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So what happened to Hannu Toivonen ?

Dude was drafted right around the time where Finnish goalies were becoming big news. Lethonen, Kippursoff etc.

He was overrated as a result. The injury problems didn't help but he was never that great to begin with.
 
Lost Horizons said:
big equipment:

03-04 2.30 .921
04-05 2.05 .932

the nhl changed the pad size after the lockout

small equipment before the ankle injury

05-06 2.63 .914

his gaa went up and his save percentage went down. I wonder why that was? and his numbers kept going down after that and even years later after his ankle injury his numbers are terrible.
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Provide some context sir or maam.

2003-04 Providence Bruins AHL 36 0 12 2162 83 0 2 2.30 15 16 4 972 0.921 - - -
2004-05 Providence Bruins AHL 54 0 19 3017 103 0 7 2.05 29 18 3 1404 0.932 17 0 2
2005-06 Boston Bruins NHL 20 0 6 1163 51 0 1 2.63 9 5 4 539 0.914 - - -

The first two seasons are the AHL, the other is the NHL. That may be a difference. Scoring also went up across the board due to the power play increase in the 2005-06 season. (the league GAA went from 2.46 to 2.93 2003-04 to 2005-06 which is about how much Hannu's GAA jumped) He had his high ankle sprain in 2006 of that season and here is the next season.

2006-07 Boston Bruins NHL 18 0 2 894 63 1 0 4.23 3 9 1 439 0.875 - - -

He never recovered back to himself in that season.
 
Lost Horizons said:
big equipment:

03-04 2.30 .921
04-05 2.05 .932

the nhl changed the pad size after the lockout

small equipment before the ankle injury

05-06 2.63 .914

his gaa went up and his save percentage went down. I wonder why that was? and his numbers kept going down after that and even years later after his ankle injury his numbers are terrible.
Click to expand...


His numbers went down because those are AHL numbers, not NHL numbers.

He definitely had an amazing butterfly and was probably the most flexible goalie I have ever seen in my life. I recall him having a poor glove hand and weak rebound control. He was excellent before the ankle injury on a terrible bruins team. After the ankle injury he just wasn't the same.
 
weaponomega said:
His numbers went down because those are AHL numbers, not NHL numbers.

He definitely had an amazing butterfly and was probably the most flexible goalie I have ever seen in my life. I recall him having a poor glove hand and weak rebound control. He was excellent before the ankle injury on a terrible bruins team. After the ankle injury he just wasn't the same.
Click to expand...

I'm glad I'm not the only one saying this.
 
Loved his atletichism, everything suggest he would become a solid goaltender at the time. It's incredibly difficult to predict how someone's career will turn out, some times you are right, some times you are wrong.
 
The feeling in Finland was that injuries and mental weakness got him. He just didn't have the toughness to bounce back from a bad goal or bad game etc

But today, he's starting to actually look very good once more:

Toivonen, Hannu Sport GP 26 TOI 1491:40 W 8 T 4 L 12 Saves 739 GA 63 SO 1 GAA 2,53 SAV% 92,14

that save % puts him 5th in all Liiga goalies once you take out those with less than 20 games, on the worst team in the league. To give some illustration of how bad that team is - their backup has played 11 games at a GAA of 4,15. I doubt we'd ever see him in the NHL again, but suiting up for Finland at the World Championships some year is doable if he keeps this up

Goaltending still is the mysterious jedi-art of the sports world, goal scorers are national heroes, the ones kids are naturaly drawn to supporting and wanting to emulate. Only a few master the Jedi art of goaltending, some like Toivonen have their blood full of Midi-chlorians. But the wrong circumstances, upbringing, management and choices can ruin all of that. Toivonen didn't get it together as a 18-25 year old when he as a young goalie should have figured it out, now at 30 he seems to have matured and got it - but too late and he misses out on the fame and fortune he was destined for.
 
WarriorOfGandhi said:
I love reading those old threads. It's entertaining to go back to drafts of past years and see the posts of "________ is a steal" of a guy who never even played a single NHL game
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Yep. Year 2004 draft's biggest steals were Lauri Tukonen and Marek Schwarz.
 
jumptheshark said:
goalies are a gamble on a good day--let alone a bad day. He had a good run the year of his draft and his stock went up He just did not have reflecesses and quickness for the NHL and ahl

the vote on that thread is pretty funny
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I disagree completely with your assessment, reflexes and quickness were actually some of Toivonen's biggest strengths prior to his injury woes.

Toivonen's weakness was probably that he sometimes dropped down into a butterfly stance too early and got beat up high.

tp71 said:
Not really. I got lucky enough to see him live in Hameenlinna in the World Jrs. He had the best butterfly I've probably ever seen. He was a very good goaltender with high potential. He had a bad high ankle sprain with the Bruins and was never the same again. His best season was 05-06 when the equipment changes were first made. So your assertion is far from true. Injuries did him in.
Click to expand...

weaponomega said:
His numbers went down because those are AHL numbers, not NHL numbers.

He definitely had an amazing butterfly and was probably the most flexible goalie I have ever seen in my life. I recall him having a poor glove hand and weak rebound control. He was excellent before the ankle injury on a terrible bruins team. After the ankle injury he just wasn't the same.
Click to expand...

These posts are correct. I came here to basically post what weaponomega said. I have to say Toivonen is still the most flexible goalie I have ever seen.

His career was derailed by unlucky injuries, I believe he got the high ankle sprain from the net falling awkwardly on his leg and this happened after a great start to the season on a poor Bruins team. He was one of few bright spots on that team.

IIRC his following season was derailed early on by a knee injury when he was battling for the starting position with Tim Thomas. It didn't help his confidence that they brought in Manny Fernandez to backup Thomas either.

I feel the Bruins lacked patience in developing him properly and gave up on him too soon.
 
What is the modern day version of that poll?

I bet in the summer a Gibson vs Mason MacDonald vs Demko would of saw some similar results with Gibson romping.. Can't wait for hindsight to tell whether it's right..
 
I think it was a mix of him more or less purely relying on his athleticism and being susceptible to leg injuries.
 
What I find most interesting about threads like that is that it should be such an obvious lesson in how volatile prospect development is, yet you often find posters in threads like these ones that still talk the same way. Some people just never learn.
 
tarheelhockey said:
If we had a thread right now of which 2014 draftee goalie would have the best career, it would likely turn out the same way.
Click to expand...

Which makes posts like this:

Hannu Toivonen, now and forever. This one isn't even close.
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and this:

Have you guys seen Tuukka Rask or Carey Price play?
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Yep, both have the potential to be decent starters, but Hannu has star potential.
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Sound even more hilarious when posters make claims about prospects.
 
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