So Larkin Made Some Interesting Comments.

[Rzombo4 prez]

Awesome, the rest of the NHL will get some insight into how bad Larkin is in a leadership position. This should make it much easier to move on from him as captain of the Red Wings before the start of next season.

This was my "well phuc" response to the comments. All he did was suppress his trade value with what he said. .

 

[jkutswings]

I'm not sure this is going to be very productive, so I'll reply once. What has Yzerman done?

1. Took on the worst team in the league in 2019-20 which had zero elite talent and was pretty much capped out.

Correct.

1. Built one of the best prospect pools in the league according to people who follow this stuff.

No argument there either.

1. Spent $116 million in term/AAV over the 2022 and 2023 summers to fill out the roster while his prospects develop so Dylan had a shot at playoff hockey.

Here's where you're missing some very relevant context. Yzerman spent a huge chunk of that money on lousy players. Even if I set aside this silly implication that the GM used free agency to quiet a captain behaving like a fussy toddler, there's a big difference between the claim of injecting over a hundred million into a product and the reality of how well you spent the money.

Here's the player list:
* Perron
* Chiarot
* Gostisbehere
* Holl
* Copp
* Sprong
* Kane
* Compher
* Fischer
* Husso
* Lyon
* Reimer
* Kostin

Kane worked out extremely well. I can tolerate having acquired Perron, Chiarot, Ghost, Copp, Sprong, and Lyon. The rest were borderline trash. That's an abject failure rate of nearly 50 percent.

1. Due to s***ty leadership, the team bottled a playoff spot in 2023-24 by losing 15 of 20 games. Yzerman get no credit for the team being in 6th place, 4 points behind Toronto and Carolina, but gets all the criticism when Larkin's team drops 15 of 20 games? Absurd.

As several people have said several times, both sides get credit for the things done well and blame for the things done poorly.

1. Replaces Lalonde with proven NHL coach who has over 1,000 games and has taken two teams from the outside to playoff hockey.

And took half a season to do it, when anybody watching the games knew it needed to be done far sooner.

Seriously what the f**k has Larkin done other than been a passenger at 4 Nations?

Play good hockey for the vast majority of his career as a Red Wing, while continuing to deal with a lousy supporting cast.

Which is like saying, what the F has Yzerman done here as a GM, other than draft well with first round picks? Clearly it's not that simplistic for either person.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm not sure this is going to be very productive, so I'll reply once. What has Yzerman done?

1. Took on the worst team in the league in 2019-20 which had zero elite talent and was pretty much capped out.
2. Built one of the best prospect pools in the league according to people who follow this stuff.
3. Spent $116 million in term/AAV over the 2022 and 2023 summers to fill out the roster while his prospects develop so Dylan had a shot at playoff hockey.
4. Due to s***ty leadership, the team bottled a playoff spot in 2023-24 by losing 15 of 20 games. Yzerman gets no credit for the team being in 6th place, 4 points behind Toronto and Carolina, but gets all the criticism when Larkin's team drops 15 of 20 games? Absurd.
5. Replaces Lalonde with proven NHL coach who has over 1,000 games and has taken two teams from the outside to playoff hockey.

Seriously what the f**k has Larkin done other than been a passenger at 4 Nations?

Larkin wasn’t even in the lineup for a good chunk of #4.

Pretty convenient to write this all off on one guy and on the basis of things none of us are actually privileged to see.

Signing the wrong vets, making the wrong trades those are a little easier to evaluate objectively from the outside than something wrong must be happening behind close doors in the room.

Yzerman is in charge of the whole organization as well unless you would rather put the ultimate leadership on Chris Ilitch which I also have time for.

They made some steps but not enough. Everyone in the organization should look on how to improve, not really after the scapegoat. Do better, make better decisions and work harder in the player group to make sure it doesn’t happen again. There are 30 teams that have been to the playoffs more recently than us, it is time that is a tangible goal or what are we doing.

 

[izlez]

Gotta be honest, it really is a weird coincidence that 5 players get injured in February/March for significant lengths of time, the team suddenly falls apart, Larkins leadership suddenly gets called into question, and Yzerman's has no idea how to build a team unless its through first round picks.

Maybe, just maybe, those guys are better than you all thought. We were always roughly a bubble team, and losing the veteran bums actually really hurt us?

 

[Winger98]

And yet they finished this season with fewer points than last year.

I'll agree that they looked different this year, and in some ways it was an improvement. But they lost a ton of scoring while the PK went full dumpster fire - those aspects were a clear step backward and need to be addressed this summer.

First 35 games were a tire fire under Lalonde. The PK was still bad under McLellan but the offense picked up significantly, and our defense tightened up. That PK sunk us the whole season.

because I'm bored...if we had last season's pk% of 79%, we would have given up 7 fewer ppg since January 1st, lowering our goals allowed per game from 3.09 to 2.93. Last season we gave up 3.33.

Granted, we only scored 3.07 goals per game since Jan. 1st, but I take that trade off for the far tighter D. I know folks want to fix the PK with a D signing or two, but I don't know. Our personnel wasn't crazy different between last year and this year. I'm not saying getting a guy like Gavrikov wouldn't help, but I wonder how much will change just from having a coach all season who the team doesn't loath. Regarless, looking forward to this summer and next season.

 

[deca guard]

Well they played at a 96 point pace with McLellan so this isn’t entirely accurate. What he would have done is likely make them a playoff team if he arrived in early November.

In all of their postseason interviews the players were glowing on McLellan, Copp even refused to speak on the Lalonde time which was pretty damning.

what are you refering to that isnt 'accurate' ? the ' decent but not contenders ' part ? you think getting 96 points makes this team contenders

 

[Run the Jewels]

Larkin wasn’t even in the lineup for a good chunk of #4.

Pretty convenient to write this all off on one guy and on the basis of things none of us are actually privileged to see.

Signing the wrong vets, making the wrong trades those are a little easier to evaluate objectively from the outside than something wrong must be happening behind close doors in the room.

Yzerman is in charge of the whole organization as well unless you would rather put the ultimate leadership on Chris Ilitch which I also have time for.

They made some steps but not enough. Everyone in the organization should look on how to improve, not really after the scapegoat. Do better, make better decisions and work harder in the player group to make sure it doesn’t happen again. There are 30 teams that have been to the playoffs more recently than us, it is time that is a tangible goal or what are we doing.

Larkin is whining about 4th round draft picks.

• Yzerman has built out a top 6 with 5 guys capable of 30ish goal seasons (Raymond, Cat, Kane, Kasper trending nicely as he tied for 2nd in EVS goal scoring among rookies).
• Yzerman will have one of the top 4 defenses in the league as soon as ASP joins the ranks.

If you think Larkin is showing great leadership I think you are going to be surprised how the rest of the league reacts as his comments gain traction. But keep talking about a 4 Nations tournament that no one gives a s**t about.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Gotta be honest, it really is a weird coincidence that 5 players get injured in February/March for significant lengths of time, the team suddenly falls apart, Larkins leadership suddenly gets called into question, and Yzerman's has no idea how to build a team unless its through first round picks.

Maybe, just maybe, those guys are better than you all thought. We were always roughly a bubble team, and losing the veteran bums actually really hurt us?

Did Dylan Lakin say anything along those lines? Nope, he whined about 4th round draft picks. He held himself a pity party.

 

[izlez]

Did Dylan Lakin say anything along those lines? Nope, he whined about 4th round draft picks. He held himself a pity party.

Help me out. What did Larkin say about 4th round draft picks?

 

[Run the Jewels]

I just wonder who was the miraclous player, we didn't trade for?

Cozens? And all asks from Buffalo included Kasper. We are not gonna do that kind of trade, it does not make us any better.

Last 42 games of the season - Marco Kasper, 17+13 = 30 points.
Last 42 games of the season - Dylan Cozens, 8+19=27 points.

We were never on Rantanen sweepstakes.

You missed the point: it's all about shifting attention away from Dylan and his cringe comments about 4th round draft picks while Marco f**king Kasper scores as many even strength goals as Larkin.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Help me out. What did Larkin say about 4th round draft picks?

He was given a softball about the young players coming in (no mention but pretty sure it was in reference to Kasper and Edvinsson) and he said when the 4th rounders from this upcoming draft finally make the roster his career will be over.

Totally embarrassing for a captain of an NHL team.

 

[Henkka]

He was given a softball about the young players coming in (no mention but pretty sure it was in reference to Kasper and Edvinsson) and he said when the 4th rounders from this upcoming draft finally make the roster his career will be over.

Totally embarrassing for a captain of an NHL team.

That's kind of like a bad joke. Haven't listened it yet, have make it and do my own conclusion.

Like we have Söderblom and Johansson now entering in (as lower picks) and they were drafted 6 years ago. They did help the team.

In 6 years, Larkin is 34. Then, the career is not over, but maybe his prime will be.

There still was not any single players traded for a 4th rounder, who would have make us any better. We were on Carlo and Cozens trades. Bruins favorited Minten as a prospect, and sending Kasper for Cozens would have been a mistake.

So there was no help in the market, to hope for some help which never existed. Rantanen was not coming to Detroit, we were on his excluded list.

 

[RedHawkDown]

People also keep saying Yzerman is to blame as if they’re mutually exclusive. You all know I’m no Yzerman apologist. I think he’s done a trash job overall. I don’t think he should be GM for more than another year. His trading and free agency and pro scouting has been league worst.

None of that changes the fact that Dylan’s comments and his demeanour are f***ing embarrassing for the captain of an original 6 franchise.

 

[jkutswings]

Yzerman will have one of the top 4 defenses in the league as soon as ASP joins the ranks.

Not a chance. Even if Holl never sees the ice again and ASP somehow avoids the entirely normal process of making rookie mistakes while learning on the job, his presence does not magically turn guys like Gustafsson and Chiarot into fabulous players.

He will definitely help, but he's far from a cure-all.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Help me out. What did Larkin say about 4th round draft picks?

I suggest you watch the whole 9 minutes on YouTube and not the couple of clipped comments. He was certainly devastated and demoralized, but there was more to it than the two comments being clipped. One of those is certainly a big deal in terms of being critical of the deadline and surprising in terms of generally bland exit meetings. Keep in mind we are concentrating on roughly 40 seconds of it.

 

[TheClap]

Bit of a pot calling the kettle black situation, Yzerman has been a bad GM and Larkin a bad captain.
Larkin's complaints are legitimate, however, his grievances are undermined with how shitty he played down the stretch. His awful play essentially vindicates Yzerman's decision to not make any meaningful moves at the deadline, and he arguably should have been a much bigger seller. (Trading for Mrazek instead of just giving Cossa a try is still a baffling, Ken Holland-esque type move).

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

So how did Larkin 'freak out'?

How did he 'undermine' Yzerman's authority?

Ever think that this all could stem from the management on down? I mean - who hires the coaching staff? Who signs the UFAs? Who is responsible for the roster construction?

This idea that Yzerman is pure and saintly is all fine and dandy, but he's certainly partially responsible for yet another season missing the playoffs.

1. Questioning the team direction publicly, especially in a weirdly selfish way. I'm thinking of the "4th round picks" comment.

2. This entire press conference suggests he questions Yzerman's judgment, that the team itself did after the deadline, and implies maybe you should, too.

3. You seem to want to make this an Yzerman vs Larkin thing. That's not what I'm doing here. Yzerman's managerial blunders have nothing to do with Larkin's poor leadership.

 

[Henkka]

Since the 4 Nations, our players and best players who were traded:

5-on-5 scoring

Andrei Kuzmenko, 6+9=15 points (traded for a 3rd, quite cheap price)
Marco Kasper, 8+6=14 points
Yanni Gourde, 1+13=14 points
Alex DeBrincat, 8+5=13 points
Patrick Kane, 3+9=12 points
Dylan Cozens, 2+10=12 points
Brock Nelson, 5+6=11 points
(Mikko Rantanen, 1+10=11 points)
Dylan Larkin, 6+4=10 points
Lucas Raymond, 3+6=9 points

I just don't see a difference maker in here, but the Larkin talk about "lockerroom maybe wanting a new spark" - yeah, I'll understand it, but many times changes will hurt short-term, than help. You will need to build new lines and that takes time. That could lead to losing. And Kuzmenko was pending UFA, we miss the playoffs and he bolts anywhere.

Think the management were just right, as standing pat, and these players' feelings are just wrong. Good to hear that Larkin was honest about it, and didn't lie any shiny shit. That's very finnish culture, being honest and saying it in public.

They hoped for something, but was never a market for a move.

Anyways, it was the Copp injury, Gustafsson injury (as he was playing fine under McLellan, and losing him promoted Holl on the roster) and Raymond/Larkin being gassed after 4Nations, which did hurt too much at late of the season. All happened at the same time and the losing slid did start.

 

[FMichael]

1. Questioning the team direction publicly, especially in a weirdly selfish way. I'm thinking of the "4th round picks" comment.

2. This entire press conference suggests he questions Yzerman's judgment, that the team itself did after the deadline, and implies maybe you should, too.

3. You seem to want to make this an Yzerman vs Larkin thing. That's not what I'm doing here. Yzerman's managerial blunders have nothing to do with Larkin's poor leadership.

I'm not making it to be a Larkin vs Yzerman as much as I'm pointing out how both player/s and mgt are responsible.

So in short - I didn't witness any 'freak out' nor 'undermining of authority'...Just answering questions when asked and being honest about how the season went.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

He was given a softball about the young players coming in (no mention but pretty sure it was in reference to Kasper and Edvinsson) and he said when the 4th rounders from this upcoming draft finally make the roster his career will be over.

Totally embarrassing for a captain of an NHL team.

But for real, I think this is the most damning comment. It comes across like he doesn't care what is best for the organization if it's not going to help him personally.

Like, I get it, that's the kind of thing that might be a funny comment to a friend in private, but actually saying that out loud at a press conference as a team captain is shocking.

 

[SCD]

I suggest you watch the whole 9 minutes on YouTube and not the couple of clipped comments. He was certainly devastated and demoralized, but there was more to it than the two comments being clipped. One of those is certainly a big deal in terms of being critical of the deadline and surprising in terms of generally bland exit meetings. Keep in mind we are concentrating on roughly 40 seconds of it.

Hopefully, Larkin gets a re-do. I doubt it will be bland.

 

[FMichael]

But for real, I think this is the most damning comment. It comes across like he doesn't care what is best for the organization if it's not going to help him personally.

Like, I get it, that's the kind of thing that might be a funny comment to a friend in private, but actually saying that out loud at a press conference as a team captain is shocking.

As I had asked another poster in here - ever have a job where the boss is a moron and f***s the staff over via micromanagement and generally poor decision making?

Larkin - in the end - has to look out for himself...The team he's been on has not been anywhere near as good as to what previous Captains have had (Yzerman, Lidstrom, Zetterberg).

He's been the Captain on that sinking ship and he is treading water like a motherf***er in attempting to keep it afloat...Some of his crew/teammates have been tossed overboard and he likely feels partially responsible for their demise.

Granted - he's certainly not 'elite', nor even 'great' by some critics estimation, but I find him in that 'damn good' category and every team in the league would want him on their roster.

I believe he said what we as fans all pretty much know already...As to what is going on behind the scenes and how things play out can be a mystery...

 

[Run the Jewels]

Correct.


No argument there either.


Here's where you're missing some very relevant context. Yzerman spent a huge chunk of that money on lousy players. Even if I set aside this silly implication that the GM used free agency to quiet a captain behaving like a fussy toddler, there's a big difference between the claim of injecting over a hundred million into a product and the reality of how well you spent the money.

Here's the player list:
* Perron
* Chiarot
* Gostisbehere
* Holl
* Copp
* Sprong
* Kane
* Compher
* Fischer
* Husso
* Lyon
* Reimer
* Kostin

Kane worked out extremely well. I can tolerate having acquired Perron, Chiarot, Ghost, Copp, Sprong, and Lyon. The rest were borderline trash. That's an abject failure rate of nearly 50 percent.


As several people have said several times, both sides get credit for the things done well and blame for the things done poorly.


And took half a season to do it, when anybody watching the games knew it needed to be done far sooner.


Play good hockey for the vast majority of his career as a Red Wing, while continuing to deal with a lousy supporting cast.

Which is like saying, what the F has Yzerman done here as a GM, other than draft well with first round picks? Clearly it's not that simplistic for either person.

It's gonna be great when Larkin is no longer captain and the team makes the playoffs next year. It will solidify what a s***ty captain he's been.

But hey, he'll always have 4 Nations.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

But for real, I think Yzerman's response will go like this:

He'll say he thinks people are blowing these comments out of proportion, and that you could have gotten this press conference out of him (Yzerman) many times during his career. He'll say that he views being upset like this as a good thing, because it shows how passionate Larkin is, and he'll say he's upset about the season, too. He'll say he has no concerns about Larkin as captain.

He'll then add that he tried to make moves at the deadline, but prices were very high, and that given the circumstances (injuries, etc), he thinks standing pat was the right move. He'll say he thought they had the ability to make the playoffs as-is. He'll point to Montreal making the playoffs with no additions.

Somebody will ask if the team will be better this year. He'll say he expects them to compete for a playoff spot, but doesn't expect a big trade.

End of press conference

 

[FMichael]

It's gonna be great when Larkin is no longer captain and the team makes the playoffs next year. It will solidify what a s***ty captain he's been.

But hey, he'll always have 4 Nations.

Since you're so confident about it.....Who might you think is a suitable replacement? A willing replacement?