So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[Foppa2118]

It’s not even the offence that I’ve focused on, it’s the board play and inability to clear the net that worries me.

Appreciate opinion was divided.

I’ll use Reilly, or Gardiner for that matter, they seem/ed able to rush within our system. Also I’ve seem Dermott do it, so where’s Barrie? There is no hate on from me, I’m just watching him perhaps more intently because he’s new and I’m surprised at what I’m seeing.

It’s early, he can turn it around for sure. I’ll be the first to acknowledge.

Those will never be his strengths unfortunately. He'll likely only be average at best defensively overall.

Just my opinion, but Toronto gave up a decent amount to get Barrie, they should play him to his strengths. And that's letting him rush the puck aggressively.

That's how he was able to stick in the NHL. His first couple seasons he didn't look NHL ready, and Roy sent him down to the minors again a few games into the 2013-14 season. He told him he wanted him to just get the puck and go. Don't overthink it, make the other team react to you. After that he figured out how he needed to play in the NHL to have success and he became the defenseman Dubas traded for.

Trying to turn him into a different type of defenseman at 28 is a big risk to backfire. It could lead to a loss of offense and confidence and just an overall poor first season for him in Toronto. Which could in turn lead to him signing elsewhere.

 

[Kiwi]

Not you, but some are focusing on Babs to justify his play. It’s a copout.

I might try him on the top PP, but honestly I have Muzzin first for a change, he gets the shots through.

He's been awful, I don't care who's fault it is be it Barrie, Babcock or Dubas all I care about is fixing it

Muzzin is our best all around D, he needs to be playing every 5v5 minute available and every minute on the PP is one less minute you can use him somewhere else

 

[Jozay]

I dont think Babcock is holding him back as much as some want to believe. Rielly plays pretty aggressive, theres no reason for Barrie to not do the same.

For some reason, he's gotten away from what makes him such an effective dman.

 

[Foppa2118]

I dont think Babcock is holding him back as much as some want to believe. Rielly plays pretty aggressive, theres no reason for Barrie to not do the same.

For some reason, he's gotten away from what makes him such an effective dman.

I haven't followed him closely in Toronto, but I always had a feeling Barrie would have trouble adjusting to a new system outside of Colorado. He spent his whole NHL career playing an aggressive off the rush style of play that Colorado always likes to employ, and developing chemistry with MacKinnon and others.

He was in the role that gets the most out of him in Colorado. He was thrown out a lot with the top line, and they worked really well together. He got a lot of offensive zone starts or on the fly starts where he could join the attack. He got #1 PP time. A lot of the plays the Avs utilized at even strength and on the PP were designed around him jump starting the play or distributing the puck or getting wrist shots through from the point. He's got to figure out how to have success in Toronto without some of that and playing behind Reilly now.

He might just need half a season to adjust to a new system and style of play and most importantly to develop chemistry with his new team. He relies on having that chemistry to play his best, because otherwise he hesitates just a bit too much trying to read the play, and isn't as effective.

 

[DarkKnight]

He's been awful, I don't care who's fault it is be it Barrie, Babcock or Dubas all I care about is fixing it

Muzzin is our best all around D, he needs to be playing every 5v5 minute available and every minute on the PP is one less minute you can use him somewhere else

And he’s on PK, point taken. I just think a clapper from the blue line is a nice add, we always go to the walls.

 

[DarkKnight]

I dont think Babcock is holding him back as much as some want to believe. Rielly plays pretty aggressive, theres no reason for Barrie to not do the same.

For some reason, he's gotten away from what makes him such an effective dman.

Dermott has made some nice rushes since his return as well.

 

[GoonieFace]

Funny how a team on the rise who made the playoffs last year would trade such a stud like Barrie. Seems odd

 

[IPS]

Funny how a team on the rise who made the playoffs last year would trade such a stud like Barrie. Seems odd

With the rise of Makar, trading from a position of strength to address a position of weakness seems like a very logical thing.

Miraculous what happens if you actually take the time to understand something. Try again next time.

 

[GoonieFace]

With the rise of Makar, trading from a position of strength to address a position of weakness seems like a very logical thing.

Miraculous what happens if you actually take the time to understand something. Try again next time.

but Kerfoot is also a centre, and apparently is just as good as Kadri, so that’s a wash, so they basically gave away Barrie

 

[ItsFineImFine]

I'm 90% convinced it's a coaching issue because the skilled guys all show their skill and make good individual plays. Like if Nylander or Marner or whoever looked invisible or if guys like Timashov or Moore looked like they don't belong in the NHL then yeah it'd be an issue with the players. There are times when they do like Tavares obviously hasn't been 100% but if so many guys look so good individually but the team struggles as a whole then I think that's a systems issue.

Funny how a team on the rise who made the playoffs last year would trade such a stud like Barrie. Seems odd

Expiring contract that probably wouldn't re-sign + other offensive D + needed a centre badly.

I really think Barrie has been far better than Gardiner defensively though and he's made a bunch of skilled plays offensively. The numbers haven't come but I think that's because of the transition issues this team has and they will eventually come with a coaching change.

 

[IPS]

but Kerfoot is also a centre, and apparently is just as good as Kadri, so that’s a wash, so they basically gave away Barrie

Kerfoot > Kadri??!

I mean they're free to think that, but it's dead wrong.

 

[TMLS]

someone on the team should tell babcock "ok boomer"

 

[Faltorvo]

OK I guess you could argue that, fair point. Maybe that is what he was thinking.

Oh the other hand, maybe not. We can't know what he was thinking obviously but sending out a checking line to start the game against another teams first line is something that he has often done in the past. I don't like it, I think it's a reactive strategy as opposed to "shape the game according to their strengths" as Nithoniniel said earlier.

ya well,,,, what does nith know? i frankly think it's little.

our strength is forward depth, their 3rd line will have to deal with either matty or JT , how many teams have a solid 3rd line?

 

[bobg1]

Babcock. He can't work with skilled teams.

Did you watch his Wings teams????

 

[stickty111]

Ian Tulloch on the coaching today

My bigger concern relates to how the team has been playing at even strength lately. It’s been awful to watch.
I understand that Mike Babcock is trying to encourage better defensive habits in his star players. When Matthews and Nylander play tight hockey without the puck like they did tonight, they look fantastic. It gives them more room to make things happen offensively. With that being said, there must be a way to tighten things up defensively without sacrificing offence to the degree that Toronto has recently.

Plus other points

The Leafs have found a way to rack up seven points in their last four games, but there are some concerning trends beneath the surface. Andersen’s stellar goaltending has helped mask the fact that the team has been getting out-chanced at five-on-five.

I wrote about this earlier for my weekly Leafs column. The coaching staff is clearly encouraging a more conservative playstyle, but it’s resulted in the scoring chances drying up offensively. That doesn’t count as playing defence in my books — you’re just getting outplayed in a lower-event game.
If the Leafs are going to establish themselves as a legitimate contender, they’ll need to find a way to tighten things up defensively without it stifling the qualities that make them great. The Carolina Hurricanes have found a way to play that kind of hockey while playing an up-tempo game. I’d love to see the Leafs follow that kind of blueprint.

Accurate again. Slowing the game down but getting outplayed is not defensive hockey.

 

[Bomber0104]

Ian Tulloch on the coaching today

My bigger concern relates to how the team has been playing at even strength lately. It’s been awful to watch.
I understand that Mike Babcock is trying to encourage better defensive habits in his star players. When Matthews and Nylander play tight hockey without the puck like they did tonight, they look fantastic. It gives them more room to make things happen offensively. With that being said, there must be a way to tighten things up defensively without sacrificing offence to the degree that Toronto has recently.

Plus other points

The Leafs have found a way to rack up seven points in their last four games, but there are some concerning trends beneath the surface. Andersen’s stellar goaltending has helped mask the fact that the team has been getting out-chanced at five-on-five.

I wrote about this earlier for my weekly Leafs column. The coaching staff is clearly encouraging a more conservative playstyle, but it’s resulted in the scoring chances drying up offensively. That doesn’t count as playing defence in my books — you’re just getting outplayed in a lower-event game.
If the Leafs are going to establish themselves as a legitimate contender, they’ll need to find a way to tighten things up defensively without it stifling the qualities that make them great. The Carolina Hurricanes have found a way to play that kind of hockey while playing an up-tempo game. I’d love to see the Leafs follow that kind of blueprint.

Accurate again. Slowing the game down but getting outplayed is not defensive hockey.

Garbage opinion by an absolute nobody.

But thanks for sharing.

 

[FMichael]

 

[Walshy7]

Is the cat available? I think he would be a good coach

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

It's wierd Babcock saying this, when he is the one who won't adapt.

Now I would argue that its not true. For instance..have you seen the new RUGBY style PP that we are using? we literally look like we are not allowed to pass it forward...only laterals or back passes are allowed...The guy is full of it...he always claims to reinvent himself over the summer, when in fact he is still coaching like it's 2009 ...why? well, it worked once back then...it has to work again...

 

[Gary Nylund]

ya well,,,, what does nith know? i frankly think it's little.

our strength is forward depth, their 3rd line will have to deal with either matty or JT , how many teams have a solid 3rd line?

I happen to agree with him on this so agree to disagree here I guess.

 

[Gary Nylund]

but Kerfoot is also a centre, and apparently is just as good as Kadri, so that’s a wash, so they basically gave away Barrie

I'm pretty sure both sides would agree that Kadri's better than Kerfoot (at least he is when eligible to play).

 

[MyBudJT]

OK I guess you could argue that, fair point. Maybe that is what he was thinking.

Oh the other hand, maybe not. We can't know what he was thinking obviously but sending out a checking line to start the game against another teams first line is something that he has often done in the past. I don't like it, I think it's a reactive strategy as opposed to "shape the game according to their strengths" as Nithoniniel said earlier.

What do you or @Nithoniniel mean by this??

 

[shaner8989]

Another game and another game we are not ready to play

When playing the leafs u are guaranteed a lead after the first few mins

Fire this f***ing loser now

 

[34]

Time has run out for Babcock. Enough is enough.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No Babcock doesn't need to go, the Backup goalie needs to go.

When piece of shit plays they lose.

When Freddie plays they usually win, they almost always get a point.

That's not a coaching issue that's a GM issue that means there is a clear weakness and he is REFUSING to address it.

Find the money and address it.