So, why did Gretzky leave St.Louis in 1996?

[Ziggy Stardust]

From the New York Times when Gretzky was dealt to St. Louis:
HOCKEY;Finally, Gretzky Is Traded to Blues

When asked if he had come to contract terms with the Blues, Gretzky said, "I have nothing written down," and that he could still go free on July 1. But Gretzky is expected to come to terms soon with St. Louis.

In 62 games this season, Gretzky led the Kings with 81 points, 15 of them on goals.

Keenan, the former Ranger coach, was the first and most vocal N.H.L. executive to express interest in Gretzky, talking in January about the possibility of him joining the Blues. Although the St. Louis team has been cutting back on its budget, Keenan said in January that Gretzky's presence creates economic opportunities.

A month earlier, there was this report:
HOCKEY;Rangers (and Fans, Too) Get Even With Keenan

Keenan also continued to talk about the possible acquisition of Wayne Gretzky from the Los Angeles Kings. Gretzky and his agent, Mike Barnett, have been openly discussing Gretzky's options.

"We're very interested," Keenan said when asked if he would try to get Gretzky if he becomes available. "Wayne fits into the economics of the industry and particularly our situation as an entity unto himself."

Gretzky's agent is expected to meet with the Kings' owners tomorrow. He has some leverage. If they don't accommodate his wishes to acquire new players and they don't trade him, Gretzky can leave the Kings without compensation in the summer.

 

[Normand Lacombe]

From the New York Times when Gretzky was dealt to St. Louis:
HOCKEY;Finally, Gretzky Is Traded to Blues


A month earlier, there was this report:
HOCKEY;Rangers (and Fans, Too) Get Even With Keenan

Why didn't LA filing tampering charges against St. Louis? Keenan was talking about acquiring Gretzky while he was still a King.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Why didn't LA filing tampering charges against St. Louis? Keenan was talking about acquiring Gretzky while he was still a King.

For the most part, Sam McMaster was incompetent, and I’m going to guess he didn’t want to ruffle any feathers since he was friends with Wayne and St. Louis was probably his only realistic trading partner.

 

[Staniowski]

The original offer was reported 3 years for almost 23 million. That offer was yanked after the Detroit series. The revised offer was 2 years for about 14 million.

Okay, so they acquire Gretzky in late February, sometime around that time the Blues make Gretzky a verbal offer for 3 years, no contract is signed at this time (for whatever reason), then after the playoffs the Blues reduce the offer to 2 years, and for less money?
This happens because the Blues are unhappy with Gretzky's play? Or is there something else going on?

 

[FerrisRox]

When Gretzky was traded to St. Louis the media reports were worrying how small market Blues were going to come up with the $21 million it would likely take to sign Gretzky in the summer.

You're not remembering this correctly. The Blues were one of the highest spending teams in the league and were known, at that time, for handing out the largest free agent contracts. They had inked Dale Hawerchuk, Joe Murphy, Grant Fuhr and Geoff Courtnall to expensive free agent deals. Handing Gretzky $7 million a season wasn't going to be an issue, in fact, the reported offer matched that figure.

 

[VanIslander]

The original offer was reported 3 years for almost 23 million. That offer was yanked after the Detroit series. The revised offer was 2 years for about 14 million.

Ah. Thanks for that.

I had heard it would take $21 million... which is consistent with the info you give... Gretzky wasn't gonna accept 2 years at $7 mill per.

If the reason for the lowball offer wasn't economics, what was it?

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

Gretzky absolutely wanted to stay in St Louis. Keenan, baffilingly, didn't want to keep him. That's all there is to it. Sad really.

Gretzky still spends the majority of his time here in St Louis. Wife is from here. He didn't want to leave.

 

[The Panther]

Gretzky absolutely wanted to stay in St Louis. Keenan, baffilingly, didn't want to keep him.

What's your reasoning on this?

 

[Admiral Awesome]

So where do the Canucks fit into all of this? My understanding is that if not for over-aggressive (and mildly belligerent) Vancouver management, Gretzky returns to Canada in '96.

 

[member 83027]

Gretzky absolutely wanted to stay in St Louis. Keenan, baffilingly, didn't want to keep him. That's all there is to it. Sad really.
.

What's your reasoning on this?

There is no reasoning on it.

It was all Jack Quinn.

People want to blame Keenan for everything. They need to start realizing Jack Quinn is/was the issue.

 

[Staniowski]

There is no reasoning on it.

It was all Jack Quinn.

People want to blame Keenan for everything. They need to start realizing Jack Quinn is/was the issue.

Ok, but what exactly was the issue?

Jack Quinn changed the contract offer from 3 years to 2 years - why did he do this? And is this the reason Gretzky went elsewhere?

 

[Samhain]

Ok, but what exactly was the issue?

Jack Quinn changed the contract offer from 3 years to 2 years - why did he do this? And is this the reason Gretzky went elsewhere?

Janet has ties to ST. LOUIS and Keenan after a playoff loss lambasted and blamed Gretzky for the loss, That really wrecked it and when his old pal MESSIER told him to come play in NEW YORK with Him he jumped at the chance. Unfortunately MESSIER bailed on his good friend and took a Huge Money Contract from the Vancouver Canucks (Which Gretzky was offered before going to New York).

Had PAT QUINN Not call Gretzky at 5am or 6am & DEMAND that Wayne Sign the Contract so Pat Quinn could go back on his vacation in the Bahamas or wherever he was then GRETZKY would have been a Vancouver Canuck. It's too bad too cuz Gretzky played with Crap on a BAD team when MESSIER left. Yes once in a while KOVALEV (Who was ALWAYS Hot & Cold) would play a little bit with #99 but Gretzkys Sniper on the Rangers was NIKLAS SUNDSTROM ( Who NEVER Scored 30 Goals in a Season & turned out to be a bust, It's too bad Rangers didn't get MARK RECCHI, THEO FLEURY or PAVEL BURE (#99 said he would have played one more year had the Rangers got BURE).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There is no reasoning on it.

It was all Jack Quinn.

People want to blame Keenan for everything. They need to start realizing Jack Quinn is/was the issue.

Seems like a lot of media sources also backup the claim that it was Keenan who rescinded Gretzky's contract offer and that there was tension between the two.

Gretzky Is No Lone Ranger

Although Gretzky agreed to be traded to St. Louis in February, he had no intention of returning because he was unhappy with Mike Keenan, the coach and general manager whom he felt insulted him during the playoffs by questioning his lack of production.

Gretzky, who had played for Keenan only sparingly in Canada Cup tournaments, hadn't anticipated the duress of playing for the hard-driving Keenan every day. In addition, Keenan separated Gretzky and his close friend, winger Brett Hull, despite saying he had acquired Gretzky to play with Hull and raise each other's level of play.

The Blues discussed giving Gretzky a three-year, $21-million contract before the playoffs but rescinded that and later offered a two-year deal that would have been worth $12-14 million. He rejected that last month.

The Blues actually still thought they had a shot at re-signing Gretzky after pulling their initial offer.
BLUES CONFIDENT GRETZKY WILL BE BACK IN FOLD

The St. Louis Blues on Saturday appeared pretty confident that they will soon sign Wayne Gretzky.

Team president Jack Quinn and Gretzky's agent, Mike Barnett, have been negotiating a contract in St. Louis the last two days while the Blues hosted the NHL Entry Draft.

The deal is believed to be worth $14 million over two years.

The Blues had offered a three-year, $21 million deal, but pulled it off the table when Gretzky slumped in the playoffs. Gretzky, 35, can become a free agent July 1 but Blues general manager Mike Keenan doesn't think it will come to that.

This is the second article I've seen that suggested that Gretzky wouldn't sign with a team led by Mike Keenan.
St. Louis Blues History: Wayne Gretzky Leaves

The front office tried to smooth things over, but Gretzky said he would never sign as long as Keenan was in charge.

This article also mentions Gretzky's strained relationship with Mike Keenan.
Rangers To Sign Gretzky, Official Word Comes Today

The season ended in disappointment for Gretzky and apparently a deterioration of his relationship with coach Mike Keenan, who admonished the all-star center in front of the team for what he considered a sub-par playoff performance.

When Gretzky joined the Blues, he was reportedly offered a three-year deal worth about $7 million per year. By the time the playoffs were over and the Blues were out after the second round, the team had pulled that off the table and was offering less money and a shorter-term contract.

Apparently Gretzky never felt the length of the deal was important.

“It wasn’t the third year that was important,” the Post’s source said. “Wayne wanted to come to New York. Two years was never an issue for him.”

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Just to add further support to Keenan's vindictive ways.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

A few more links to share that support the claim that Gretzky wasn't too fond of Keenan.

Gretzky's Blue period was all too brief

When the Blues dropped the first two games in Motown, an unfavorable outcome seemed inevitable. Keenan benched Gretzky for much of the third period of an 8-3 loss in Game 2, then singled him out for criticism afterward.

Maybe the future would have been different. Winning solves problems, losing lets them fester. The relationship between Keenan and Gretzky turned acidic, exacerbated during the Detroit series. Reportedly, the Blues pulled a three-year, $23 million contract off the table.

Keenan Is Out As the Coach Of the Blues

That exit came despite the acquisition of Gretzky in February. During the series with Detroit, Keenan complained publicly about the play of his best players. He didn't mention Gretzky by name, but it was clear that the Great One was included on Keenan's list.

 

[The Panther]

Thanks for the links, stories, and posts. I do wonder if Gretzky wasn't just unwilling to put up with Keenan at this stage of his career, knowing that the end was near. Maybe he'd forgotten what Keenan was like, or hoped he'd mellowed a bit since 1991...

I'm not clear why Keenan would be complaining about the play of Gretzky -- or any of the Blues, really -- during the Detroit series, in which St. Louis over-achieved.

 

[member 83027]

Seems like a lot of media sources also backup the claim that it was Keenan who rescinded Gretzky's contract offer and that there was tension between the two.

Where does it say Keenan is the one who rescinded the offer?

It was Jack Quinn who btw is the same person who continued to negotiate with Barnett. If Keenan is the one who rescinded why wasn't he the one doing the negotiating?

People who believe Keenan was the one who rescinded the other also probably think Ron Caron had full control over all the trades he made (or should I say forced to make).

Quinn was scum. Plenty of examples but the easiest is how he planted the Stevens tampering evidence and is then one who had it reported so the Blues would get nailed after he was fired.

People are acting like players not liking Keenan is some great revelation. If the contract would not have been pulled Gretzky would have stayed in St Louis.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

At the time I just saw the move to New-York as a way for Wayne to reunite with a lot of his former Oilers buddies( although the Blues had quite a few on their roster too) , plus Keenan being hard to get along with. In retrospect , going to NY didn't do much for his career, outside of better media exposure.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Where does it say Keenan is the one who rescinded the offer?

It was Jack Quinn who btw is the same person who continued to negotiate with Barnett. If Keenan is the one who rescinded why wasn't he the one doing the negotiating?

People who believe Keenan was the one who rescinded the other also probably think Ron Caron had full control over all the trades he made (or should I say forced to make).

Quinn was scum. Plenty of examples but the easiest is how he planted the Stevens tampering evidence and is then one who had it reported so the Blues would get nailed after he was fired.

People are acting like players not liking Keenan is some great revelation. If the contract would not have been pulled Gretzky would have stayed in St Louis.

I think it more or less answers why Gretzky didn't return to St. Louis. It had less to do with the contract length and more to do with having to play for Mike Keenan.

 

[member 83027]

I think it more or less answers why Gretzky didn't return to St. Louis. It had less to do with the contract length and more to do with having to play for Mike Keenan.

Does it?

If that is your point now why did you go this route previously with the claim Keenan pulled the offer?

Seems like a lot of media sources also backup the claim that it was Keenan who rescinded Gretzky's contract offer and that there was tension between the two.

People seem to also forget Gretzky had 100% control if & where he was traded to. I am not saying people were dying to play for Mike Keenan but Gretzky had experience playing for him previously and I think it can be assumed he had plenty of conversation (including Hull) about Keenen before he agreed to be traded to the Blues. Of course people can change their thoughts but the end of Gretzky's tenure here started with the contract offer being pulled. It's that simple.


Then of course you have this.....

While during the playoffs, Gretzky's play was lackluster and there was a question about his conditioning. Especially after Game 2 of the Detroit Series where they got blown out in Motown, the Blues started to get cold feet. Words along the lines of 'How can we afford to pay this guy Megabucks if he is not in shape' were heard from the boys from 14th & Clark. This led to the now famous removal of the contract offer from the table.

Sources have told me that Gretzky and his agent were devastated by this move. The Great One seemed to genuinely want to end his career with the Blues. Yet, the removal of the offer simply insulted Number 99 and money was no longer the object.

This was a blown opportunity by Blues Management. Despite popular opinion or hope, this crisis was not created by, or the result of, Mike Keenan. He simply is the Coach and General Manager. When you are talking about the big money involved, this decision must be made by the Head Honcho .

Jack Quinn, Come on Down!!. Despite dodging criticism for this organization's sins of the past, this fiasco rests squarely in his lap. Right, wrong or indifferent, the buck stopped at his desk on such major decisions/acquisitions and he was the lead negotiator.

Once it was obvious that negotiations had broken down for good, Blues Management reacted in their typical damage control style: finger pointing and excuses wielding.

Soon, the Kiel Partners will meet to review the results of the past season and plan for the future. Quinn and his front office staff will have to answer to the Gretzky case. Mike Shanahan and Harry Ornest are not around to respond to the questions from "the Suits" this year.

But as I told Danny, all parties should accept blame--and that includes Gretzky. At the February news conference the Great One bubbled over the opportunity to play for the Blues, their fans, and his buddy Brett Hull. Unfortunately though, for whatever reason, Gretzky simply was not in the best of shape when he put on the BlueNote. Keenan insisted that he play a minimum of 30 minutes a game; a reasonable request for the team's Captain and highest paid player. Unfortunately, he was simply ineffective for the duration of most games.

Then came the well documented "discussion" between Keenan and Gretzky about his performance. It was common knowledge that Gretzky has thin skin about criticism and does prefer a coach who will not rock Wayne's World. However, Keenan is Keenan: the Boss-- Pure and Simple. Whether the players like it or not, it is their job to play and it is Keenan's job to coach. If either party fails to execute, the proper chain of command should review the performance.

Hence, once the Blues pulled their offer from the Table, Gretzky's ego was bruised. It became the beginning of the end. Both parties grew cold toward each other and this happy marriage ended in divorce after four and one-half months.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

In other words, Gretzky didn't want to play for Mike Keenan? That's a long winded way of pretty much saying exactly what others have said. And Keenan was accused of pulling the offer off the table during the playoffs as a tactic, whether it be to negotiate a better deal or to motivate Wayne, who knows.

Curious to understand why Keenan is being absolved of any responsibility for Wayne opting not to re-sign in St. Louis? Is it out of question to think Wayne didn't want to play with Keenan after all that is written about their relationship? Or Hull's comments with regards to how Keenan treated his trainers and a veteran like Dale Hawerchuk isn't enough to support that he would pull of a stunt like pulling a contract offer during the playoffs?

 

[member 83027]

In other words, Gretzky didn't want to play for Mike Keenan? That's a long winded way of pretty much saying exactly what others have said. And Keenan was accused of pulling the offer off the table during the playoffs as a tactic, whether it be to negotiate a better deal or to motivate Wayne, who knows.

Curious to understand why Keenan is being absolved of any responsibility for Wayne opting not to re-sign in St. Louis? Is it out of question to think Wayne didn't want to play with Keenan after all that is written about their relationship? Or Hull's comments with regards to how Keenan treated his trainers and a veteran like Dale Hawerchuk isn't enough to support that he would pull of a stunt like pulling a contract offer during the playoffs?

Maybe one day you will get it right and realize it was Jack Quinn who pulled the contract offer and that is what started everything in leading Gretzky to not sign with the Blues.

The way things are going I really doubt it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Maybe one day you will get it right and realize it was Jack Quinn who pulled the contract offer and that is what started everything in leading Gretzky to not sign with the Blues.

The way things are going I really doubt it.

No need to be insulting. I've just used a number of sources that discussed a rift in the relationship between Keenan and Gretzky and a number of sources, and the men involved have even touched on the very subject. Gretzky also understood that maybe the Blues wanted to go younger and he didn't fit into their grand scheme.

Maybe both people who assert Keenan was a reason and you suggesting Jack Quinn pulled the offer can be right? The way things are going, I really doubt it. It seems lost on you that Keenan was part of the reason Gretzky didn't want to return to St. Louis.

 

[member 83027]

No need to be insulting. I've just used a number of sources that discussed a rift in the relationship between Keenan and Gretzky and a number of sources, and the men involved have even touched on the very subject. Gretzky also understood that maybe the Blues wanted to go younger and he didn't fit into their grand scheme.

Maybe both people who assert Keenan was a reason and you suggesting Jack Quinn pulled the offer can be right? The way things are going, I really doubt it. It seems lost on you that Keenan was part of the reason Gretzky didn't want to return to St. Louis.

I have been consistent in my posts in this thread.

Jack Quinn is the one who pulled the offer. The pulled offer is what lead Gretzky to go elsewhere.

I have no problem with people saying Keenan was a reason why Gretzky didn't sign here. I have never said in any post that was not a so called reason. I will say if the original offer wasn't pulled there was a pretty darn good chance that Gretzky signs here regardless of Keenan.

I do not agree when someone says it was Keenan who pulled the offer and don't understand the pulled contract is what pushed him out the door.

 

[The Panther]

At the time I just saw the move to New-York as a way for Wayne to reunite with a lot of his former Oilers buddies

That might have been the case in spring '94, but by autumn of '96, there was only Messier and Jeff Beukeboom whom Wayne knew from Edmonton (and he played with Beukeboom for only 1.5 seasons).