So... Are the Penguins Even Going to Try?

[joestevens29]

It's not even about being "objectively" better. WSH is at least attempting something, which remains to be seen with PIT, especially now after losing Guentzel and trading away Reilly (though my understanding is this is an addition by subtraction).

Warren Foegele would have been a good get for them IMO.

Foegele isn’t what people make him out to be. He’s a 1.75mil max player

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This was Karlsson about 3 quarters through the year. He finished with a worse defensive rating but everything else basically the same. Karlsson was a huge reason why the Pens were still a decent 5 on 5 team, he just didn't get any PP points because the Pens PP was historically bad. Granlund is playing as the worst team in the leagues 1C and on their top PP. Not a useful player to the Pens and needed to go.

I mean shouldn’t he make their pp better?

 

[Turin]

Foegele isn’t what people make him out to be. He’s a 1.75mil max player


I mean shouldn’t he make their pp better?

You’d think he, Crosby, Malkin, Rust, whatever could have made at least an ok powerplay but no, it was mind blowingly bad and I’m just gonna have to chalk it up to coaching because I have no idea why. It was bad without him too so that wasn’t the issue. They went a full month without a powerplay goal.

 

[joestevens29]

You’d think he, Crosby, Malkin, Rust, whatever could have made at least an ok powerplay but no, it was mind blowingly bad and I’m just gonna have to chalk it up to coaching because I have no idea why. It was bad without him too so that wasn’t the issue. They went a full month without a powerplay goal.

I mean generally at some point the players just take over and show the coaches, but that doesn’t happen when players are zoned out

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Washington’s signings may turn out to help them in the way many people seem to think they will. Or they may have turned out to have acquired a lot of guys who are overpaid on long term deals. Just because a team goes out and acquires a bunch of guys doesn’t mean they’ve had a good offseason.


The Karlsson trade also had the benefit of dumping several contracts we didn’t need.

Only to acquire a big contract you didnt need..

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I really dont think letang and malkin signed up for years of non playoff seasons. Dubas is a pawn for poor corporate ownership that just wanted to make money. Private equity will ruin the organization.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

I really dont think letang and malkin signed up for years of non playoff seasons. Dubas is a pawn for poor corporate ownership that just wanted to make money. Private equity will ruin the organization.

We shoukd have moved on from Letang yeeeears ago.

2016 Cup winning goal aside, I’ve never understood why he is and was always been held in such high regard? Sure he was a good skater but mentally he’s always been a complete and utter bonehead. Plus how many games did he lose us last year alone with his stupidity?? Way too many.

“Big 3” my ass. This is/was Sid and Geno’s team.

 

[lettuceAA]

Slightly above average goal tending and better seasons from Karlson, Rakell, Rust and as long as Sid, Malkin and Letang stay somewhat healthy the pens will make the playoffs. They were inconsistent last season but at periods and good play. Sullivan's leash has to be extremely short by now.

 

[Turin]

I really dont think letang and malkin signed up for years of non playoff seasons. Dubas is a pawn for poor corporate ownership that just wanted to make money. Private equity will ruin the organization.

What exactly has changed with the ownership in terms of hockey ops philosophy? It's not like theyre pinching pennies. They have spent to the cap. They gave the GM a giant contract. They gave the coach a giant contract.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Only to acquire a big contract you didnt need..

For a player that is an exciting, offensively gifted future hall of famer who will bring in way more revenue dollars and brings much better value than all 3 of those other contracts combined. What’s your point?

 

[Turin]

Only to acquire a big contract you didnt need..

What do you mean they didn't need? They were 1 point away from the playoffs. Karlsson objectively made their roster better and helped them clear salary at the same time.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Karlsson was a huge reason why the Pens were still a decent 5 on 5 team, he just didn't get any PP points because the Pens PP was historically bad.

Interesting, I remember hearing from Pens fans that part of the issue with the power play was that Karlsson is a poor PP player, an opinion echoed by some Sharks and/or Sens fans on here.

 

[Turin]

Interesting, I remember hearing from Pens fans that part of the issue with the power play was that Karlsson is a poor PP player, an opinion echoed by some Sharks and/or Sens fans on here.

It wasn’t any better with Letang on it.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

I mean, Dubas really handcuffed himself when the first thing he could really think of to improve the team was to just acquire karlsson. Dude has no creativity. As soon as that trade happened I figured this would be the end result.

What else was he supposed to do lol? Adding Karlsson was quite literally the only positive high upside move the team could make to even attempt to become instant contenders. If he could come in and be elite then the team should have been a 100+ point team. Reilly Smith was also a great add but he ended up doing terribly for them for whatever reason.

The team was screwed before he got there. He was tasked with trying to squeeze out another cup. He brought in the best player that he could possibly get, while dumping cap. Team didn't win. Now he's dumping pieces to accumulate pieces for the rebuild without fully rebuilding (because as long as Sid is there they won't tear it down to the bone).

 

[Nfumass]

This is Dubas trying he’s just a trash gm

 

[SoundAndFury]

Sort of funny seeing Dubas mentioned a gazillion times when it's obvious owners don't allow rebuild or as much as to fire the coach. Guess they picked the right guy to be GM since this one is everyone's whipping boy as is.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Well trading for Karlsson was the only way to do that because it enabled them to replace Letang who's declining with a guy who's still elite offensively, and also dump Granlund and Petry who combined for over 11 mill for multiple seasons. Karlsson is easily Dubas' best move and was a no brainer.


Hoping Quinn knows how to use him (you'd think he would) because Karlsson was the Pens best player for the first few months of the year and then you could see a decline as he became more acclimated to.. "Penguins hockey" until the last month of the year where he started taking over games again.

Karlsson os just a band aid though as they needed a lot than just him to really be a threat. It would have made much more sense to get him if they were already a few years into a retool, but they aren't.

 

[Turin]

Karlsson os just a band aid though as they needed a lot than just him to really be a threat. It would have made much more sense to get him if they were already a few years into a retool, but they aren't.

Not really, last year they would have comfortably made the playoffs with even an average power play. You could argue they were one top six sniper away even. In January before they collapsed they were top 10 in 5on5 xg, goaltending and pk. They were 30th on the powerplay and 32nd in finishing.

When the Karlsson trade was made the Pens were still only a year removed from handedly outplaying the Rangers in round 1 but losing due to having to play an AHL goalie/Crosby getting elbowed in the head.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Karlsson os just a band aid though as they needed a lot than just him to really be a threat. It would have made much more sense to get him if they were already a few years into a retool, but they aren't.

Look at the players they traded for him. They traded a pile of garbage on terrible contracts and a 1st round pick for an elite hall of fame defenseman who adds value on the ice and the $$ bottom line. The deal truly made a lot of sense for them to make.

 

[ameselare]

Title of this thread - "So... Are the Penguins Even Going to Try?"

Yes. They are going to try to draft Gavin McKenna in 2026 and they probably will. Or maybe Landon DuPont in 2027, or even both. I'm kind of joking but also not, their draft lottery luck is generational.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

I still believe Dubas was hired to deal with the fall of the Penguins when Crosby and Malkin are no longer there.

Correct, he was hired to make one last hail mary attempt to compete and then to rebuild the team.

He was hired to fail and doesn't know it.

He was hired for seven seasons; he absolutely knew he was hired to do the rebuild.

Title of this thread - "So... Are the Penguins Even Going to Try?"

Yes. They are going to try to draft Gavin McKenna in 2026 and they probably will. Or maybe Landon DuPont in 2027, or even both. I'm kind of joking but also not, their draft lottery luck is generational.

The Penguins have never moved up in the draft lottery. The Penguins have always either gotten the pick they'd have gotten without the lottery or fallen in the lottery.

 

[karltonian]

You’d think he, Crosby, Malkin, Rust, whatever could have made at least an ok powerplay but no, it was mind blowingly bad and I’m just gonna have to chalk it up to coaching because I have no idea why. It was bad without him too so that wasn’t the issue. They went a full month without a powerplay goal.

Classic too many cooks situation. Karlsson is an elite playmaker from the point, other elite playmakers can mess things up. Karlsson will break a defense and get the puck to an open player with time. If that player decides hey I should make a play since I have so much time, that wastes the original play.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

What you don't understand is they are trying, Dubas just isn't good at his job

 

[CanadienShark]

Karlsson was a way for them to also dump 2 terrible contracts in Granlund and Petry. So you spend a first and dump 2 contracts for a star and see what happens. What happened wasn't a massive jump, so you recalibrate. The Pens still might very well be better than last season, and this time they have a much better prospect pool and all their picks still.


Chychrun is the only deal Washington did that I really liked, Pens couldn't do it unless they traded Ottawa Letang. Mangiapani is too rich for the Pens cap structure to spend a 2nd on. PLD, hard pass. Thompson is too unknown for the Pens to spend two 3rds on. Washington can roll that dice because they have another goalie they trust.

Granlund has luckily turned his career around in San Jose. He's been a huge addition to the Sharks. We thank you for helping us land Dickinson as well.

 

[PaulD]

They didnt stand pat, Hayes and Lizzote is some pretty good reinforcement to the bottom 6, compared to Nieto, Carter, Harkins.... huge upgrade actually.

Like Karllson, Smith, Graves, Eler and Accari all had their worst seasons under Sullivans raw raw, no structure, shit powerplay coaching .....Hayes and Lizotte likely about have the worst seasons too.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Personally, if I'm a Pens fan, I've already seen my team win the cup multiple times. I'd be content now keeping the team relatively competitive until Crosby retires as a Pen