So, *why* is Alex Mogilny not in the HHOF?

[Takuto Maruki]

See thread title. Especially now that Roenick is in (even though there's probably valid arguments to be made he is more a Hall of Very Good player, they're not going to leave off the most notable American player of the 90's and early 2000's off for long) I really don't understand the reasoning as to why Mogilny hasn't had anywhere close to a sniff.

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[jigglysquishy]

He never finished top 5 in points. It's a really low bar.

I do think he'll get in one day. There's been a bit of an opening of arms to 90s era stars recently (Vernon, Roenick, Turgeon, Barasso, Zubov). He fits the bill.

 

[tabness]

I think he'll get in soon enough, he got stigmatized with the usual "Russian enigma" (although for Mogilny it was probably not fully undeserved like for others), he didn't have the consistency of a lot of his peers, just missed the 500 goal milestone which is always important for things like the Hall of Fame, didn't stay too long on a particular team to become iconic, and he played in a loaded era with tons of talent to get lost a bit.

Obviously at his best and as a talent there are very few who are better than him in the Hall.

 

[DitchMarner]

His career averages and accumulated totals look quite good and he was obviously supremely talented, but he didn't have that many elite seasons and lacked consistency in his prime (and was hurt quite often). He also wasn't that good in the playoffs for such a skilled player.

But I think he'll get in eventually. There's a lot of talk that he should be in and I expect him to be inducted fairly soon.

 

[MadLuke]

If we keep it to Roenick getting in first instead of Mogilny

500-goals-1200 pts are big shinny numbers versus 473g and 1032

In a row prime, 91-94 Roenick was seen as a face of the nhl, cup finals, one of the best player of the EA NHL games, really big personality high first round draft pick, in terms of fame that all "legit" argument going in his favor.

From 1991-1994 he is number 1 among center in goals, 4th in points, in an era that was quite deep, thats higher than Gilmour, Sakic, Turgeon, Fedorov, Messier. Only Hull, Robitaille had more goals.

Mogilny was not that far from that between 93 to 96, but split among 2 different franchise, 94-95 lock-out season, zero playoff success, did not felt the same.

And that could be a different reason, does being the face of a franchise help, just in voter mind or actual organization pushing for you, Mogilny travelled a lot, not sure if any team would lobby for him much

While more talented than the Damphouse, Brind<amour, not so sure if he should and is ahead of them in the waiting list, they were much bigger part of stanley cups win than Mogilny has a borderline top 6, third liner on the super stacked devils.

 

[seventieslord]

How do you know he "hasn't had anywhere close to a sniff"?

 

[JackSlater]

Why should Mogilny be in? He was never in the conversation for best player in the league for any meaningful length of time, he was a notable example of a player who coasted, didn't stick around one team to build up the "fame" element, won a Stanley Cup but was largely a non-factor, numbers are not particularly overwhelming for an offence only forward. His escape story is interesting at least and he was more talented than he cared to show most of the time.

There's enough smoke that he will get in eventually but it's another case where they are moreso inducting the numbers/skillset rather than the player.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Russian. Higher bar to get respect.

 

[Crosby2010]

I don't think he should be inducted because he is one of those players that has gotten in that has had the blessing of time make people forget some things during his career. I think if Chris Osgood gets in he'll benefit from this. I think Phil Housley definitely benefitted from this and Pierre Turgeon did as well. It makes people's memories of them grow and then we gloss over their careers and forget just why they weren't considered among the elite at the time. This is part of the reason why the Veteran's committee was abolished. While they did pick some guys who were wrongly overlooked, they also picked some guys who got in based on sentiment or other reasons. Mogilny might be the sentimental choice. Just for starters, even as RWers he is behind Fleury and Middleton alone just to get in.

A lot of people have covered the reasons why he isn't in yet. And I agree with them. Because at the time he was this coasting-type of player who everyone and their mother knew had more talent and skill to dominate a game if he wanted to. Once in a while he did. But then we forget that in the middle of his prime he had three straight seasons of 45, 45 and 44 points. It is true these weren't full seasons, but they were 60 game seasons. And when he was traded to the Devils in 2000 as a trade deadline deal more or less, it wasn't thought to be a blockbuster deal. It wasn't as if the Devils all of the sudden were going to win the Cup. They did win the Cup, but Mogilny had 7 points that entire playoff. How many 30 year old future Hall of Famers were a nothing burger for their team in a Cup win in their prime? 2 points in the finals. Then the next year he was better with 16 points in the playoffs en route to a Cup final, but then invisible with 3 points in 7 games in the final. The Devils could have used some of his magic since the Avs were missing Forsberg. Where was he? They won the Cup in 2000 because they were routinely contenders, not because they made a trade for him. And the trade was a young and - at the time - disappointing Brendan Morrison and Denis Pederson for Mogilny. Really, he didn't command a lot in a trade.

7th, 9th, and two 15th finishes in points? Meh. He finished 18th in Hart voting in 1996, and that was his only Hart votes of his career. Twice a 2nd team all-star, that's nice, but then 7th and 10th at his position? RW was strong but he still should have stood out more than that. Even a center with backlog at his position ranks higher than that. And 86 points in 124 playoff games is not something that tilts the ice his way.

 

[JackSlater]

Russian. Higher bar to get respect.

Absolutely, that must be it. That's why all of the eligible players who outscored him but aren't in the HHOF are Russians. Bobby Smithov, Theo Fleuryovich, Keith Tkachukin and so on. Guys with similar or better cases, all kept out for being poor, poor Russians.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Absolutely, that must be it. That's why all of the eligible players who outscored him but aren't in the HHOF are Russians. Bobby Smithov, Theo Fleuryovich, Keith Tkachukin and so on. Guys with similar or better cases, all kept out for being poor, poor Russians.

Mogilny should absolutely be in by all standards. He got all the usual “Russian enigma” nonsense over his career. The existence (taken for true for discussion of purposes) of other puzzling inclusions/exclusions wouldn’t make the reasoning behind this particular one untrue because of other reasons. Turgeon took a long time despite an easy HHOF resume for not joining a brawl for instance.

 

[MadLuke]

Mogilny should absolutely be in by all standards. He got all the usual “Russian enigma” nonsense over his career.

Would you more than Damphousse, Bondra, Fleury, Brind'amour, Weight, Elias ?

Not that I named people that I feel should be in, but I am not sure their case is obviously and significantly enough weaker to prompt anti-Russian sentiment as a reason.

Since Mogilny entered the nhl in 1990, 43 players scored more points in the regular seasons, 82 scored more in the playoff, considering how much of his prime was played in high scoring hockey (90-97) and that he is a mostly offensive guy without much narrative to help (playoff storyline, big gold medal missing 98 and 2002 completely or canada cup moment), he has some nice story and accomplishment pre-nhl and those maybe if they were Canadian juniors equivalent would be more highly valued I am not sure how much he would be already in without having to wait with 0 Russian enigma talk around him.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Mogilny has golds in the Olympic, World Championships, World Juniors and a Stanley Cup.

Alex also scored 76 goals in 77 games during the 1992-93 season, only 5 other players have scored 76 of more goals in one season Phil Esposito, Teemu Selanne, Brett Hull, Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky (twice).

 

[JackSlater]

Mogilny should absolutely be in by all standards. He got all the usual “Russian enigma” nonsense over his career. The existence (taken for true for discussion of purposes) of other puzzling inclusions/exclusions wouldn’t make the reasoning behind this particular one untrue because of other reasons. Turgeon took a long time despite an easy HHOF resume for not joining a brawl for instance.

Make the argument for Mogilny then rather than crying that he's Russian, a bad argument given that there are players with better cases who are not Russian and sit outside the HHOF. Turgeon was also a bad addition to the hall of fame, and the 1987 WJC explanation is one of this site's common lazy attempts to seem smart. It basically never came up during his career - the only reason anyone even discusses it is Gare Joyce's book, which came out when Turgeon was in his late 30s and when his reputation was already very firmly established. It's an argument that belongs with Norris voters being unable to understand defence until Lidstrom won a Norris and Lindros being physically unable to skate with his head up among those who are desperate to seem informed.

 

[Professor What]

I think the fact that Mogilny is being suggested as a slam dunk goes to show just how watered down the Hall has become.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Make the argument for Mogilny then rather than crying that he's Russian, a bad argument given that there are players with better cases who are not Russian and sit outside the HHOF. Turgeon was also a bad addition to the hall of fame, and the 1987 WJC explanation is one of this site's common lazy attempts to seem smart. It basically never came up during his career - the only reason anyone even discusses it is Gare Joyce's book, which came out when Turgeon was in his late 30s and when his reputation was already very firmly established. It's an argument that belongs with Norris voters being unable to understand defence until Lidstrom won a Norris and Lindros being physically unable to skate with his head up among those who are desperate to seem informed.

Alright Jack no need to get worked up. The case has been made many a times. Here’s a recent discussion for your viewing.



Don’t act like it’s a ridiculous proposition or that you’ve got your head buried in the sand that Russians get more stigmatized as has been the case for multiple generations which likely carries over to a hhof committee headed by a blowhard like Brian Burke.

 

[Professor What]

Alright Jack no need to get worked up. The case has been made many a times. Here’s a recent discussion for your viewing.



Don’t act like it’s a ridiculous proposition or that you’ve got your head buried in the sand that Russians get more stigmatized as has been the case for multiple generations which likely carries over to a hhof committee headed by a blowhard like Brian Burke.

If you want to make the case that Russians are stigmatized, I wouldn't use Mogilny to make it. Use any one of a number of Soviet players that have wrongly been shunned.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

Truthfully, it's this video that made me want to make this thread. I know the broad strokes of the arguments against Mogilny, but truthfully I feel like this section probably has a better finger on the pulse of the debate around him then anything on the main board / Twitter which is much more looking at vibes or highlight clips.

 

[JackSlater]

Alright Jack no need to get worked up. The case has been made many a times. Here’s a recent discussion for your viewing.



Don’t act like it’s a ridiculous proposition or that you’ve got your head buried in the sand that Russians get more stigmatized as has been the case for multiple generations which likely carries over to a hhof committee headed by a blowhard like Brian Burke.

I've seen that video, it stinks. I assume that it was the reason for the thread. Is there a good case for Mogilny though? The video doesn't make it. I'm aware that you are very, very invested in Russia and Russian hockey so I'm sure you believe what you are saying, but sometimes a player really does float around without giving that much effort even if they are Russian. Mogilny, like Turgeon, was rightly regarded during his career as a player who you couldn't rely on to bring it every time. It's only when people forget the player and start focusing on the numbers and highlight reels that it becomes an injustice that people remember these players as they were.

 

[Staniowski]

Mogilny is a certainty to be inducted, and I think everybody knows it.

First thing to note is that it's a lot more difficult to be inducted now than it's ever been. The pool of talented players is a LOT bigger in recent decades. This is especially true of Mogilny's generation, of which there are several more future inductees. There's a big backlog.

Mogilny is an easy hall-of-famer. Even the stars and superstars who played with and against him (and coached him, and against him) are in awe of his skating, stickhandling, and shooting skills.

Mogilny was at his best working in tandem with other talent. Watch him with LaFontaine or Fedorov. Mogilny was a dynamo. A truly beautiful talent.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Mogilny Mo Problems

 

[tabness]

Mogilny is a certainty to be inducted, and I think everybody knows it.

First thing to note is that it's a lot more difficult to be inducted now than it's ever been. The pool of talented players is a LOT bigger in recent decades. This is especially true of Mogilny's generation, of which there are several more future inductees. There's a big backlog.

Mogilny is an easy hall-of-famer. Even the stars and superstars who played with and against him (and coached him, and against him) are in awe of his skating, stickhandling, and shooting skills.

Mogilny was at his best working in tandem with other talent. Watch him with LaFontaine or Fedorov. Mogilny was a dynamo. A truly beautiful talent.

Almo could separate or synergize between his hands and feet like very few others, literally perfect finesse talent, only thing you could ask for when he played was more size, but in today's NHL he'd be perfect

 

[Gorskyontario]

Did people here watch him play? He was only good during contract years and terrible in the playoffs.

There are worse players in, so he will get in eventually. Roenick(who isn't exactly a strong induction) was much more impactful.

 

[Stephen]

Why should Mogilny be in? He was never in the conversation for best player in the league for any meaningful length of time, he was a notable example of a player who coasted, didn't stick around one team to build up the "fame" element, won a Stanley Cup but was largely a non-factor, numbers are not particularly overwhelming for an offence only forward. His escape story is interesting at least and he was more talented than he cared to show most of the time.

There's enough smoke that he will get in eventually but it's another case where they are moreso inducting the numbers/skillset rather than the player.

The HHOF's bar for entry is way lower than "best player in the league for any length of time." If guys like Joe Mullen and Dino Ciccarelli are in, Mogilny deserves to be there. Plus he's a pioneer for how he got to the NHL in the first place.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i don’t see a single reason why mogilny shouldn’t be waiting in line behind fleury