Softest Leaf Forward Group Since 2000?

[Knies iT]

As of today.

I can’t remember a forward group that projects to be less physical or softer than the upcoming bunch.

Even the dark ages there was always a Belak, Bell, Deveaux, Mayers, Rosehill, Brown, Orr, McLaren, Sill, Clarkson, etc. That breed of player is all but extinct and they were awful impact-wise, but so were those entire teams. This convo isn’t even limited to enforcers but any name with functional physicality (would be too many to list).

The recent rebuild iteration has always been generally soft, but at times still featured names like Kadri/Martin/Komarov/Boyle/Hyman, Simmonds/Clifford/Ritchie/Foligno, etc.

This season, no joke, we are likely looking at Bunting and Aube-Kubel as the most imposing Fs.

Sure, Simmonds/Clifford are still contracted but the expectation is that they will not be permanent parts of the everyday team with talk of a revamped 4th line.

IMO the only recent team that compares is the 2018-19 bunch with guys like Ennis, Lindholm, etc. on the 4th line and Kapanen, Johnsson, etc. on the 3rd.

Even if more transactions trickle in (i.e. Kerfoot out), I don't anticipate this changing much as a lot of the dust has settled and they would be cap relief moves for the most part.

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[kb]

Hey, would you look at that! Another negative thread.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Probably. You are looking at a radical shift across the game about a decade ago, where the entire NHL got "softer". That is a big part of it. All of those guys you listed don't have jobs anywhere in the NHL (and the few stragglers left are typically in very limited roles and play practically no role in a team's success) and a lot of those guys you have on that list are not players I would want anywhere near a competitive NHL lineup these days.

The goal is not to be "tough", it is to be "tougher to play against". Clifford and Simmonds are tough, but super easy to play against. I think we've created a lineup that is tougher to play against, as long as the guys step up, which has often been the greatest issue.

 

[TheRumble]

MOD

Do y'all not remember the previous management group that emphasized trucluence and size? Trading up for Tyler Biggs? Running a 4th line of three goons that got caved in whenever they were on the ice? David "Wendel" Clarkson?

1) We didn't lose because we have bad defense. This team had the 7th best defense in the league in terms of shot supression last year.

2) We didn't lose because the stars didn't show up. Nylander, Tavares, Matthews, Marner assisted on or scored EVERY SINGLE GOAL, in the final 3 games of the series.

3) We didn't lose because of goaltending, at least not in Game 7 or 6. Campbell did enough to win both games.

End of the day, we lost Game 7 to Tampa because of Nick Paul - who was paid a minimum NHL salary BTW and the refs decided to call an illegal pick for the first time in an NHL playoff game.

 

[zeke]

The toughest guys on the Avs were....?

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

The toughest guys on the Avs were....?

For forwards? Aube-Kubel led all forwards in hits. Forget who he plays for now though... could use a guy like that.

Other than that Kurtis Macdermid really helped the Aves in the playoffs with all 0 of his games played. Good thing he was there to goon it up.

 

[Dreakmur]

The toughest guys on the Avs were....?

Depends how you define toughness.

 

[justashadowof]

Everyone knows and pretends to not know that the hard forechecking hits on the opposition's defense has always been a big part of the NHL playoffs. Everyone knows that any player who prioritizes personal safety in the playoffs is not giving the most of himself in the NHL playoffs.

What really might have helped the Leafs these past couple of seasons would have been a passionate 3rd line center with great offensive skills in place of Blind Backpass.

 

[Sypher04]

Simmonds and Clifford are both terrible so their removals are a net positive. They were almost never in the lineup at the same time, and aube-kubel has been added, so assuming he took their spot, we haven’t really lost anything there physicality wise.

The only loss vs last year would be Boosh, and I mean technically we added Jordie Benn, so while we probably don’t want or need him playing if people are healthy, it seems like organizationally we are in roughly the same place

And perhaps not done

 

[29Potvin]

Everyone knows and pretends to not know that the hard forechecking hits on the opposition's defense has always been a big part of the NHL playoffs. Everyone knows that any player who prioritizes personal safety in the playoffs is not giving the most of himself in the NHL playoffs.

What really might have helped the Leafs these past couple of seasons would have been a passionate 3rd line center with great offensive skills in place of Blind Backpass.

You would need to trade draft picks or prospects at the TDL for that type of player and fans here wont like that.
Take a look at history and teams that added stars at the TDL and teams that added bottom six grit and what it cost them.
Tampa Bay
Players in since cup runs - Goodrow ,Colemen, Savard, Hagel, Paul (Seabrook LTIR)
Cost- 5-1st round picks, 2nd, 3rd and two 4ths, Foote,Raddysh Katchouk and Tyler Johnson

All players that were big parts of the teams runs over the last three years that cost TB lots of draft capital and prospects.
Unlike our team management that will not move away from players that have aged or proven to not be the right mix TB move on from these players and use the systems in place to maximize the cap loopholes.
We continue the cycle of change in the bottom six with such low impact players because we are to loyal.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

As of today.

I can’t remember a forward group that projects to be less physical or softer than the upcoming bunch.

Even the dark ages there was always a Belak, Bell, Deveaux, Mayers, Rosehill, Brown, Orr, McLaren, Sill, Clarkson, etc. That breed of player is all but extinct and they were awful impact-wise, but so were those entire teams. This convo isn’t even limited to enforcers but any name with functional physicality (would be too many to list).

The recent rebuild iteration has always been generally soft, but at times still featured names like Kadri/Martin/Komarov/Boyle/Hyman, Simmonds/Clifford/Ritchie/Foligno, etc.

This season, no joke, we are likely looking at Bunting and Aube-Kubel as the most imposing Fs.

Sure, Simmonds/Clifford are still contracted but the expectation is that they will not be permanent parts of the everyday team with talk of a revamped 4th line.

IMO the only recent team that compares is the 2018-19 bunch with guys like Ennis, Lindholm, etc. on the 4th line and Kapanen, Johnsson, etc. on the 3rd.

Even if more transactions trickle in (i.e. Kerfoot out), I don't anticipate this changing much as a lot of the dust has settled and they would be cap relief moves for the most part.

The thing about the days of Belak, Bell, Orr, Mayers, Rosehill etc. Those teams were trash

Disgrace

Pathetic

An embarrassment

 

[ToneDog]

Simmonds and Clifford are both terrible so their removals are a net positive. They were almost never in the lineup at the same time, and aube-kubel has been added, so assuming he took their spot, we haven’t really lost anything there physicality wise.

The only loss vs last year would be Boosh, and I mean technically we added Jordie Benn, so while we probably don’t want or need him playing if people are healthy, it seems like organizationally we are in roughly the same place

And perhaps not done

If we are not done, then we might be done. Good point about Boosh, Gio would be it if Muzz went done unless they play Benn.

As the lineup stands today, expect to get pushed around and bullied by the usual suspects.

The thing about the days of Belak, Bell, Orr, Mayers, Rosehill etc. Those teams were trash

Disgrace

Pathetic

An embarrassment

Those were goons. We lack the Clarks and Roberts type players. Muzz and Gio are pretty much it.

 

[Sypher04]

If we are not done, then we might be done. Good point about Boosh, Gio would be it if Muzz went done unless they play Benn.

As the lineup stands today, expect to get pushed around and bullied by the usual suspects.

This concept of getting ‘bullied’ by more physical teams never really happened the past couple years, I’m not expecting it’ll start now.

 

[Dreakmur]

This concept of getting ‘bullied’ by more physical teams never really happened the past couple years, I’m not expecting it’ll start now.

Without fights, it’s a lot more subtle, but we’ve definitely been pushed around in the playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

This concept of getting ‘bullied’ by more physical teams never actually happened the past couple years, I’m not expecting it’ll start now.

Perry, Marron, Cernak all tried. Toss in punks like Hagel trying to goat Engval into a fight and Colton running around playing one foot taller. The Rangers added muscle last year after Wilson dummied them.

It may not happen often but you have to be ready and prepared when it does IMO.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I don't think they are soft. Playoff teams play like the Leafs do right now. No need to change the approach.

 

[Auston Marlander]

If we are not done, then we might be done. Good point about Boosh, Gio would be it if Muzz went done unless they play Benn.

As the lineup stands today, expect to get pushed around and bullied by the usual suspects.



Those were goons. We lack the Clarks and Roberts type players. Muzz and Gio are pretty much it.

What part of last season tells you we lost becuase we were pushed around? And which players on the Stanley Cup champion Ava were pushing around other teams?

I'm shocked some of you can type with you're knuckles so firmly placed on the ground.

 

[Nineteen67]

This concept of getting ‘bullied’ by more physical teams never really happened the past couple years, I’m not expecting it’ll start now.

other than Montreal CBJ and Bos .

Do you remember Matthews’ little snicker when he was being bullied by Chiarot? No response. Or when Naz got kneed by DeBrusk? No response.

This year, they were a little different. When fatty Patty tried to harass Matty, Marty whacked Patty. Matty also innocently rammed Sergachev head into the glass after a whistle.

Now if they can get Willie Snow Shower into the fun.

 

[Nineteen67]

I don't think they are soft. Playoff teams play like the Leafs do right now. No need to change the approach.

Tampa won two cups in a row and a trip to the final and they are pack of wolves.
The Blues and Bruins SCF was the best final in years.

 

[ToneDog]

What part of last season tells you we lost becuase we were pushed around? And which players on the Stanley Cup champion Ava were pushing around other teams?

I'm shocked some of you can type with you're knuckles so firmly placed on the ground.

I watched Tampa try to push Colorado around and not a single Avs player back down. They clearly tried to intimidate Byram. I watched Hagel try to goat Engvall into a fight only to see Engvall not interested. I watch Tavares get punched in the face and turn and skate away. I watch Willie afraid to go into a corner and battle for a puck. This team is easily intimated.

Stop with the knuckles b.s. Nobody is asking for players to fight. Just show some backbone.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Tampa won two cups in a row and a trip to the final and they are pack of wolves.
The Blues and Bruins SCF was the best final in years.

Toronto looked tougher than Tampa in the playoffs.

Tampa tried and their guys like Maroon and Perry were basically liabilities for them after game 1-2.

I don't see it.

 

[ToneDog]

other than Montreal CBJ and Bos .

Do your remember Matthews’ little snicker when he was being bullied by Chiarot? No response. Or when Naz got kneed by DeBrusk? No response.

This year, they were a little different. When fatty Patty tried to harass Matty, Marty whacked Patty. Matty also innocently rammed Sergachev head into the glass after a whistle.

Now if they can get Willie Snow Shower into the fun.

The President of the team said this team needs to be harder to play against. Are we. Not a chance.

 

[Nineteen67]

The President of the team said this team needs to be harder to play against. Are we. Not a chance.

As did the coach.

Toronto looked tougher than Tampa in the playoffs.

Tampa tried and their guys like Maroon and Perry were basically liabilities for them after game 1-2.

I don't see it.

Tampa looked tired most of the playoffs. They got a lucky draw in the first round.

 

[A1LeafNation]

This is why we lose in the playoffs and it's not bc of toughness. These are the stats of the last 2 games of the playoffs for the last 4 years...

1 Win 7 Losses

14 GF (1.75 GP/G) on 281 shots

27 GA (3.375 GA/G) on 248 shots

11/17 PK (64.71%)

1/20 PP (5%)

.891 SV%

 

[DarkKnight]

Hey, would you look at that! Another negative thread.

It’s like we didn’t even win a round again or something. I can’t believe the negativity after six years of complete futility, squandering years of the best talent we’ve had perhaps in Leafs history. Can you believe the negative Nancy’s? Can you believe they’ve lost faith in a GM, coach, who have failed? Clearly we should be celebrating, what an off season it’s been too, its just nothing but amazing everywhere we look.

Its just so ridiculous to bash loyal fans who have watched disappointment after disappointment after disappointment after disappointment after disappointment after disappointment, to actually get snarky because people aren’t lighting candles at the altar of management for amassing exactly Jack squat. No, let’s praise and talk about handshakes and “should have won” and “next year”, that’s the realism, expected goals not wins.

Losers accept losing, it’s nothing to aspire to.

We should be pissed.