So, what if the goalie contract we need to get rid of is Mrazek's?

[HockeyinHD]

Admission: I watched 4 of the past 5 games in two back to back sessions, so imagine how annoyed you were at the ends of those recent games but being only halfway done with them. I may be overreacting here.

So, what if Mrazek is actually this hot and cold at the NHL level? I didn't think it was possible given how consistent he was in the AHL, but considering we're now going on about 4 straight months where he's elite or outright awful game to game, and you have no idea which is which until the game starts, it's something to at least consider.

The Howard contract is bad. No doubt. It may be the more desirable one to retain. This is craziness.

At any rate, pretty soon the team is going to have to decide who to stick with past this season because there are too many flaws at other positions to allow the team to float 9+ mil in net through next season. One guy or the other has to go, and oh my God I can't believe this is still a question.

Click to read more...

 

[Heaton]

Yeah... Let's have this discussion in January or February before we pretend like Howard isn't 32 and hasn't been below average the last few seasons. He's having a great start, but his numbers and level of play is not sustainable.

 

[Frk It]

I only trade Mrazek if I can get a top 10 pick out of it, a la Corey Schneider.

Otherwise I keep the younger/cheaper/better goalie, and frankly it's a no-brainer.

And if the driving factor behind this thread is that Mrazek is hot and cold and Howard isn't, I suggest you look at Jimmy's numbers the last 2-3 seasons. Jimmy is also very injury prone when asked to be a starter and only getting older.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

Unless they're elite, goalies are always a roll of the dice it seems to me.

If the wings are going to have to make a decision between Mrazek and Howard at some point, go with the younger of the two and hope it works out as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SirKillalot]

Right now Mrazek is at Howards level and is much younger, also his best is a lot better than Howard's best, even though his worst is worse as well.

It's worth taking an estimated gamble on that he will continue to improve and not regress. Howard won't become any better.

 

[Claypool]

Right now Mrazek is at Howards level and is much younger, also his best is a lot better than Howard's best, even though his worst is worse as well.

It's worth taking an estimated gamble on that he will continue to improve and not regress. Howard won't become any better.

I don't agree that Mrazek's best is better than Howard's best (whatever that means). Howard, when healthy, is a very good goalie. He's been healthy so far this season and its showing. Give him goal support and you'll win a lot more of your games than lose. Howard's style of play is much more reliable when he's on.

Mrazek is simply too unpredictable right now, and the coach knows this. You have no idea what kind of game you'll get from him, and that's dangerous if you're relying on him as a starting goaltender.

 

[Eastopia]

Just out of my memory, Howard was great to start last season and we know how that changed as the season went on. The same thing happened the season before - and the one before that. I'd be a bit more cautious before I could agree to move Mrazek instead of him, and even then it'd take a lot.

Besides, I trust Mrazek way more than Howard when the playoffs come around, consistent or not. He just seems to rise up to that challenge a lot better than Howard ever has.

 

[Dotter]

Trade Mrazek. No point in paying $10 million per year for goalies. Howard has been better and Mrazek's contract would have more return. The obvious choice for me is trade Mrazek while he has value.

 

[Claypool]

Just out of my memory, Howard was great to start last season and we know how that changed as the season went on. The same thing happened the season before - and the one before that. I'd be a bit more cautious before I could agree to move Mrazek instead of him, and even then it'd take a lot.

Besides, I trust Mrazek way more than Howard when the playoffs come around, consistent or not. He just seems to rise up to that challenge a lot better than Howard ever has.

Howard's problem is his inability of rebounding from injuries mid-season. I don't believe he was injured much last season, but the two prior seasons (13-14 & 14-15) he had knee and groin issues that saw him go on IR. Remember when he needed to be carted off the ice on a stretcher? Not sure what happened last season, but when Howard is healthy and a starter he's been good. The numbers don't lie.

As for the playoffs, Howard has way more postseason success than Mrazek. There's nothing to argue there.

 

[Ezekial]

Trade Mrazek. No point in paying $10 million per year for goalies. Howard has been better and Mrazek's contract would have more return. The obvious choice for me is trade Mrazek while he has value.

When Howard was Mrazek's age he had less than 10 NHL starts.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

lol seriously?

 

[Winger98]

I only trade Mrazek if I can get a top 10 pick out of it, a la Corey Schneider.

Otherwise I keep the younger/cheaper/better goalie, and frankly it's a no-brainer.

And if the driving factor behind this thread is that Mrazek is hot and cold and Howard isn't, I suggest you look at Jimmy's numbers the last 2-3 seasons. Jimmy is also very injury prone when asked to be a starter and only getting older.

yeah, for the right return, deal either of them. All things being equal, keep Mrazek. Howard's 32 and has fought injuries throughout his career, so it's unlikely we have a bunch of years left in him regardless. If neither of these guys are going to be dependable full-time goalies then we better hope Coreau develops in a good way.

 

[Goalie guy]

This is not the answer at all.

 

[Run the Jewels]

We can expect to lose Mrazek in the expansion draft for nothing and keep Howard because he's heavy and has decent stats in October and November. Howard's post seaon success is laughable, Anaheim outscored us in the one series he "won".

 

[ricky0034]

I said it at the time and i'm getting more and more convinced of it as time goes on

I really think keeping an injury prone backup in Gustavsson around that long was a huge mistake

Mrazek kept bouncing back and forth between leagues because of it,often sitting on the bench and thus not even playing in either league and I really think it may have hurt his consistency long term

 

[Claypool]

I said it at the time and i'm getting more and more convinced of it as time goes on

I really think keeping an injury prone backup in Gustavsson around that long was a huge mistake

Mrazek kept bouncing back and forth between leagues because of it,often sitting on the bench and thus not even playing in either league and I really think it may have hurt his consistency long term

Mrazek played 135 games in the ECHL and AHL, including playoffs, for three years before becoming the backup for Detroit. That's an average of 45 games per year. I fail to see how him playing 25-30 additional games over that timespan could affect his development positively or negatively.

 

[SoupNazi]

We can expect to lose Mrazek in the expansion draft for nothing and keep Howard because he's heavy and has decent stats in October and November. Howard's post seaon success is laughable, Anaheim outscored us in the one series he "won".

Yep, I'm positive that's how the scenario is going to unfold.

 

[Eastopia]

Howard's problem is his inability of rebounding from injuries mid-season. I don't believe he was injured much last season, but the two prior seasons (13-14 & 14-15) he had knee and groin issues that saw him go on IR. Remember when he needed to be carted off the ice on a stretcher? Not sure what happened last season, but when Howard is healthy and a starter he's been good. The numbers don't lie.

As for the playoffs, Howard has way more postseason success than Mrazek. There's nothing to argue there.

Okay, he consistent in starting off hot, then getting injured halfway through and sucking for the rest of the season. That still has him sucking for half the sesson consistently.

The only reason you can say Howard has more playoff success than Mrazek is obviously because he has played behind vastly superior versions of the Wings. Two seasons ago Mrazek outplayed him so Howard didn't even get a start; last season Mrazek came in and showed he should have been the first choice even despite his struggles late in the regular season. Howard has never been particularly good in the playoffs; Mrazek has.

 

[HIFE]

I only trade Mrazek if I can get a top 10 pick out of it, a la Corey Schneider.

Otherwise I keep the younger/cheaper/better goalie, and frankly it's a no-brainer.

And if the driving factor behind this thread is that Mrazek is hot and cold and Howard isn't, I suggest you look at Jimmy's numbers the last 2-3 seasons. Jimmy is also very injury prone when asked to be a starter and only getting older.

Interesting question and a good answer.

If the organization's decision making is as lukewarm as shown they may not see the dire need, like a logical fan would, to choose only one. We essentially have (for a 2nd season) two starters who are capable of winning. As phenomenal as Mrazek can be there is a risk- and Holland hates taking chances. Would he pay 9 mil say for the next two seasons as insurance? It seems possible.

 

[jkutswings]

Assuming Howard continues to play well, he likely has 2-4 useful years left. In that timespan, this roster isn't going anywhere fast, not to mention that, for whatever reason, Howard tends to get less goal support than Mrazek. So why hang on to the expensive veteran yet again, if he's not going to make the difference?

Either Mrazek manages to flip the switch and find consistency, or some other young goaltender will be called upon. But Howard would have to become the next Jonathan Quick or Tim Tomas in the playoffs to drag these Wings anywhere meaningful, and his track record suggests that would be EXTREMELY unlikely for him to accomplish, both from a talent ceiling and an injury history.

 

[SirKillalot]

I don't agree that Mrazek's best is better than Howard's best (whatever that means). Howard, when healthy, is a very good goalie. He's been healthy so far this season and its showing. Give him goal support and you'll win a lot more of your games than lose. Howard's style of play is much more reliable when he's on.

Mrazek is simply too unpredictable right now, and the coach knows this. You have no idea what kind of game you'll get from him, and that's dangerous if you're relying on him as a starting goaltender.

Meaning is that even though Howard is a very good goalie. Mrazek is a great goalie at his best.

Let's say we have a rating scale of 0-100. Howard is more consistent at this moment in terms of delivering performances you would rate between 70-85, with most in the mid 70's.

Mrazek delivers more performances in the 90+, but also more below 70. However, I got more faith in him being able to increase his consistency on a regular basis (85 perfomances, meaning not giving up **** goals, better at rebound recovery, better at smothering the puck, etc) than Howard ever winning a series for us, or stealing a series for us (if Howard doesn't control the first shot, we're done, he's bad at recovery and slow).

Howard won't win us games (or more importantly Championships) in the playoffs, Mrazek will (Even though at this moment, he might lose some for us too).

I'm all on the Larkin+Mrazek train on this one.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

Alot of goalies go hot and cold. That shouldn't be the deciding factor on who to keep.

I'm no fan of Holland as a GM for the past few years or so, but if there's one thing I would hope he still has a clue about, it would be what to look for in a goalie. He was a former goalie(as was Blashill) before jumping into scouting and management. Sure it was awhile ago, but that's not something you suddenly forget, not when you've been so closely a part of the sport between that time and now.

Besides, I'm pretty sure KH has already tipped his hand on which goalie the team wants to go forward with, when he said this past summer that "moving Howard might be the best for this organization".

Granted, him saying it and actually able to do it are 2 totally different things.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I don't agree that Mrazek's best is better than Howard's best (whatever that means). Howard, when healthy, is a very good goalie. He's been healthy so far this season and its showing. Give him goal support and you'll win a lot more of your games than lose. Howard's style of play is much more reliable when he's on.

Mrazek is simply too unpredictable right now, and the coach knows this. You have no idea what kind of game you'll get from him, and that's dangerous if you're relying on him as a starting goaltender.

At 32, how exactly does Howard fit into the future of this team? Do you somehow expect us to become truly competitive during the three (maybe?) goodish years he may have left? Come rebuild time, do you really want to be stuck looking for a number one center, number one defensemen and a starting goalie?

 

[Claypool]

Okay, he consistent in starting off hot, then getting injured halfway through and sucking for the rest of the season. That still has him sucking for half the sesson consistently.

The only reason you can say Howard has more playoff success than Mrazek is obviously because he has played behind vastly superior versions of the Wings. Two seasons ago Mrazek outplayed him so Howard didn't even get a start; last season Mrazek came in and showed he should have been the first choice even despite his struggles late in the regular season. Howard has never been particularly good in the playoffs; Mrazek has.

Prior to when his injuries started to occur Howard was getting 35+ wins a season with respectable individual numbers. This team has basically had four very good years with Howard, two years where Howard was injured and inconsistent, and one year where Howard was the backup. There's more evidence to suggest that, when healthy, Howard is a good goaltending option. It's proving to be correct so far this season.

Howard has won three playoff series so far. Mrazek hasn't won any. Mrazek wasn't very good last post-season against Tampa. He was very good the season before, but still couldn't get it done. Those are just the facts.

I'm not even a Howard supporter. Mrazek is clearly this team's starting goaltender option long-term. I'm just saying that I think a lot of us (including myself) were wrong to so quickly anoint Mrazek as an incoming Vezina finalist. His game still has obvious warts that he has to correct. For a team that is struggling to score consistently every night and is weak defensively, relying on a goaltender that has erratic play is not a good option right now.

At 32, how exactly does Howard fit into the future of this team? Do you somehow expect us to become truly competitive during the three (maybe?) goodish years he may have left? Come rebuild time, do you really want to be stuck looking for a number one center, number one defensemen and a starting goalie?

Howard doesn't fit the future of this team, which is why he'll be moved as soon as someone shows any interest in acquiring him. He'll be moved not because he's the lesser goaltending option, but because the salary cap demands that he be moved.

 

[Tatar]

lol seriously?

My thought exactly