SO why is Alex Mogilny Not in the Hhof

[Gorskyontario]

That was after all the injuries he had in previous years.

A healthy Mogilny scored 7 (same number) hat-tricks in his best season.

Yet the following seasons, Mogilny had great performances during contract years(lol).

 

[wetcoast]

It may not be fair to apply the "Russian enigma" stereotype to every Russian player, but it's a pretty weird argument to say the stereotype exists, therefore any criticism of a Russian player's consistency and effort is wrong.

Mogilny may be the individual who is most responsible for Russian players getting this reputation!

This is a fair point and Mogilny was a very frustrating player at times he would look world class and other times he was just a guy out there.

At the end of the day the actual record is what matters and Mogilny suffers from a lack of consistency and not having enough HHOF type of seasons.

This is argument by sneer and a complete failure to engage with Mogilny's actual history.



Ha, another conspiracy theory. Turgeon was criticised throughout his career for disappearing in the playoffs and for playing soft. He left Buffalo, the Islanders, and Montreal as a playoff disappointment for his actual performance in the NHL. I never heard anyone mention what he did or didn't do at the world Juniors until Gare Joyce wrote that book.

Sure but these are hockey people who vote for the HHOF and players get reputations, like Jumbo Joe more from a single incident than their overall record at times.

Maybe no one mentions the incident but there wasn't any prevalent feeling that turgeon was a heart and soul type of player who has more intangibles than his resume suggest on the surface.

 

[wetcoast]

Let's do one of my favorite exercises, rolling 10-year placements:

1989-90 through 1998-99: 12th in goals/20th in points
1990-91 through 1999-00: 9th in goals/21st in points
1991-92 through 2000-01: 7th in goals/17th in points
1992-93 through 2001-02: 10th in goals/16th in points
1993-94 through 2002-03: 17th in goals/20th in points
1994-95 through 2003-04: 19th in goals/25th in points

Not bad. I like that even when you remove the 1992-93 season from the 10-year sample, you still see a player that is amongst the most productive in the era.

Compare to Dino Ciccarelli

1980-81 through 1988-89: 11th in goals/21st in points
1981-82 through 1990-91: 6th in goals/20th in points
1982-83 through 1991-92: 9th in goals/19th in points
1983-84 through 1992-93: 9th in goals/22nd in points
1984-85 through 1993-94: 11th in goals/24th in points
1985-86 through 1994-95: 8th in goals/19th in points
1986-87 through 1995-96: 10th in goals/20th in points
1987-88 through 1996-97: 12th in goals/29th in points
1988-89 through 1997-98: 18th in goals/39th in points

They seem pretty comparable, Dino with what amounts to a three-year longevity edge, maybe you give Mogilny a bit more love for a more globalized and more teams NHL. Ol' Dino's consistency is a bit undervalued in general most likely with the nasty word compiler to mask a 600 goal career.

All of these numbers kinda correlate to Hall of very good or else the HHOF needs to be doubled in size

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Thinking on it more, is there really any separation between Mogilny and Kovalev? Other than Mogilny's outlier season

 

[Gerulaitis]

Yet the following seasons, Mogilny had great performances during contract years(lol).

He's a smart guy

Thinking on it more, is there really any separation between Mogilny and Kovalev? Other than Mogilny's outlier season

Mogilny (when healthy) is up there with Fedorov and Bure.

Kovalev had a huge talent but was inconsistent so yes, there is a separation.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Thinking on it more, is there really any separation between Mogilny and Kovalev? Other than Mogilny's outlier season

Mogilny was undoubtedly better when they were both in the League at the same time. Kovalev obviously played much longer, but even still didn't hit Mogilny's career totals.

 

[Hobnobs]

Mogilny was undoubtedly better when they were both in the League at the same time. Kovalev obviously played much longer, but even still didn't hit Mogilny's career totals.

Also if it's one of those two has an outlier season it's Kovalev

 

[MadLuke]

but even still didn't hit Mogilny's career totals.

Being 3 regular season points apart that one way to put it, Kovalev scored 11 more points in the nhl than Mogilny, he just took 300 somethings more games to do it.

after turning 35 Mogilny played 34 games, Kovalev played 165 games scoring little at old age in a very low scoring league.

If we keep it pre 35/lock-out time period for both

mogilny: 1007 pts in the regular season in 956 games, 86 playoff points in 124 games, 1093 in 1080
Kovalev: 876 pts in 1073 games, 95 playoffs points in 112 games, 971 in 1185.

1.01 ppg vs 0.82 is a good gap in pace (15-16 pts per 82).

 

[Gorskyontario]

Mogilny (when healthy) is up there with Fedorov and Bure.

Fedorov was more valuable than Bure and Mogilny combined.

 

[Gerulaitis]

Fedorov was more valuable than Bure and Mogilny combined.

When and where?

You should back up such statements by solid facts, otherwise you might look like Patrick Roy in his last game as a Canadien

 

[tabness]

Fedorov was more valuable than Bure and Mogilny combined.

I'm as high on Fedorov as anyone, childhood icon, loved to pretend I was the great Sergei Fedorov when I playing hockey. I played D, but who cares, Sergei played D too lol

Love Bure as well. Used to do the cheap trade tricks in NHL 2000 to eventually trade for him on the Wings just to have him roll with Sergei.

Almo is more talented than both of them

 

[Gerulaitis]

I'm as high on Fedorov as anyone, childhood icon, loved to pretend I was the great Sergei Fedorov when I playing hockey. I played D, but who cares, Sergei played D too lol

Love Bure as well. Used to do the cheap trade tricks in NHL 2000 to eventually trade for him on the Wings just to have him roll with Sergei.

Almo is more talented than both of them

They're more or less on the same level (super stellar).

From 1988 until 1994 Mogilny was arguably the biggest star of the three.

Mogilny 1993 playoff

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yet the following seasons, Mogilny had great performances during contract years(lol).

Tough to find the early contracts, but 1993 was a contract year. That was the 76-goal one.

He signed 4 years, $2.7 mil per after that.
Came back with a 99 point pace the next season.
In '95 it was 47 in 44.
In '96, he had a huge year with 55+52=107. This was not a contract year though.
In '97, he had the first sub-PPG season since his rookie year. I confirmed that he was still on that four year deal from fall of '93 here. And many sources state that he "will be an RFA at the end of this season."

So, the worst year of his career was a contract year in '97.

November of 1997, he ends a contract dispute and signs for 4 years, $17.6 mil with Vancouver.
Has some pretty poor outings, gets dealt to NJ.

Resurgence in '01, which is a contract year.
Summer of '01, he signs 4 years, $22 million with Toronto. Has a very nice year in '03, wins a Byng (?) and then eases his way to the finish...

So, it's like kinda true...but should it be hung on Mogilny any more than anyone else? Doesn't really seem that way.

 

[Gorskyontario]

So, it's like kinda true...but should it be hung on Mogilny any more than anyone else? Doesn't really seem that way.

Probably not, and to reiterate. I think Mogilny was a good player, and given the current standards of the HHOF, I don't think he would be out of place. He was a much better player than Andreychuk or Housley.

That being said he was not a model of consistency. I think people in this thread are drastically overrating him.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Almo is more talented than both of them

Why were his results in the NHL so much worse then?

When and where?

You should back up such statements by solid facts, otherwise you might look like Patrick Roy in his last game as a Canadien

So you use a game where Fedorov lit up one of the best goalies of all time... To exclaim how inferior players are his equal?


I think your post makes less than zero sense, I apologize if I missed the point.

 

[MadLuke]

He was a much better player than Andreychuk or Housley.

But those played, 1495 and 1639 games (plus 162 in the playoff for Andreychuck, for 1800 games in total) in the nhl.

The modern (played games in the 2000s or could have without early retirement) under 1,000 games (not for a long non-nhl career reason) player in the hall would be more:

Kariya
Datsyuk
Lemieux
Lafontaine
Lindros
Neely
Forsberg
Bure

Just above 1,000 there is Shea Weber.

That a quick look, but probably more the competition level voters have in mind than the players with the 6th most game in the Hall like Andreychuck, with 640 goals, 1338 points, good in the 83 world junior, 1984 season and still playing 19 minutes a game in 2004 on a cup winner breath of a career.

Lot of people would agree Palffy (same PPG as Mogilny, played almost purely in the Dpe), Kent Nilsson, Kovalchuck, Spezza, Naslund, Yashin, Gaborik, Marc Savard, Lecavalier were better hockey in some way than a lot of people that made it in the hall, talent is far to be the main variable for it.

The by season memoral bar without compiling seem much higher, Lindros did had to wait quite a bit, he was better than almost everyone in the hall.

 

[sr edler]

Comparing Mogilny to Kovalev seems like a bit of an unnecessary insult. I'm hard pressed to think of anything Kovalev had over Mogilny even slightly (size probably, which he hardly even used that much comparably) but it's way easy to find the opposite, meaning things where Mogilny surpassed Kovalev (speed, agility, vision, playmaking, goalscoring).

 

[Gerulaitis]

Why were his results in the NHL so much worse then?



So you use a game where Fedorov lit up one of the best goalies of all time... To exclaim how inferior players are his equal?


I think your post makes less than zero sense, I apologize if I missed the point.

To address your question - if we’re looking for reasons behind that, there are really just two: injuries, and more injuries.

Well, I wouldn’t go so far as to say that Mogilny’s 1,000+ points and his remarkable goal-scoring record over the past 30 years are "much worse."

And let me remind you, Tikhonov himself once said that Mogilny possessed more natural talent than either Bure or Fedorov.

It seems like the point might’ve been missed, but that’s okay - no hard feelings.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Comparing Mogilny to Kovalev seems like a bit of an unnecessary insult. I'm hard pressed to think of anything Kovalev had over Mogilny even slightly (size probably, which he hardly even used that much comparably) but it's way easy to find the opposite, meaning things where Mogilny surpassed Kovalev (speed, agility, vision, playmaking, goalscoring).

size, durability, and the ability to play center (although i don’t think that was ever really used after his first few years in the league)

but yeah you’re totally right. everything about kovalev that wowed people — stickhandling, that wrist shot — mogilny was better at. and yes, the difference in their vision is night and day.

to me, this feels like when people act like rob blake was kevin hatcher. superficial similarities, yes. the warts belong in the same conversation as talking points, but the scale of each player’s impact and ability is astronomically different.

 

[MadLuke]

But the HHOF is not that much about that, way more about results and Kovalev scored a little bit more points in the NHL during their career and was a much bigger piece of a bigger cup. Kovalev has a top 5 finish, 2 top -10 goals finish, not that different from Mogilny.

Talent gap, pre nhl career gap, how big of an nhl career gap ?

PS: Roy was about to win the cup allowing only 4 goals in 284 minutes (about 4.7 games) in the final that year after that last game as a Habs, not a bad.

 

[seventieslord]

When and where?

You should back up such statements by solid facts, otherwise you might look like Patrick Roy in his last game as a Canadien

That would make you the 1995-96 Detroit Red Wings of HFboards posters... Are you at that level?

 

[Gorskyontario]

And let me remind you, Tikhonov himself once said that Mogilny possessed more natural talent than either Bure or Fedorov.

He also called Bob Gainey the best player in the world. So him saying that means less than nothing.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

But the HHOF is not that much about that, way more about results and Kovalev scored a little bit more points in the NHL during their career and was a much bigger piece of a bigger cup. Kovalev has a top 5 finish, 2 top -10 goals finish, not that different from Mogilny.

Talent gap, pre nhl career gap, how big of an nhl career gap ?

PS: Roy was about to win the cup allowing only 4 goals in 284 minutes (about 4.7 games) in the final that year after that last game as a Habs, not a bad.

the bolded is very true

this is the slippery slope logic that gets the HHOF from glenn anderson to ciccarelli and beyond

 

[Michael Farkas]

He also called Bob Gainey the best player in the world. So him saying that means less than nothing.

I think this is another myth that has been stomped out here if I'm not mistaken. He was fond of Bob Gainey...as we all should be. But...

 

[MS]

But the HHOF is not that much about that, way more about results and Kovalev scored a little bit more points in the NHL during their career and was a much bigger piece of a bigger cup. Kovalev has a top 5 finish, 2 top -10 goals finish, not that different from Mogilny.

Talent gap, pre nhl career gap, how big of an nhl career gap ?

PS: Roy was about to win the cup allowing only 4 goals in 284 minutes (about 4.7 games) in the final that year after that last game as a Habs, not a bad.

Mogilny was on a totally different planet from Kovalev defensively.

To me it's the biggest misconception that people have about Mogilny - that his cruisy-looking play style reflected a lazy defensive player who was a defensive liability. And to me the exact opposite was the case - his positional understanding was probably on par with Fedorov and the guy was probably the best forechecker I've ever seen at angling off passing lanes and disrupting breakout passes.