So the Canucks were a product of PDO all this time? Or are they still a legitimate contender?

[strattonius]

Svilovs stepped in admirably but he's not demko. Anybody who watched demko in the playoffs against Vegas a few years back almost singlehandedly pulling the Canucks through that series will remember just how big of an impact he could put on a series.

It reminds me of when the Habs lost price in the semi finals and brought in tokarski. Again, tolarski was fine in his own right but the mindset and complexion of the team changes when you go from an elite goalie to an unknown.

It's hard to argue that a healthy demko isn't the marginal difference required at that time, but now the Canucks have another issue which is whether demko is durable enough moving forward and whether he's still the same guy.

Team also plays different in front of a rookie as opposed to a Vezina calibre goalie that's been there all year.

Vancouver protected Silovs really well at the expense of creating offensive opportunities. The series would've been completely different with Demko. And by the end of the series, Silovs was allowing point shots with low traffic in pretty easily.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

Team also plays different in front of a rookie as opposed to a Vezina calibre goalie that's been there all year.

Vancouver protected Silovs really well at the expense of creating offensive opportunities. The series would've been completely different with Demko. And by the end of the series, Silovs was allowing point shots with low traffic in pretty easily.

game 7 Canucks had 4 shots to oilers 22 half way through that game. but sure, blame the goalie

 

[strattonius]

game 7 Canucks had 4 shots to oilers 22 half way through that game. but sure, blame the goalie

I don't know if the Canucks win the series with Demko. You gotta think it would be a favorable addition to their chances though.

Silovs rose to the occasion in the playoffs last year because he was a completely green rookie that was thrown in to the playoff hotbed. All things considered he did a really good job, but Silovs is a flawed goaltender and a lot of holes in his game were exposed as the series went on. Not really all that surprising and I am not blaming him.

 

[HockeyVirus]

With hindsight, it seems the answer is yes. Last year is a clear outlier for them.

 

[BertMcDrai]

I just checked the standings...what happened to the Canucks?
I mean everybody knew they were a product of a historical PDO (Canucks fans still think it was not) but they are worse than expected.

Maybe they should be sellers at the deadline?
Still lots of hockey left, so everything can happen.

 

[Canucks LB]

Significant injuries, drama, and poor D depth.

Not a good combination for success

 

[Senor Catface]

Great topic. Seems like a lot of opinion change since December 4th.

 

[BB79]

I really want to contribute to this thread but I have no idea what PDO is.

Haha glad I'm not the only one. I detest acronyms and advanced stats so it's no wonder

 

[PULSATING]

Haha glad I'm not the only one. I detest acronyms and advanced stats so it's no wonder

Its a VERY advanced stat. You have to add save percentage and shooting percentage together to get it.

 

[Else Ermine]

The burden of expectations?
It's fair to say they've had some significant adversity this year but honestly it seems like when things look to be at their best they've performed the absolute worst.
They started the season with expectations massively raised by last year. They played adequately away but badly, sometimes horribly, in front of their own fans. Now they've finally got their core group reunited from injury and there's hope of a turnaround but instead they've put together back to back miserable performances. Genuinely woefully bad even on a Jim Benning era scale of reference.

They're lucky that the division/conference lacks depth because it they're talented enough that they could still turn things around enough to make the playoffs but there's no real reason to expect it. Nor to expect them to cause any real noise if they make it. Even if they play well their defense is still majorly limiting.
They can't rely on JT Miller to carry them emotionally like he did last season, he's just not able to be that person right now but no-one else, the coach included, seems capable of having that guiding aura either. Something needs to change and everyone looks like they're waiting on it happening elsewhere.

 

[Ciao]

I really want to contribute to this thread but I have no idea what PDO is.

I think it means they were lucky .

 

[MakoSlade]

I think it means they were lucky .

What does it actually mean? I'm trying to piece this together. Google tells me it means PHP Data Objects, but that raised the question of what does PHP mean. And Google then tells me PHP means something that has zero to do with winning, sports or Western Canada. So that likely isn't it.

The nature of this thread leads me to believe the O stands for 'outlier', since the question is was Vancouver's season real or an outlier. P and D, still researching. Public? Dystopian? Pathetic Disaster? I am still researching and will post my thesis in the 2nd quarter. Off to the library...

 

[Megustaelhockey]

What does it actually mean? I'm trying to piece this together. Google tells me it means PHP Data Objects, but that raised the question of what does PHP mean. And Google then tells me PHP means something that has zero to do with winning, sports or Western Canada. So that likely isn't it.

The nature of this thread leads me to believe the O stands for 'outlier', since the question is was Vancouver's season real or an outlier. P and D, still researching. Public? Dystopian? Pathetic Disaster? I am still researching and will post my thesis in the 2nd quarter. Off to the library...

PDO is save percentage plus shooting percentage times 10.

 

[DitchMarner]

Their downfall seems to be mirroring that of the Rangers.

Both teams had talent but probably overachieved somewhat, partially because of luck (PDO). Then expectations grew and the teams couldn't repeat their success and the locker rooms imploded (presumably).

The Canucks now seem to be hitting the sort of rock-bottom level that the Rangers hit a while back before they finally corrected course (probably too late). In fact, I was watching a recap video from a Canucks fan about their recent humiliating loss to the Kings and the fan's tone and criticisms strongly matched those of a Rangers fan that I watched a recap video from following an embarrassing loss that the Rangers suffered against the same Kings team.

 

[Brookbank]

Last year there was a lot of talk as they had a pretty incredible season finishing 6th and winning the pacific while being in contention for the presidents trophy most of the year. Notably, they had a pretty high PDO last season which was beaten to death. It even ended up with pdo themed avatars being discussed by fans owning it which was fun PDO themed Avatars

But now we are left with the question of what exactly are the Canucks. A team who could never get over the hump, end up having a huge year, and then have an up and down year so far sitting 11th in the league as time of this post.

What are the Canucks? Are they a contender in your mind?

Har har. It's called injuries.

Can you check the PDO of the year previous to last year ? The Canucks had four 30 goal scorers that year. They had three last year.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Har har. It's called injuries.

Can you check the PDO of the year previous to last year ? The Canucks had four 30 goal scorers that year. They had three last year.

Alexa, play Careless Whisper

 

[Romang67]

Har har. It's called injuries.

Can you check the PDO of the year previous to last year ? The Canucks had four 30 goal scorers that year. They had three last year.

.995.

 

[Love]

Injuries and locker room drama are the problems in Vancouver. It’s not that complicated.

 

[NVious]

A core of:
Hughes
Pettersson
Miller
Demko
Boeser

IMO should be a contender, it's as good of a five group as any in the NHL, but they have their flaws like any group I guess.

Is Boeser a legit 40 threat every year or was that a flash in the pan?
Can Demko stay healthy?
Can Pettersson produce like he's paid to and can Miller not be a twat?

No question Hughes is excellent and can carry a team, but nobody can do it all themselves. Honestly they're a team that would likely benefit most from a retool, but simultaneously if everyone is healthy and getting along, it really wouldn't surprise me if they made a run, at the top of their games that is an excellent 5some.

 

[Brookbank]

With hindsight, it seems the answer is yes. Last year is a clear outlier for them.

The claim to fame from the PDO bros like yourself was that there would be an inevitable collapse last year as the PDO leveled off. Which it did. But there was no collapse.

Now you limp wristing the PDO card again after you not only waited out all of last season but half of this season also ?

 

[MessierII]

Everyone had career years. They were going to regress this year to some extent regardless of injuries.

 

[MakoSlade]

PDO is save percentage plus shooting percentage times 10.

Wow, totally non-intuitive. But I don't know what most of these new stats mean. Thanks for the info!

 

[Brookbank]

A core of:
Hughes
Pettersson
Miller
Demko
Boeser

IMO should be a contender, it's as good of a five group as any in the NHL, but they have their flaws like any group I guess.

Is Boeser a legit 40 threat every year or was that a flash in the pan?
Can Demko stay healthy?
Can Pettersson produce like he's paid to and can Miller not be a twat?

No question Hughes is excellent and can carry a team, but nobody can do it all themselves. Honestly they're a team that would likely benefit most from a retool, but simultaneously if everyone is healthy and getting along, it really wouldn't surprise me if they made a run, at the top of their games that is an excellent 5some.

Boeser took a serious head shot this year and was out with a concussion

 

[Brookbank]

Everyone had career years. They were going to regress this year to some extent regardless of injuries.

Except that more Canucks players had career years the year before. Horvat , Kuzmenko, Miller and Petterson.

There was only 3 teams with 4 players in the top 50 in points that season. Toronto Edmonton and Vancouver. And this was the year before the alleged PDO year

 

[Regal]

The difference in play quality last year was bigger than the difference in PDO. Their shooting percentage has barely regressed. (12% to 11.3%). Their save percentage has, but Demko has been hurt/regressed. Their save percentage wasn’t unusual for a healthy Demko last year (which is why PDO is a weird stat, since an elite netminder can always influence it). Meanwhile their xGF% has tanked because they’ve just been a worse team.

Soucy-Myers fell off the map and Zadorov-Cole were replaced by AHL fodder. Then Hronek getting hurt only exacerbated the problem. Meanwhile Miller is a shell of last year, Pettersson didn’t right the ship that started sinking last February, and Boeser got a concussion and was already heavily dependent on Miller. The third line was also a big reason for their success last year, but while Garland has been good again, Joshua has been out/recovering most of the year and the line as a whole hasn’t been dominating possession to the same degree.

The team was always capable of being good when all the core players were healthy and playing up to their abilities but it rarely happened. Last year it did, and the team also added some depth, structure and cohesiveness that let them still be competitive even after Demko was hurt and Pettersson fell off. This year, more stars have been worse, the defensive depth non-existent and the team’s struggles seem to have impacted their mentality. They’ve still played some strong hockey at times but it’s very all over the map.

While injuries shouldn’t be an excuse and teams are rarely as healthy as last year, it’s also not as if they’ve fallen off the map. They’re still on the bubble and their record is hurt by OT losses which are largely luck. If even one of Miller or Pettersson was playing up to their capabilities, the team is probably firmly in a playoff spot.