Someones Unpopular Martin Broduer Opinion

[Embryo]

I know this isn't the Devils forum, I am a Rangers fan and always post here, and considering Martin Brodeur is one of our all time greatest rivals and that if I post it on the Devils forums I'll get banned for trolling, I consider it appropriate that this be posted here. What are your thoughts? The argument is that Broduer played in an era when there were the least amount of shots on goal in NHL history basically, was on a completely defensive minded "trap" team, and that his stats are incredibly inflated.


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[Amazing Kreiderman]

Even as a Rangers fan I can appreciate the performance and achievement of a player on our rival teams. Brodeur, while benefitiing from great defense for a large part of his career, has had a HOF career

 

[pld459666]

Dude stopped a whole hell of a lot of the pucks he saw.

I'm not going to take a steaming dump on him because of the style of the game at the time.

Can't change the validation of the numbers because the game is different today.

He was a great goalie regardless of the era

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

He was was one of the greatest all time. Only beef I have is when Devils fans want to call him the GOAT, as I think there were a few guys who were better. Which most non-Devils fans agree with anyway so its not really that much of an unpopular opinion.

 

[Crease]

He's easily in the top five goaltenders all time, but that doesn't mean I don't hate his guts or won't argue to Devils fans that Richter was better.

 

[eco's bones]

Absolutely HOF worthy. Greatest of all time? That's very debatable. I would say no. The goalie position though IMO is almost impossible to qualify throughout the history of the league---I think arguments could be made for or against say 30 or 40 goalies as the best ever and there's really no way of satisfying a majority of fans or at least outside their own fanbase. Kind of like trying to square the circle.

 

[SML2]

Martin Brodeur was a goalie who fit perfectly in a system. The Devils loved the trap. The way you break the trap is pretty much to dump the puck in and go get it. Couldn't do that with Brodeur. He handled the puck so well, not only would you not recover it, you're going to face an odd man rush the other way. If he were even average at passing the puck, the Devils face way more scoring chances in those years. I don't think Daneyko had to skate backward for about the last three years of his career. It was a perfect storm that led to a really impressive career. You gotta give them Their due. The job is to win. They did the job.

 

[Elliman]

Hasek is the greatest goalie I’ve ever seen play.

Here’s another unpopular opinion. I think Richter in his prime was better than Hanks & Marty. Sure, both had better careers but Mike Richter on his A game was extra special. Doubt many people here will agree but whatever. I’ll lose any credibility I might have had but I don’t care.

Nobody comes close to Hasek though for me. Not Roy, Richter, Marty or Hanks.

I never saw Tretiak, Dryden, Sawchuk, Hall or Plante play so I can’t comment on them.

 

[Machinehead]

Somebody on the Devils had to be good. They won three Cups.

 

[BKGooner]

Was Brodeur great? Absolutely. Are his stats inflated because of the era he played in and his team’s style of play. Also true. Unfortunately even with the numbers he posted he isn’t the consensus number one over the course of his career. That speaks volumes. If any other generations top tender put up Brodeur’s numbers no one would argue they weren’t the best.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Hasek is the greatest goalie I’ve ever seen play.

Here’s another unpopular opinion. I think Richter in his prime was better than Hanks & Marty. Sure, both had better careers but Mike Richter on his A game was extra special. Doubt many people here will agree but whatever. I’ll lose any credibility I might have had but I don’t care.

Nobody comes close to Hasek though for me. Not Roy, Richter, Marty or Hanks.

I never saw Tretiak, Dryden, Sawchuk, Hall or Plante play so I can’t comment on them.

Agree on Hasek. Absolute GOAT.

Disagree with Richters peak, but will say he was more clutch in big games.

Brodeur, despite being an unlikeable piece of crap, is one of the best netminders ever.

 

[HFBS]

Somebody on the Devils had to be good. They won three Cups.

They had good players and the system fit the time. He often if not mostly faced under 20 shots a game. He also gave up some of the worst playoffs goals of all time, including one that lost the Cup late in game 7 against the Avalanche. But his numbers are undeniable. As much as I hate fatty he should be a unanimous HOF first ballot choice. Still, I will always consider him the most overrated goalie of all time.

 

[Machinehead]

They had good players and the system fit the time. He often if not mostly faced under 20 shots a game. He also gave up some of the worst playoffs goals of all time, including one that lost the Cup late in game 7 against the Avalanche. But his numbers are undeniable. As much as I hate fatty he should be a unanimous HOF first ballot choice. Still, I will always consider him the most overrated goalie of all time.

I mean, Hasek and Roy were better. Especially Hasek.

But Brodeur is still top 10 in GSAA despite his relative lack of workload.

 

[motopanekeku]

Hasek is the greatest goalie I’ve ever seen play.

Here’s another unpopular opinion. I think Richter in his prime was better than Hanks & Marty. Sure, both had better careers but Mike Richter on his A game was extra special. Doubt many people here will agree but whatever. I’ll lose any credibility I might have had but I don’t care.

Nobody comes close to Hasek though for me. Not Roy, Richter, Marty or Hanks.

I never saw Tretiak, Dryden, Sawchuk, Hall or Plante play so I can’t comment on them.

I was a Devils fan as a kid because my dad had season tickets, on the glass, 20 feet from Marty Brodeur. I took his abilities for granted. I didn't realize until years later that not all goalies played the puck like he did. He was special in that sense. He almost always played the puck in the smartest, safest, yet most aggressive way. I watched him score a goal. After that whenever there was an empty net it was always like "is he gonna do it again?"

He was a big reason they beat the Rangers in the Conference finals in 2012. Constant perfect stretch passes and clears. I was watching as a Rangers fan by then. It was amazing to see Brodeur completely neutralize our forecheck (ie dump and chase) with his puck handling.

All that being said I have also seen it go dark in Hank's mask and there is this look of furious determination. You know and he knows that not one goal is going in. He becomes a wall. I've seen that happen too and it's pretty amazing.

 

[BBKers]

Uncle Daddy was very good. Terrible guy. Great on the ice.

 

[SML2]

I even let him slide on the Uncle Daddy stuff. It's not something I would ever do, but you never know the whole story in a relationship unless you're one of the people in it. Either the first wife brought some issues to the table or the sister is the worst human on the planet. The truth is in there somewhere.

 

[eco's bones]

Speaking of Dryden he won 6 Stanley Cups in 7 NHL season + a small part of another. The only player in NHL history to win a Cup before he lost a regular season game or before he won the Calder trophy for rookie of the year. It helped a lot that he played with a lot of HOF'ers--Larry Robinson, Guy Lapointe and Serge Savard were all d-men and all future HOF'ers and there were numerous forwards who became HOF'ers as well--Henri Richard, Frank Mahovlich, Yvan Cournoyer, Jacques Lemaire, Guy Lafleur, Steve Shutt, Bob Gainey and I might be missing a couple. Canadiens had a solid corps of players after those guys too--Pete Mahovlich, Mario Tremblay, J. C. Tremblay, Rejean Houle, Doug Risebrough, Doug Jarvis, Jacques Laperriere, Pierre Bouchard. Dryden would displace Rogie Vachon---an excellent goaliel

It helps playing with other great players and that's not just Dryden--that's Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur too. Winning 6 cups in such an abbreviated career certainly would put Dryden at the top of the pecking order though. There's a question of how to evaluate Sawchuk, Glenn Hall, Jacques Plante, Frank Brimsek (who had a nickname Mr. Zero pretty much because in his time he was a shutout machine) and a bunch of others because you know what? just because nobody actually saw these guys play doesn't mean they weren't for real and part of NHL history.

Apologies to Devils fans but NHL history doesn't start with their f***ing franchise and raw numbers for career wins is not a good enough argument that Brodeur was the best goaltender ever. There was a lot that happened before they came into the league and a lot more to happen.

 

[alkurtz]

One game for the championship of the universe: who do I take between Brodeur and his contemporary, Mike Richter? Easy...Richter. In elimination games in OT for the Devils in OT, who always emerged victorious? Richter. The thought experiment I also like to play is to switch the two, put Richter in the Devils system and Brodeur with the Rangers. Who would be considered better? No doubt: Richter.

I've been a hockey fan for just about 60 years. Best I've seen? Hasek, Glenn Hall, Roy. Brodeur would be in the top ten but not in the top five. Sorry, as good as he was, he was a product of his time, the system that his team played, and the D in front of him. Call me a "homer," I don't care. I like to think that I can take a fair look at all I have seen and do an objective evaluation. It's not an anti-Devil, anti-anything that is against the Rangers bias. I have enormous respect for all the Isles accomplished in the early 1980s, all their players (including Potvin), their coach, and the way that they played. But, as good as he was, I think Brodeur was a bit overrated. Plus, I hate his commercials: just go away already.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Dude stopped a whole hell of a lot of the pucks he saw.

I'm not going to take a steaming dump on him because of the style of the game at the time.

Can't change the validation of the numbers because the game is different today.

He was a great goalie regardless of the era

Great goalie, shitty human, slightly overrated compared with Hasek.

 

[eco's bones]

Great goalie, ****ty human, slightly overrated compared with Hasek.

....and there's an argument right there against Brodeur because Hasek was really the goaltender of the decade in which Brodeur was in his prime. Like Lundqvist Hasek was the undisputed best player and face of his franchise and pretty much made his team a contender all on his own. The Devils never had a killer offense but it was always very good--they were a product mostly of Lemaire's shutdown defensive system--two HOF defenseman Stevens and Niedermayer (add in Fetisov another HOF'er on D and Rafalski) and Brodeur. There were more great pieces there than Buffalo had to work with.

What Hasek and Lundqvist have done over the course of their careers is take their teams to places they had no business being at. It's not necessarily Brodeur's fault for lucking into a great situation but still it needs to be taken into account when someone's making the claim that he's the greatest goalie ever.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

....and there's an argument right there against Brodeur because Hasek was really the goaltender of the decade in which Brodeur was in his prime. Like Lundqvist Hasek was the undisputed best player and face of his franchise and pretty much made his team a contender on his own. The Devils never had a killer offense but it was always very good--they were a product mostly of Lemaire's shutdown defensive system--two HOF defenseman Stevens and Niedermayer (add in Fetisov another HOF'er on D and Rafalski) and Brodeur. There were more great pieces there than Buffalo had to work with.

What Hasek and Lundqvist have done over the course of their careers is take their teams to places they had no business being at. It's not necessarily Brodeur's fault for lucking into a great situation but still it needs to be taken into account when someone's making the claim that he's the greatest goalie ever.

Brodeur was still an amazing goalie and one of the best ever. Just gets SLIGHTLY inflated compared to someone like Hasek (who I feel was a tier above).

 

[BKGooner]

Kind of ot but maybe we have an impromptu poll of the greatest of all time...
My vote is Hasek. Also on the guy for one game for all the marbles, according to Gretzky the right answer is Fuhr. He would give up one goal less than the guy at the other end of the ice.

 

[Pidto Files]

One game for the championship of the universe: who do I take between Brodeur and his contemporary, Mike Richter? Easy...Richter. In elimination games in OT for the Devils in OT, who always emerged victorious? Richter. The thought experiment I also like to play is to switch the two, put Richter in the Devils system and Brodeur with the Rangers. Who would be considered better? No doubt: Richter.

I've been a hockey fan for just about 60 years. Best I've seen? Hasek, Glenn Hall, Roy. Brodeur would be in the top ten but not in the top five. Sorry, as good as he was, he was a product of his time, the system that his team played, and the D in front of him. Call me a "homer," I don't care. I like to think that I can take a fair look at all I have seen and do an objective evaluation. It's not an anti-Devil, anti-anything that is against the Rangers bias. I have enormous respect for all the Isles accomplished in the early 1980s, all their players (including Potvin), their coach, and the way that they played. But, as good as he was, I think Brodeur was a bit overrated. Plus, I hate his commercials: just go away already.

Hockey's Tom Brady. Just the French Canadian version. Obviously a HOF player. Not the best ever. Best goalie ever didn't even play in the NHL. Tretiak.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

 

[eco's bones]

Hockey's Tom Brady. Just the French Canadian version. Obviously a HOF player. Not the best ever. Best goalie ever didn't even play in the NHL. Tretiak.

Tretiak was a great goalie. I don't know if I'd call him the best ever.

I can remember watching much of the 72 Canada and Soviet Union summit series where Tretiak really became famous and even though Canada eventually won he out goalied Dryden in that series. The NHL players took the Russians for granted. It was before training camp and back then NHL players got back in shape during camp and early regular season. Most all of them didn't train over the summer. The Canadians also came into the series with this arrogant attitude that they were the best and the Russians were going to be pushovers. Those two things contributed to the Russian almost winning the series. The Russian players were in great shape and their team was pretty much made up of personnel from 3 or 4 Soviet teams and particularly CSKA which back then was the Red Army team. Their players had a lot more chemistry than Canada's all star squad. Poor Ken Dryden in a way---his save % is really crap for the series but the Canadians were taking needless revenge type penalties throughout the series and the Russian team and its tic tac toe passing game was killing them on the power play. Dryden wrote a book about that 'Face-off at the Summit' and it's very interesting. Dryden was a smart guy--Cornell U. grad--later on he was a member of the Canadian parliament for a while. Not arrogant like a lot of his teammates---he's trying to figure out what's going wrong and he was very impressed with the Soviets play and their training regimens.

Mostly what I saw of Tretiak was at the Olympics and Canada Cup tournaments so it's hard for me to judge him. He was an outstanding goalie who deserves to be in the HOF but there were moments where he really f***ed up and one of those moments was the 1980 Miracle on Ice game between the Russians and the United States at the Olympics. He did not have a good night and Jimmy Craig was outstanding--maybe the best game he ever played in his entire life. The Russians were the better team that game and it wasn't that close.......but they lost. Mark Johnson's goal to tie it at 2 at the buzzer to end the first period with a miffed Tretiak having already left his crease to head for the locker room before the puck went in was f***ed up and that gave the USA life that their play didn't really deserve.