That makes them less likely to lose talent unlike western developers.

To be fair we're not in the studio working with these devs. Not declaring anything here but what I tend to gather from general internet discourse has taught me anything there may be a non-insignificant amount of devs with poor work ethics, unable to meet demands and deadlines, unable to take direction and corrections, etc...

Maybe that plays some part in it as well. I can't say for certain and it's really just based on spending too much time on Reddit this past year and watching a few Timothy Cain videos about the industry.

Point being I wouldn't put it entirely on crunch and unruly studio higher-ups. I'm sure it's a combo of both. Maybe Japanese developers have accepted and embrace the fact that developing videogames requires a crazy amount of effort and focus, usually in a short time-span. It just goes with the territory of making something incredible. Maybe there's a clash with expectations of studios trying to get games out in a specific time and developers not wanting to work more than 40 hours a week in order to make it happen.

As I've mentioned before I'm sure there's a "too many cooks in the kitchen" aspect here that is a major culprit as well. How can these studios have hundreds (thousands?) of people on their team and still have these games take 6+ years to finish. It's not like they're all pumping out masterpieces like RDR2 on a constant basis either so I'm not sure what happens.

 

[PeteWorrell]

Ngl I’m actually skeptical about the $400 million number but I didn’t realize this. Ragnarok and Forbidden West each have $200 million budgets and roughly 30 minute long credits, it makes me kind of believe the meme

https://x.com/i/web/status/1837213812522430780

Honestly, i have no idea where the $400 million went for Concord. It's not a technical marvel or a massive game. It's just a hero shooter with ugly characters.

Sony might just need to investigate what happened. It feels like some people embezzled funds and cooked the books while pretending that it was all money going towards making the game.

 

[Mikeaveli]

I don't think graphics are the problem with games, it's the massive scope of these AAA projects. Look at Alan Wake 2 and Cyberpunk 2077, probably the two best looking games out right now.

Alan Wake cost ~80 million USD including development and marketing. That's a relatively small budget for a AAA game these days, less than half of Spider-Man 2 or Horizon Forbidden West. Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart also had a similar budget and looks gorgeous.

Then consider that Cyberpunk 2077 cost ~450 million USD.

You can have good looking, technically advanced single player games coming out at a decent budget. They just can't also feature 70+ hours of content in a massive open world.

As for Concord, $400 million seems like a lot but when you add up 4-5 years of salary for the 150 employees at Firewalk, the salaries for the employees at support studios who worked on the game (XDev, Bungie, Haven Studios, Nixxes Software, Valkyrie Entertainment, Jetpack Interactive), all the artists who were contracted to make assets, the expensive prerendered cutscenes, QA, marketing, etc., it might not be far off.

 

[syz]

Concord was rumored to be in development for 8 years. Even if it went smoothly (which it sounds like it did not) 8 years of costs are going to add up.

Also Japan definitely also has a burnout problem but the reality is the gaming industry out there is generally not working on large scale projects like this anymore, outside of like, Square (even as they continue to deem every game they release a financial failure).

 

[PeteWorrell]

Japanese developers save on costs by often going for more cartoon/anime graphics. They don't need to think as much about characters proportions and the uncanny valley effect. That's how many niche Japanese series are financially viable.

Games like Concord and Star Wars Outlaws cost a ton of money and they were heavily criticized because they have unappealing characters. People are much more lenient with more cartoonish designs.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Japanese developers save on costs by often going for more cartoon/anime graphics. They don't need to think as much about characters proportions and the uncanny valley effect. That's how many niche Japanese series are financially viable.

Games like Concord and Star Wars Outlaws cost a ton of money and they were heavily criticized because they have unappealing characters. People are much more lenient with more cartoonish designs.

Outlaws is such a botch on Ubisoft's part. The facial model for the main character is a legit stunner in real life. For her to end up looking like that is...oof. The hairdo i can at least get as sort of a tribute to that 70's star wars look but the rest? brutal.

 

[PeteWorrell]

Outlaws is such a botch on Ubisoft's part. The facial model for the main character is a legit stunner in real life. For her to end up looking like that is...oof. The hairdo i can at least get as sort of a tribute to that 70's star wars look but the rest? brutal.

I had no idea that the character was based on an actual human being. It felt like it was someone's creation and that they wanted to make them more "relatable". Making an actual person uglier on purpose really is a slap to the face.

 

[robertmac43]

State of play tomorrow!

 

[aleshemsky83]

Japanese developers save on costs by often going for more cartoon/anime graphics. They don't need to think as much about characters proportions and the uncanny valley effect. That's how many niche Japanese series are financially viable.

Games like Concord and Star Wars Outlaws cost a ton of money and they were heavily criticized because they have unappealing characters. People are much more lenient with more cartoonish designs.

Gonna have to call fake news on this one. Kojimas been face scanning actors for over a decade and they all look fine and not anime. Capcoms been doing the same. I really think there are weirdos in charge of western game studios that think making a character not ugly is “sexualizing” them, even if they’re literally face scanning supermodels.