KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
Really need to come away with a minimum of 20 points in this 16 game stretch that includes 13 at home.
So, we panic yet?
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Really need to come away with a minimum of 20 points in this 16 game stretch that includes 13 at home.
The Butcher
Mammoth Mooseknuckles Hockey
This is a little off topic but I didn't want to start a new thread but...
I was thinking, since the Kings won't visit washington dc this season will the team get a chance to visit the white house and meet the president? Regardless of partisan politics, I think that's a huge honor for any team. Plus it'd be cool to see the leader of the free world in a kings jersey.
I was thinking, since the Kings won't visit washington dc this season will the team get a chance to visit the white house and meet the president? Regardless of partisan politics, I think that's a huge honor for any team. Plus it'd be cool to see the leader of the free world in a kings jersey.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
What happened during the Cup visit in 1995 for the Devils? Or were they able to make due to being in the east and travel not being an issue?
deeshamrock
Registered User
.
The Kings will be visiting the White House to be honored. There was a thread for that on page 8 of the Kings HF Boards if you want to read it. The LA Galaxy will also be honored at the same dinner.
The article about the visit is "
http://redondobeach.patch.com/artic...ident-barack-obama-los-angeles#photo-10099644
THe LA Times also had an article about the White House visit
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/11/sports/la-sp-sn-kings-galaxy-white-house-20130111
I was talking to some Oilers fans in a thread on the trade forum and I asked about Hemsky because I've always wanted him to be on the Kings, and they were talking about a deal centered around Stoll and Hemsky, with us adding a little. They were looking for size and a stay at home defenseman.
One proposal had us shipping out Stoll, King, Scuderi for Hemsky, Lander, and a choice of Whitney/Peckham.
Then I asked about a package of Hemsky and Paajarvi, they proposed Stoll and Voynov/Martinez (our choice) for Hemsky and Paajarvi.
Told them Voynov is basically off limits but Stoll and Martinez would be very interesting if we were at full strength with Greene and Mitchell. I was still hesitant to give up Martinez because I've always liked him and felt he was a good player for us, and a part of our defense isn't exactly all that young (Mitchell, Scuderi).
But the fact that's Stoll's name was thrown around in two Hemsky proposals makes me think he'd be too much to give up in a Paajarvi deal.
I would look into the King + Muzzin for Paajarvi deal that you speculated.
A Martinez for Paajarvi straight up trade would also get me thinking, but I'd be a bit hesitant if pressed for a quick answer. I'd have to think about it for a while. But given our alleged defensive depth down on the farm, and the addition of Ellerby, I'd be inclined to pull the trigger.
If our defense was at full health, I would accept the Stoll and Martinez for Hemsky and Paajarvi deal.
Even though I'm a Stoll supporter, I think that would definitely improve our offense long term. We have enough capable centers with Kopi, Richards, Carter, Lewis, Fraser. A defense of Doughty, Voynov, Greene, Mitchell, Scuderi, with Ellerby slotted in for Martinez would be fine with me, especially if we are truly well-stocked on the farm on the blueline.
I would love the speed, skill, and playmaking that Hemsky and Paajarvi would bring to this offense. It would give us an element that I feel we are currently lacking, as only Jeff Carter really has a lot of speed to burn in our top 6.
The Butcher
Mammoth Mooseknuckles Hockey
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Interesting discussion.
I'd be very gaurded of trading any D-men right now outside of Drewiske/Muzzin/Ellerby/Campbell right now, given that Drewiske and Scuds are UFA after the season and we have no idea what's going on long-term with Greene and Mitchell.
Also, the bolded made me laugh. No offense, and I do understand where you are coming from, but Stoll has 9 goals in his last 92 games and makes about $3.6 mill as a cap hit. He's on pace for 10 points this season. I'd imagine we'd have to add to Stoll to get Paajarvi, just on the presence of the cap hit we'd be unloading.
Stoll's value would be similar to what Smyth's value is now, that of a top 9 forward with leadership (assuming Smyth has any) and expereince. I think he'd produce more in Edmonton, but I question if he even has another 40 point season in him at this stage.
I think there could be something there to the Muzzin + King for Paajarvi and a 4th discussion though. Would address some needs for both teams, especially if done in the off-season or at the tarde deadline assuming we get Mitchell/Greene/Martinez back.
I think LA fans tend to underrate Stoll's value. Shocking, a fan base actually under-valuing one of their own players
Stoll seems to be the player that a lot of fans like to get on when things aren't going well. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I've always been a pretty big fan of his. And while his point and goal totals have taken a big hit over the past two seasons, part of that is because he's been pushed down to third line center after the addition of Richards.
Stoll is an excellent asset on face offs, he plays pretty well defensively, he'll throw his body around, he has a wicked slap shot, and he's a good penalty killer. He's 30 years old, so he's probably got at least 2-3 years left of good hockey in his prime. There are plenty of teams looking for a guy like that to be their 2nd or 3rd line center, depending on who they already have.
You look at a team like the Oilers, and I think they would value Stoll pretty highly, especially with Shawn Horcoff out with an injury and on the back nine of his career. You have two young offensive minded skill guys at center in Nugent-Hopkins and Gagner, who lack great size and don't really fit the prototype of great two way centers. A guy like Stoll, with his abilities in the face-off circle and to play a third-line checking/shutdown type role with his veteran leadership would definitely help that team. That's why I think Stoll could be the main piece in a deal for Hemsky rather than Paajarvi.
And the Oilers are loaded on the wing with Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Hemsky, Paajarvi, Hartikainen. I would think they would definitely consider a swap around Stoll and Hemsky with the Kings potentially adding a little bit, given that they've been back and forth on whether to trade/keep/sign/let walk Hemsky over the past few years.
I think the Muzzin and King package you suggested is more in the ballpark of what the package could be for Paajarvi. Even a Martinez for Paajarvi swap would be in the ballpark of fair value in my opinion (if our defense wasn't decimated).
I'd be hesitant to trade Martinez even with our defense at full strength, because Mitchell has one more year left and I think the Kings could be moving on from Scuderi after this season given that Dean is always looking to get better while getting younger. Unless Scuds settled for a one or two year deal, I could see Dean saying thanks for everything you've done and moving on.
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
Martinez alone has more value then mps Your under estimating him. Martinez is a proven number 6 defenseman that was playing top 4 mins and looking good. Msp while a good prospect isnt worth more then martinez He still isnt proven anything in nhl.
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
Imo king alone would be a fair trade for msp but i still dont see dl tradeing with tambo from edmonton.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
I think LA fans tend to underrate Stoll's value. Shocking, a fan base actually under-valuing one of their own players
Stoll seems to be the player that a lot of fans like to get on when things aren't going well. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I've always been a pretty big fan of his. And while his point and goal totals have taken a big hit over the past two seasons, part of that is because he's been pushed down to third line center after the addition of Richards.
Stoll is an excellent asset on face offs, he plays pretty well defensively, he'll throw his body around, he has a wicked slap shot, and he's a good penalty killer. He's 30 years old, so he's probably got at least 2-3 years left of good hockey in his prime. There are plenty of teams looking for a guy like that to be their 2nd or 3rd line center, depending on who they already have.
You look at a team like the Oilers, and I think they would value Stoll pretty highly, especially with Shawn Horcoff out with an injury and on the back nine of his career. You have two young offensive minded skill guys at center in Nugent-Hopkins and Gagner, who lack great size and don't really fit the prototype of great two way centers. A guy like Stoll, with his abilities in the face-off circle and to play a third-line checking/shutdown type role with his veteran leadership would definitely help that team. That's why I think Stoll could be the main piece in a deal for Hemsky rather than Paajarvi.
And the Oilers are loaded on the wing with Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Hemsky, Paajarvi, Hartikainen. I would think they would definitely consider a swap around Stoll and Hemsky with the Kings potentially adding a little bit, given that they've been back and forth on whether to trade/keep/sign/let walk Hemsky over the past few years.
I think the Muzzin and King package you suggested is more in the ballpark of what the package could be for Paajarvi. Even a Martinez for Paajarvi swap would be in the ballpark of fair value in my opinion (if our defense wasn't decimated).
I'd be hesitant to trade Martinez even with our defense at full strength, because Mitchell has one more year left and I think the Kings could be moving on from Scuderi after this season given that Dean is always looking to get better while getting younger. Unless Scuds settled for a one or two year deal, I could see Dean saying thanks for everything you've done and moving on.
Hey, I like Stoll too, but I also recognize the fact that $3.6 million a season demands more than a six goal season like last year, or his current pace for like 10 points this year.
If Stoll was more reasonably priced, at like say $2.5 million or less, the deal would make sense. But with the cap dropping next year, that extra cap hit will be hard to move.
When I talked to the Oilers fans I originally thought Martinez was too much to give up for MPS too. I've always liked Martinez so I don't want to be accused of selling him short. I think he can definitely play top 4 minutes on this team, the only thing is he is a guy that likes to join the rush and play a little more offensively. We like to pair an offensive guy with a defensvie/shutdown guy (like Doughty/Scuds or Voynov/Mitchell).
If everyone was healthy this year, and with Doughty and Voynov clearly our top two puck movers, Martinez will almost always be relegated to bottom pairing minutes. So the thought of flipping him for MPS, a potential top 6 winger with speed (which we could use), definitely interested me, especially since one of our organizational strengths is said to be our depth on the blue line down on the farm. I didn't say I would definitely do it, I'd have to think about it, but I'd be inclined to say yes because I think going forward MPS can be more of a difference maker than Martinez, even though I'm a big fan of what A-Mart has done for the Kings.
I also think MPS has more trade value than King. MPS was a first round selection a few years ago, ranked very highly by Central Scouting and all the experts, and is only 21. He's an exceptional skater who was said to have top 6 talent. King is a grinder who isn't a great skater, is limited offensively, and is two years older than MPS. I can't see the Oilers just throwing Paajarvi away for that. Maybe a Muzzin and King package but not just King.
Didn't Stoll take a paycut in terms of AAV when he re-signed? I though the cap hit on his new deal was $3.25 million? That seems like a pretty reasonable number when you consider Dave Bolland is a pretty similar player with some more offensive upside and is getting $3.375 million.
I think if we shopped Stoll, there would be decent demand for him even at his cap hit. I think last year in the playoffs Stoll proved how valuable it is come playoff time to have a guy like him, Just like how Dave Bolland really proves his worth for Chicago in the playoffs despite only being a 30-40 point guy in the regular season. To have that third center who is great on faceoffs and can play a shutdown game is something teams are always looking for, which is why at the deadline guys like Pahlsson and Gaustad always seem to be in high demand.
What are your thoughts on Hemsky if he was available? Would you consider a package of Muzzin, King, and Stoll for Paajarvi and Hemsky?
Rorschach
Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
I consider MPS to be the same value as Loktionov was to us. And Stoll is not a player a contender can trade. And I'm automatically hanging up the phone if Martinez's name is mentioned unless someone like Alzner is coming back.
For this run we don't have much to trade...we have one spare forward for the top 6 (Gagne), one spare for bottom six (Richardson), no goalies we can trade (gotta keep Bernier for playoffs, there's no number 3 in our system), we're already playing depth AHL defensemen and we're low on picks and prospects.
Unless we get a rental UFA for a pick who makes perfect sense for us this run (like Iginla) I don't see us making any trades.
For this run we don't have much to trade...we have one spare forward for the top 6 (Gagne), one spare for bottom six (Richardson), no goalies we can trade (gotta keep Bernier for playoffs, there's no number 3 in our system), we're already playing depth AHL defensemen and we're low on picks and prospects.
Unless we get a rental UFA for a pick who makes perfect sense for us this run (like Iginla) I don't see us making any trades.
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The Kings like to play an uptempo system based on quick breakout passes and a strong forecheck. It's not free-wheeling like the Oilers' play, it's very structural. It's a possession offense where they succeed by gaining the redline at a high clip and maximizing offensive zone time with pressure and physical play.
I would be genuinely concerned that Hemsky would actually break into pieces. MPS might fit in, he's got a lot of talent and some great wheels. What concerns me is his numbers have dropped into nothingness, and that's on a team with a wide open style. He needs to be on the top lines to succeed, and he's a bottom 6'er in LA.
Stoll fits our style of play perfectly, and King fits it pretty damn good as well. This team is just starting to roll so I don't see any roster moves being made any time soon.
Rorschach
Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
I'd be more afraid Hemsky would be broken into pieces by Sutter like Sloth would beat on a Fratelli.
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
Scottkmlps
Registered User
Gotta love how the mainstream media was all over the Kings when they got off to a slow start, but now that they've won 5 of their last 6, and are 1 point out of a playoff spot with games in hand, not a peep from the mainstream media.
Now they are where they were expected to be. Meeting expectations doesn't make headlines. Failing to reach them, or over-exceeding them does.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Stoll's cap hit is $3.25, you are correct. It wasn't much of a pay cut though, going down from $3.4 last year, and still overpaid in my opinion. Bolland for the record has twice the points that Stoll does over the past two seasons, so he does deserve a higher cap hit, not to mention I'm sure most would agree he holds a better trade value.
Stoll does have value to many teams, what I was trying to state is that to a team like Edmonton, he doesn't hold much value right now. Maybe in a year or two when the playoffs are a reality, but right now the idea of dealing a young guy for a veteran doesn't likely hold much appeal to them.
I wouldn't be worried about Hemsky in this system. Williams does well in it too, and he was somewhat similar prior to coming to the Kings. The player adjusts to the team and the system.
I'd be ok with us getting Hemsky, but my main drawback is that he's not that goalscorer we need. He's more of a playmaking winger with speed, and while the speed would be nice, we are relying to much of Carter to score goals, rather than having a secondary shooter. One guy I'd like to see us go after if they fall out of the playoff picture is Michael Ryder.
All good points made by various posters.
I would agree that I'd be hesitant to trade Martinez even if we were fully healthy because he's a good young defenseman on a team with two important guys getting up there in age in Mitchell and Scuds. I've always been a fan of his game, but a player of MPS's caliber definitely gets me thinking, especially when we have Doughty and Voynov locked in as our top 4 puck movers for the for-seeable future.
I don't think Hemsky would be a poor fit here, but I do agree the Kings need more of a sniper/finisher than a playmaker, which is more of what Hemsky is. I don't buy that notion that he's made of glass. I have always loved his combination of speed and sick hands.
I don't think Loktionov and MPS have the same value to the Kings. Lokti was seen as a center stuck behind Kopi, Richards, Stoll, and even Lewis and Fraser. MPS could be a potential top 6 winger on this team, especially with Gagne/Penner on expiring deals.
Stoll was an important piece in the playoffs last year and I'd have a hard time parting with him too, but being able to roll out Kopitar, Carter, and Richards as centers with Fraser as the fourth while adding two top 6 wingers with speed like Hemsky and MPS would be very enticing IMO. This team is too reliant on Jeff Carter's speed and scoring.
I'm just a little worried going into the playoffs having trouble scoring again. Last year we got it done in the postseason, but this team has struggled to score for most of the season once again, and I think this team could use at least one and maybe two top 6 wingers.
I'd also be interested in a Mark Fraser type of defenseman for this team at the deadline. Big physical guy who can clear the front the front of the net, throw his body around, block shots, etc.
I would agree that I'd be hesitant to trade Martinez even if we were fully healthy because he's a good young defenseman on a team with two important guys getting up there in age in Mitchell and Scuds. I've always been a fan of his game, but a player of MPS's caliber definitely gets me thinking, especially when we have Doughty and Voynov locked in as our top 4 puck movers for the for-seeable future.
I don't think Hemsky would be a poor fit here, but I do agree the Kings need more of a sniper/finisher than a playmaker, which is more of what Hemsky is. I don't buy that notion that he's made of glass. I have always loved his combination of speed and sick hands.
I don't think Loktionov and MPS have the same value to the Kings. Lokti was seen as a center stuck behind Kopi, Richards, Stoll, and even Lewis and Fraser. MPS could be a potential top 6 winger on this team, especially with Gagne/Penner on expiring deals.
Stoll was an important piece in the playoffs last year and I'd have a hard time parting with him too, but being able to roll out Kopitar, Carter, and Richards as centers with Fraser as the fourth while adding two top 6 wingers with speed like Hemsky and MPS would be very enticing IMO. This team is too reliant on Jeff Carter's speed and scoring.
I'm just a little worried going into the playoffs having trouble scoring again. Last year we got it done in the postseason, but this team has struggled to score for most of the season once again, and I think this team could use at least one and maybe two top 6 wingers.
I'd also be interested in a Mark Fraser type of defenseman for this team at the deadline. Big physical guy who can clear the front the front of the net, throw his body around, block shots, etc.
etherialone
dialed in your mom
D stats for Muzzin in comparison with other Kings D at comparable places in their careers.
Muzzin KINGS 13gp 1g/1a 2pts +3 6pim
Martinez KINGS 13gp 2g/1a 3pts +/=evh 10pim
Greene (Oilers) 13gp 0g/1a 1pts -4 27pim
Scuderi (Pens) 13gp 0g/0a 0pts -6 12pim
WillieM (Wild) 13gp 0g/2a 2pts -5 10pim
I have to start by saying that I don't see anything in Muzzin more than the potential to be a solid 3rd pairing guy who, once established could do step up time as a #4 on a good team. I put up these stats simply to show how most dmen find it difficult when matriculating to the NHL and are often the face of ridicule for their respective teams.
These stats represent each of the listed players first full seasons in the NHL. Muzzin is right at the same part of his learning curve in comparison to each of the players listed. Now that doesn't mean that Muzzin will even come close to having the same kind of success as these guys, only that it is still very possible that he might develop into a solid 4/6 d for the Kings.
I keep reading the same observations about Muzzin that I did about Martinez (among others) for us and even remember reading the exact same things (if not worse) about Scuderi and Greene when they came up too.
Muzzin is a rookie and he is struggling at times but his stats show that he is improving every game and that while he may be frustrating to watch his ice time keeps getting increased and that is a good thing.
It takes time for kid D to make the jump and like I said, who knows where Muzzin will end up but he is holding his own and statistically speaking he isn't our worse Dman at all.
Like everything else, at least give it 20 games before you "panic" or do anything too knee jerk.
Muzzin is doing as expected and he looks alright out there. Could be better but then he is living up to expectations especially when you consider that he is playing for WM and or MG.
Muzzin is going to be alright.
Muzzin KINGS 13gp 1g/1a 2pts +3 6pim
Martinez KINGS 13gp 2g/1a 3pts +/=evh 10pim
Greene (Oilers) 13gp 0g/1a 1pts -4 27pim
Scuderi (Pens) 13gp 0g/0a 0pts -6 12pim
WillieM (Wild) 13gp 0g/2a 2pts -5 10pim
I have to start by saying that I don't see anything in Muzzin more than the potential to be a solid 3rd pairing guy who, once established could do step up time as a #4 on a good team. I put up these stats simply to show how most dmen find it difficult when matriculating to the NHL and are often the face of ridicule for their respective teams.
These stats represent each of the listed players first full seasons in the NHL. Muzzin is right at the same part of his learning curve in comparison to each of the players listed. Now that doesn't mean that Muzzin will even come close to having the same kind of success as these guys, only that it is still very possible that he might develop into a solid 4/6 d for the Kings.
I keep reading the same observations about Muzzin that I did about Martinez (among others) for us and even remember reading the exact same things (if not worse) about Scuderi and Greene when they came up too.
Muzzin is a rookie and he is struggling at times but his stats show that he is improving every game and that while he may be frustrating to watch his ice time keeps getting increased and that is a good thing.
It takes time for kid D to make the jump and like I said, who knows where Muzzin will end up but he is holding his own and statistically speaking he isn't our worse Dman at all.
Like everything else, at least give it 20 games before you "panic" or do anything too knee jerk.
Muzzin is doing as expected and he looks alright out there. Could be better but then he is living up to expectations especially when you consider that he is playing for WM and or MG.
Muzzin is going to be alright.
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
ty tg for posting that I myself like seeing stuff like that. It reminds me of the tv show mash and the eposide of klinger replacing radar. It took klinger a while to figure out how to make the job his. Jm is playing alot better then others when they first broke in but still not up to others that hes replacing yet. Muzzin will be fine as a 6 th defenseman in time. He just needs the time to make the job his. Think experience is the best teacher imo
etherialone
dialed in your mom
Muzzin played over 20 mins tonight and was +1. His goal came as a direct result of keeping his feet moving. Its just gonna take time for him to become comfortable before we find out what level of NHL defenceman he is going to become. I still say 4/6 guy who has a little skill at being a pmd when the perfect opps arise.
As to the original question ups and downs. That's why it wasn't time to panic and when we struggle again I will still believe thqt we have a shot until the last possible second.
My faith points were heavy handed and I apologize for that.
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