So, *why* is Alex Mogilny not in the HHOF?

[Overrated]

Yeah, I feel like this whole "Why-isn't-Mogilny-in-the-Hall-of-Fame?" thing is starting to become a bit overblown.

The main reason he's not in the Hall of Fame is... he wasn't a Hall of Famer, by NHL performance. I can't speak to his international hockey credentials much, but maybe that pushes him up (or doesn't it? I don't know).

And yes, he defected successfully... but so did the Šťastný brothers, like, a decade earlier.

People are unfortunately starting to make this into a big deal, when it really isn't. I'm well aware of Hockey Ref's "Adjusted Stats" flaws, but to give Mogilny's NHL results some context:

Player with TWICE as many 'adjusted' 40-goal seasons as Mogilny:
-- Ilya Kovalchuk
Players who have more 'adjusted' 40-goal seasons than Mogilny:
-- Rick Martin
-- Peter Bondra
-- Theoren Fleury
Players who have the same number of 'adjusted' 40-goal seasons as Mogilny:
-- Joe Pavelski
-- John Tavares

All of these guys were very good though. Fleury imo deserves the HOF. I'd still pick prime Mogilny over any of them.

 

[MXD]

Everybody knows that Mogilny was way better than Roenick and Fleury. But I do appreciate your joke

The same way everyone knows Canada's biggest city is Oslo.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Everybody knows that Mogilny was way better than Roenick and Fleury. But I do appreciate your joke

Both those players have better PPG than Mogilny, and better playoff numbers.

 

[Staniowski]

There's a very big gulf between the opinions of those who saw Mogilny before injuries greatly affected his career, and those who are primarily familiar with his later career (part of Vancouver, NJ, Toronto).

He had a lot of injuries: multiple broken legs, major knee and hip injuries, I think multiple concussions...

For almost everybody who saw Mogilny at his best - in the late '80s and the 1st half of the '90s, he is a very easy hall-of-famer. Everybody thought they were watching a future inductee, without a doubt.

These are the ppg leaders for '92 to '96:

1. Lemieux - 2.26
2. LaFontaine - 1.48
3. Lindros - 1.46
4. Gretzky - 1.42
5. Oates - 1.39
6. Mogilny - 1.33
7. Jagr - 1.33
8. Selanne - 1.32
9. Sakic - 1.31
10. Yzerman - 1.31

This is the Mogilny we remember. For me, he is an essential HHOFer, one of the most skilled hockey players ever.

I suspect he would've been drafted 1st overall in the '87 draft if available to play in the NHL. And he is one of the best WJC performers ever. I first saw him play in the Piestany tournament.

I can understand people who weren't around in the early '90s, and aren't impressed by 1,000 points, but with normal health he likely has 1,400 or 1,500.

He was too good to not make the Hall, and he will make it. There has never been an NHLer as talented as him who's not in the Hall.

He is among the very best skaters in the history of hockey, and among the very best shooters and goal-scorers in the history of hockey.

 

[VistamarCroissants]

The same way everyone knows Canada's biggest city is Oslo.

I guess someone didn't watch hockey 30-35 years ago

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Both those players have better PPG than Mogilny, and better playoff numbers.

Alex won every big championship in the world, scored 76 goals a season, but his PPG was affected by his injuries.

There's a very big gulf between the opinions of those who saw Mogilny before injuries greatly affected his career, and those who are primarily familiar with his later career (part of Vancouver, NJ, Toronto).

He had a lot of injuries: multiple broken legs, major knee and hip injuries, I think multiple concussions...

For almost everybody who saw Mogilny at his best - in the late '80s and the 1st half of the '90s, he is a very easy hall-of-famer. Everybody thought they were watching a future inductee, without a doubt.

These are the ppg leaders for '92 to '96:

1. Lemieux - 2.26
2. LaFontaine - 1.48
3. Lindros - 1.46
4. Gretzky - 1.42
5. Oates - 1.39
6. Mogilny - 1.33
7. Jagr - 1.33
8. Selanne - 1.32
9. Sakic - 1.31
10. Yzerman - 1.31

This is the Mogilny we remember. For me, he is an essential HHOFer, one of the most skilled hockey players ever.

I suspect he would've been drafted 1st overall in the '87 draft if available to play in the NHL. And he is one of the best WJC performers ever. I first saw him play in the Piestany tournament.

I can understand people who weren't around in the early '90s, and aren't impressed by 1,000 points, but with normal health he likely has 1,400 or 1,500.

He was too good to not make the Hall, and he will make it. There has never been an NHLer as talented as him who's not in the Hall.

He is among the very best skaters in the history of hockey, and among the very best shooters and goal-scorers in the history of hockey.

All I can say is bravo

You've nailed it!

 

[Hobnobs]

For my cents he should be in the hhof.

 

[MadLuke]

Alex won every big championship in the world

Except the canada-world cup ?

Canada Cup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

World Cup of Hockey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[wetcoast]

I think he'll get in soon enough, he got stigmatized with the usual "Russian enigma" (although for Mogilny it was probably not fully undeserved like for others), he didn't have the consistency of a lot of his peers, just missed the 500 goal milestone which is always important for things like the Hall of Fame, didn't stay too long on a particular team to become iconic, and he played in a loaded era with tons of talent to get lost a bit.

Agree with all of this.

Obviously at his best and as a talent there are very few who are better than him in the Hall.

Sure but the same could be said of the Magic man too right?

Obviously Mogilny produced more in the NHL and he wouldn't be a bad induction, given the bar for post expansion wingers isn't that high but my guess is that in most years coming up there will be 4 guys at least with a more HHOF type of resume up for election.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Alex won every big championship in the world, scored 76 goals a season, but his PPG was affected by his injuries.

Mogilny scored 7 points in his cup win, lol.

 

[The Panther]

There's a very big gulf between the opinions of those who saw Mogilny before injuries greatly affected his career, and those who are primarily familiar with his later career (part of Vancouver, NJ, Toronto).

He had a lot of injuries: multiple broken legs, major knee and hip injuries, I think multiple concussions...

For almost everybody who saw Mogilny at his best - in the late '80s and the 1st half of the '90s, he is a very easy hall-of-famer. Everybody thought they were watching a future inductee, without a doubt.

These are the ppg leaders for '92 to '96:

1. Lemieux - 2.26
2. LaFontaine - 1.48
3. Lindros - 1.46
4. Gretzky - 1.42
5. Oates - 1.39
6. Mogilny - 1.33
7. Jagr - 1.33
8. Selanne - 1.32
9. Sakic - 1.31
10. Yzerman - 1.31

This is the Mogilny we remember. For me, he is an essential HHOFer, one of the most skilled hockey players ever.

I suspect he would've been drafted 1st overall in the '87 draft if available to play in the NHL. And he is one of the best WJC performers ever. I first saw him play in the Piestany tournament.

I can understand people who weren't around in the early '90s, and aren't impressed by 1,000 points, but with normal health he likely has 1,400 or 1,500.

He was too good to not make the Hall, and he will make it. There has never been an NHLer as talented as him who's not in the Hall.

He is among the very best skaters in the history of hockey, and among the very best shooters and goal-scorers in the history of hockey.

Geez.

Does the fact that Mogilny had only 4 or 5 star-level seasons (out of 16) not bother you at all? So, if you had elite talent up to age 23, that's enough for you?

 

[MadLuke]

Kovalchuck top 10 finish: 2-5-6-8-10
Goals finish : 1-2-3-4-6-6-7-8

They both played about has many game in the nhl in the 900 something.

From 2004 to 2012, Kovalchuck had the most goals in the nhl, was 4th in points, the forward that played the most minutes per game and second overall, his 2012 playoff run his at least equal to anything Mogilny did there (because of injury, who knows what happen in 93, but that what happened).

Talent and soviet storyline aside (not that Kovalchuck was not an really special talent) how much of an argument Mogilny has over Kovalchuck ?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Kovalchuck top 10 finish: 2-5-6-8-10
Goals finish : 1-2-3-4-6-6-7-8

They both played about has many game in the nhl in the 900 something.

From 2004 to 2012, Kovalchuck had the most goals in the nhl, was 4th in points, the forward that played the most minutes per game second overall, his 2012 playoff run his at least equal to anything Mogilny did there (because of injury, who knows what happen in 93, but that what happened).

Talent and soviet storyline aside (not that Kovalchuck was not an really special talent) how much of an argument Mogilny has over Kovalchuck ?

Only way they'd put Kovalchuk in is if they gave any credence to KHL accomplishments like over PPG, 3X KHL All-Star, 3X Gagarin Cup Champion and Playoff MVP. I don't think they will though. A lot of International Accomplishments as well, Olympic Gold and Bronze, and in IIHF World Championships 2 Gold, 2 Silver, 3 Bronze, Olympic MVP in 2018, World Championship MVP in 2009, World Championship Leading Scorer in in 2010 and World Championship Leading Goalscorer in 2013.

There's enough meat there that with all that and just looking at level of play, they could plausibly put Kovalchuk in, but his NHL accomplishments aren't likely to be enough to get in. A Direct head to head shows Mogilny with 156 more points, 30 more goals in 64 more career games played, with Mogilny still holding a fairly healthy lead in Adjusted Points.

You could make a solid argument for Kovalchuk being a better player than Mogilny but with how NHL heavy the HHOF leans, I think Mogilny has a stronger HHOF case.

 

[tabness]

Geez.

Does the fact that Mogilny had only 4 or 5 star-level seasons (out of 16) not bother you at all? So, if you had elite talent up to age 23, that's enough for you?

Not the same thing though, Mogilny carved out a 1000 point career even if he wasn't firing on all cylinders all the time, he certainly enjoyed a degree of longevity as well.

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Mogilny scored 7 points in his cup win, lol.

That was after all the injuries he had in previous years.

A healthy Mogilny scored 7 (same number) hat-tricks in his best season.

 

[MadLuke]

That was after all the injuries he had in previous years.

Yes but people seem to point to that cup win as a reason to get into the HHOF, that answer would be more appropriate to someone claiming he was not a good playoff player, look at the cup run where he scored only 7 pts

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Kovalchuck top 10 finish: 2-5-6-8-10
Goals finish : 1-2-3-4-6-6-7-8

They both played about has many game in the nhl in the 900 something.

From 2004 to 2012, Kovalchuck had the most goals in the nhl, was 4th in points, the forward that played the most minutes per game second overall, his 2012 playoff run his at least equal to anything Mogilny did there (because of injury, who knows what happen in 93, but that what happened).

Talent and soviet storyline aside (not that Kovalchuck was not an really special talent) how much of an argument Mogilny has over Kovalchuck ?

Mogilny is a level above Kovalchuk - he's up there with linemates Fedorov and Bure.

Why Mogilny >>> Kovalchuk:

• Mogilny was a more well-rounded player
• Better puck skills and playmaking
• Better speed, agility, higher hockey IQ
• More impact on international stage,
• plus 76 more other reasons from the one of the coolest NHL seasons ever

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Yes but people seem to point to that cup win as a reason to get into the HHOF, that answer would be more appropriate to someone claiming he was not a good playoff player, look at the cup run where he scored only 7 pts

Well, he was coming out of a serious injury that season.

If he wasn't a good playoffs player, how could he score 7 goals in 7 games when healthy during his peak?

 

[MadLuke]

Well, he was coming out of a serious injury that season.

If he wasn't a good playoffs player, how could he score 7 goals in 7 games when healthy during his peak?

This is not the conversation that was happening.

Someone say, should be in the HHOF, one of the reason being he won the stanley cup
- Someone respond that he was not a big piece on those stacked Devils
- To which someone respond, well that was post prime and lot of injuries pilling on.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Geez.

Does the fact that Mogilny had only 4 or 5 star-level seasons (out of 16) not bother you at all? So, if you had elite talent up to age 23, that's enough for you?

He was a 6 time All Star with no all star game in 1995 (finished 22nd in points and 29th in goals which is all star worthy). So effectively, a 7 time all star. I'm not really sure why he wasn't chosen as an All Star in 1996-97 as he had 40 points in 41 games prior to the All Star Break, then the 1997-98 through 1999-00 seasons are easy to see with injury and then was an All-Star again by 2001 and finally in 2003 despite injury, I think that's pretty good, perennial All-Star level player, in an expanded NHL.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

He's got two 2AST's and one tied Rocket to his name, and his top-10 scoring finishes are 8, 10.

On the other hand, Dino Ciccarelli.

 

[MXD]

I guess someone didn't watch hockey 30-35 years ago

That's the most original argument ever made around here.

 

[MadLuke]

Ciccarelli is a nice example, very similar peak by how some people look at it, scored 73 goals in the playoff, 200 something more games with the 600 goals mark... yet considered weak by many.

Dino Top 10: 6-9
Mogilny top 10: 8-10

From 81 to 96 only the Oilers crew scored more goals in the playoff than Ciccarelli

 

[WarriorofTime]

Let's do one of my favorite exercises, rolling 10-year placements:

1989-90 through 1998-99: 12th in goals/20th in points
1990-91 through 1999-00: 9th in goals/21st in points
1991-92 through 2000-01: 7th in goals/17th in points
1992-93 through 2001-02: 10th in goals/16th in points
1993-94 through 2002-03: 17th in goals/20th in points
1994-95 through 2003-04: 19th in goals/25th in points

Not bad. I like that even when you remove the 1992-93 season from the 10-year sample, you still see a player that is amongst the most productive in the era.

Compare to Dino Ciccarelli

1980-81 through 1988-89: 11th in goals/21st in points
1981-82 through 1990-91: 6th in goals/20th in points
1982-83 through 1991-92: 9th in goals/19th in points
1983-84 through 1992-93: 9th in goals/22nd in points
1984-85 through 1993-94: 11th in goals/24th in points
1985-86 through 1994-95: 8th in goals/19th in points
1986-87 through 1995-96: 10th in goals/20th in points
1987-88 through 1996-97: 12th in goals/29th in points
1988-89 through 1997-98: 18th in goals/39th in points

They seem pretty comparable, Dino with what amounts to a three-year longevity edge, maybe you give Mogilny a bit more love for a more globalized and more teams NHL. Ol' Dino's consistency is a bit undervalued in general most likely with the nasty word compiler to mask a 600 goal career.

 

[MadLuke]

They seem pretty comparable, Dino with what amounts to a three-year longevity edge, maybe you give Mogilny a bit more love for a more globalized and more teams NHL. Ol' Dino's consistency is a bit undervalued in general most likely with the nasty word compiler to mask a 600 goal career.

I would that would be fair to give some Mogilny edge for the larger nhl, but the playoff resume gap would be bigger ? Dino is a bit of a near the net legend that scored at over 40 goals by 82 games pace in the playoff, Mogilny was at 26, 33 before the Devils-low scoring nhl part of his career.

There is some when he left the Wings they start to win (him, Coffey and other have to wear on their legacy) but he was old by then and the Wings lost to really good teams or he did lead them in goals when they did not.

rolling 10-year placements:

Really nice way, a like the 5-7 as well, that where a Modano-Sundin can look quite good versus Top 10 finish., 2-3 points can move a season finish as if it was more than a % of errors, when you look at 3-5-7-10, it get way less noisy.