So, *why* is Alex Mogilny not in the HHOF?

[MadLuke]

How can we know when the contract was signed, we only know when the newspaper learned about it..no ? which was just after he came back, same for if he holded up or not if that was the case, that something that just purely impossible to know has the major leg injury and when you are ok enough to play contact nhl game is extremelly subjective.

Would have had a near career injury and asked to play again with 0 security in that kind of negotiating position (76 goals seasons)....

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I know it’s kinda a “if my aunt had a penis…” type of thing but lets say Maruk has one more big season when he gets to the North Stars, like 100 points or so. Is Mogilny that much better than him?

 

[The Panther]

Yeah, I feel like this whole "Why-isn't-Mogilny-in-the-Hall-of-Fame?" thing is starting to become a bit overblown.

The main reason he's not in the Hall of Fame is... he wasn't a Hall of Famer, by NHL performance. I can't speak to his international hockey credentials much, but maybe that pushes him up (or doesn't it? I don't know).

And yes, he defected successfully... but so did the Šťastný brothers, like, a decade earlier.

People are unfortunately starting to make this into a big deal, when it really isn't. I'm well aware of Hockey Ref's "Adjusted Stats" flaws, but to give Mogilny's NHL results some context:

Player with TWICE as many 'adjusted' 40-goal seasons as Mogilny:
-- Ilya Kovalchuk
Players who have more 'adjusted' 40-goal seasons than Mogilny:
-- Rick Martin
-- Peter Bondra
-- Theoren Fleury
Players who have the same number of 'adjusted' 40-goal seasons as Mogilny:
-- Joe Pavelski
-- John Tavares

 

[Gorskyontario]

1 of Mogilny's best 5 seasons was in a contract year. His 76-goal season was not a contract year.

So why was Mogilny so bad during non contract years?

 

[MS]

So why was Mogilny so bad during non contract years?

I mean, he wasn't really :

1990-91 - 83 points/80 GP
1991-92 - 100 points/80 GP
1992-93 - 139 points/84 GP
1993-94 - 100 points/84 GP (coming off broken leg)
1994-95 - 88 points/82 GP
1995-96 - 111 points/82 GP

So for that 6-year period he *averaged* 105 points/82 GP.

Then we get to the 1996-2000 period, and as a Canuck fan I watched basically every one of those games. And I've never seen a player more mis-used and under-utilized than Mogilny was.

His Cs through that period were guys like a washed Mike Ridley, a washed Peter Zezel, Mike Sillinger, and so on. He usually played on the 2nd line. The teams absolutely stunk. He was also constantly hurt or coming back from an injury.

He still averaged about 70 points/82 through that period at the heart of the DPE. And I'm well aware that the general Canuck fan perception is that he was a lazy underachiever but I profoundly disagree - I thought he was by far the team's best player and best defensive player (check out the goal differentials relative to the rest of the team through that period) despite generally being asked to make lemonade out of lemons.

Then he gets traded, has 2 big years out of the next 3, and then he's old and his body breaks down.

The 1999-00 season in particular looks underwhelming on paper before his trade. 47-21-17-38. Whoopee. But he was playing 2nd line minutes (with the likes of Steve Kariya for a big chunk of the year) and playing on PP2. And he was absolutely fantastic, but nobody then or since really seemed to give him credit for it.

ES points/82, 1999-00

Mark Recchi (3rd in NHL scoring) - 50
Paul Kariya (4th) - 57
Teemu Selanne (5th) - 56
Owen Nolan (6th) - 45
Tony Amonty (7th) - 59
Mike Modano (8th) - 52
Joe Sakic (9th) - 79 *would have won Art Ross if healthy
Steve Yzerman (10th) - 48

Alex Mogilny - 54

Dude was basically performing at an elite level that year on par with the biggest superstars having the best seasons in the league (outside of the Jagr/Bure/Sakic trio) despite 2nd line usage, but because he got hurt and didn't get PP points everyone thinks it was some sort of crappy season.

 

[Gorskyontario]

I mean, he wasn't really :

1990-91 - 83 points/80 GP
1991-92 - 100 points/80 GP
1992-93 - 139 points/84 GP
1993-94 - 100 points/84 GP (coming off broken leg)
1994-95 - 88 points/82 GP
1995-96 - 111 points/82 GP

So for that 6-year period he *averaged* 105 points/82 GP.

Then we get to the 1996-2000 period, and as a Canuck fan I watched basically every one of those games. And I've never seen a player more mis-used and under-utilized than Mogilny was.

His Cs through that period were guys like a washed Mike Ridley, a washed Peter Zezel, Mike Sillinger, and so on. He usually played on the 2nd line. The teams absolutely stunk. He was also constantly hurt or coming back from an injury.

He still averaged about 70 points/82 through that period at the heart of the DPE. And I'm well aware that the general Canuck fan perception is that he was a lazy underachiever but I profoundly disagree - I thought he was by far the team's best player and best defensive player (check out the goal differentials relative to the rest of the team through that period) despite generally being asked to make lemonade out of lemons.

Then he gets traded, has 2 big years out of the next 3, and then he's old and his body breaks down.

The 1999-00 season in particular looks underwhelming on paper before his trade. 47-21-17-38. Whoopee. But he was playing 2nd line minutes (with the likes of Steve Kariya for a big chunk of the year) and playing on PP2. And he was absolutely fantastic, but nobody then or since really seemed to give him credit for it.

ES points/82, 1999-00

Mark Recchi (3rd in NHL scoring) - 50
Paul Kariya (4th) - 57
Teemu Selanne (5th) - 56
Owen Nolan (6th) - 45
Tony Amonty (7th) - 59
Mike Modano (8th) - 52
Joe Sakic (9th) - 79 *would have won Art Ross if healthy
Steve Yzerman (10th) - 48

Alex Mogilny - 54

Dude was basically performing at an elite level that year on par with the biggest superstars having the best seasons in the league (outside of the Jagr/Bure/Sakic trio) despite 2nd line usage, but because he got hurt and didn't get PP points everyone thinks it was some sort of crappy season.

He did well from 91-95 because of Lafontaine and Hawerchuk.

 

[MS]

He did well from 91-95 because of Lafontaine and Hawerchuk.

Virtually every player who puts up elite numbers does so because they played with other elite players.

He scored 55 goals playing on a line with Cliff Ronning and a crippled late-career Esa Tikkanen. He wasn't some sort of fraud.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Virtually every player who puts up elite numbers does so because they played with other elite players.

He scored 55 goals playing on a line with Cliff Ronning and a crippled late-career Esa Tikkanen. He wasn't some sort of fraud.

He was scoring like 40 points a year on Vancouver, lol.

 

[VistamarCroissants]

He was in the conversation around 92-93

Why should Mogilny be in? He was never in the conversation for best player in the league for any meaningful length of time, he was a notable example of a player who coasted, didn't stick around one team to build up the "fame" element, won a Stanley Cup but was largely a non-factor, numbers are not particularly overwhelming for an offence only forward. His escape story is interesting at least and he was more talented than he cared to show most of the time.

There's enough smoke that he will get in eventually but it's another case where they are moreso inducting the numbers/skillset rather than the player.

 

[VanIslander]

gimpy & lazy

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Mogilny deserves to be in the HHOF:

- A pioneer among the Soviets who defected to the NHL ( and correct me if I'm wrong, Alex scored a goal after 15 seconds on his first shift)
- Olympic champion, Stanley cup champion, World Champion, World Junior Champion
- One of a very few men on this planet who can tell you what it feels like when you score your 76th of the season

A spectacular, outstanding career, worthy of a movie script.

Forget Fleury, Roenick et al. Mogilny is your man for the HHOF

 

[JackSlater]

He was in the conversation around 92-93

Not really. Had a big year in a season where more people than ever had a big year, and was still the clear second banana on his own line. Great season and great player at times but even in 1993 he wasn't part of that conversation on any meaningful level.

A lot of the players who should have been the best players in the NHL in the mid to late 1990s weren't. Mogilny is one of those guys but he is one of the few where injuries weren't really the main reason.

 

[MXD]

He was in the conversation around 92-93

He wasn't even in the conversation for the best player on his line.

(okay @JackSlater had the exact same point as I)

 

[Voight]

Because winning a Rocket doesnt make you a HOF'er?

7/9 point finishes
1/3/6 goal finishes
2x AS-2
Rocket

Honestly, his case is no better than Tkachuk or Brind'amour

Given they inducted Carbonneau, there's nor Eason RBA or Lehtinen shouldn't be in.

 

[JackSlater]

Given they inducted Carbonneau, there's nor Eason RBA or Lehtinen shouldn't be in.

I can't articulate why but I'd be much better with Lehtinen getting in than I would with Brind'Amour. I don't like the argument that one player getting in opens the door for others though. Kevin Lowe getting in shouldn't usher in a new era of solid second pairing defencemen making the HHOF.

 

[Hobnobs]

Not really. Had a big year in a season where more people than ever had a big year, and was still the clear second banana on his own line. Great season and great player at times but even in 1993 he wasn't part of that conversation on any meaningful level.

A lot of the players who should have been the best players in the NHL in the mid to late 1990s weren't. Mogilny is one of those guys but he is one of the few where injuries weren't really the main reason.

Maybe not the main reason but he did get three seasons in Vancouver kinda ruined by injuries.

 

[JackSlater]

Maybe not the main reason but he did get three seasons in Vancouver kinda ruined by injuries.

That is true and I did consider it, but I don't think it permanently altered Mogilny. Even Jagr didn't make it out of that era totally unscathed.

 

[Hobnobs]

That is true and I did consider it, but I don't think it permanently altered Mogilny. Even Jagr didn't make it out of that era totally unscathed.

No I dont think they were career altering in terms of future performance but I do think that missing significant amount of games during one's prime do hurt his pedigree a bit. Although it was Keenans nucks so it probably wouldn't be looked at favourably that much either way.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Forget Fleury, Roenick et al. Mogilny is your man for the HHOF

Both those players were way better than Mogilny.


I'm not even against Mogilny being in, but he's being severely overrated on this thread.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Not really. Had a big year in a season where more people than ever had a big year, and was still the clear second banana on his own line. Great season and great player at times but even in 1993 he wasn't part of that conversation on any meaningful level.

He wasn't even in the conversation for the best player on his line.

(okay @JackSlater had the exact same point as I)

the substance of this i don’t disagree with. mogilny was not meaningfully in the running for best player in the league ever, really.

but between him and lafontaine, i don’t think it’s clearcut which one was the main guy on that line, at least at ES. to me, they each pushed the other to a whole other level.

i’m not going to run the stats again but i’ve done this before and it shows is from their time together starting in the 1991-92 season up to the end of the 92-93 season, mogilny outscores lafontaine at ES. it’s a very slim margin but considering that one is a winger and the other at center, that says something about mogilny as a driving force.

the large point discrepancy is the direct result of roles on the PP. there, mogilny is the clear fourth option, behind hawerchuk running the point, lafontaine as the center, andreychuk in front of the net.

reminds me of lecavalier and MSL and later stamkos and MSL in tampa, where there were a few years where the center got way too much credit vs the winger.

and i’d add that if you look at the rest of their careers, lafontaine and mogilny are fairly close. lafontaine has his big 1990 season as a bad team scorer, mogilny has 1996 centered by cliff ronning.

outside of their run together and their other peak season, lafontaine’s top 20 placements are 16 and 18, and a pair of years just outside of the top 20, mogilny’s are two 15s and a year just outside the top 20. even their career totals are extremely similar if you account for lafontaine playing from 85 to 89 before mogilny entered the league and mogilny playing his later prime from 98 through the lockout after lafontaine was forced into retirement.

not a diss on lafontaine, i just think mogilny doesn’t get enough credit as an elite ES producer. even before he broke out, on a per game basis he was already a top fifteen ES scorer (handily ahead of his teammates hawerchuk and turgeon) in 1991, his second year.