So... Are the Penguins Even Going to Try?

[HockeyVirus]

Gotta think Crosby will want to move in if the team makes no improvements and flat-lines, no?

Dubas would probably prefer that, he has no directly loyalty to Crosby and it would make his job way easier to just commit to a rebuild.

GM's love it because there are no expectations and it takes time to see what the players you pick become. Free job any idiot could do for 3-5 years

 

[WannabeFinn]

I, for one, would love to see the Penguins crash and burn. But seeing them do so with Crosby and Malkin on the roster is just plain sad. Do better, Pittsburgh. At least pretend like you’re trying to end their careers on high notes.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Gotta think Crosby will want to move in if the team makes no improvements and flat-lines, no?

Dubas would probably prefer that, he has no directly loyalty to Crosby and it would make his job way easier to just commit to a rebuild.

Crosby’s legacy as a Penguin means a lot more than whatever any GM’s opinion is. For two decades, I’ve seen this forum trying to trade Crosby and Malkin. And now they’re trying to trade McDavid and Draisatl. Give it a rest.

Nah, if these moves hit, they'll be improved. Kuznetsov and Backstrom were pretty terrible these past few seasons - scoring at a .5 PPG despite playing 1C minutes and PP time. The blue line after Carlson (and a few other players maybe for small stints) has been le bad too.

If these moves don't work out, then so what - they have assets to get those 3rd rounders right back if need be. So again, they haven't sacrificed much of anything.

If a couple of these moves don’t hit, they’re going to have a hard time getting assets back for them. This is the same issue the Pens had with Granlund, Ruutta, Petry and others. They were fortunate enough to have Dubas come in and make the big splash for EK.

 

[Szechwan]

Crosby’s legacy as a Penguin means a lot more than whatever any GM’s opinion is. For two decades, I’ve seen this forum trying to trade Crosby and Malkin. And now they’re trying to trade McDavid and Draisatl. Give it a rest.


If a couple of these moves don’t hit, they’re going to have a hard time getting assets back for them. This is the same issue the Pens had with Granlund, Ruutta, Petry and others. They were fortunate enough to have Dubas come in and make the big splash for EK.

If the Pens continue to trend down and they're clearly outside the playoff picture by the deadline, you don't think Crosby might reevaluate what he's doing?

How many more years do you think Crosby will play on a team outside the playoffs vs if he were on a contender?

 

[Duffy13]

I don't know why you guys don't just enjoy the Pens being in this spot... We've enjoyed raiding your villages and winning more Cups than everyone except for Edmonton since 1983, Time for us to relax and enjoy the sunset as a new wave of marauding Penguins arrive in a few years.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

If the Pens continue to trend down and they're clearly outside the playoff picture by the deadline, you don't think Crosby might reevaluate what he's doing?

How many more years do you think Crosby will play on a team outside the playoffs vs if he were on a contender?

Do you think this is how every player in the league operates? Do you think every player is a gun for hire? Do generational talents like Crosby who have played their whole career with own franchise decide to just leave at 37 years old? Are you ignoring the many communications that have come from Crosby stating that he wants to retire here and wants to keep Malkin and Letang in Pittsburgh?

Crosby has won 3 Cups in two decades, grown a group of friends and family in the area, and his whole legacy is here. He was groomed into the league by Mario Lemieux, who spent his whole playing career in Pittsburgh, then gained a significant ownership share in the team, and helped keep the team in Pittsburgh and become a sustainable, viable franchise for the long term.

This is always the same story with this level of player. And people always want to see these guys move. But they won’t, because they are franchise icons who are catered to by their employers and communities. Crosby and Malkin aren’t going anywhere. McDavid and Draisatl aren’t going anywhere. Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman never left.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Especially in comparison to what WSH has done, it's pretty sad to see the Penguins just stand pat. WSH are expected to only have six players remaining from their 2022(!) roster dress for them this upcoming season.

So, now what? Hard to imagine Crosby is too pleased with Dubas sitting on his hands.

They took a huge risk last summer trading for EK65 and it didn't go in their favor, and compounded the problem further with other questionable moves (Ryan Graves, Tristan Jarry). Naturally, they stand pat this offseason as they have very little cap space to maneuver with and a ton of NTC/NMC.

The Caps are in a different situation entirely. Backstrom and Oshie going on LTIR frees up $14M of cap space all of a sudden, and they were able to restructure further by getting rid of Kuemper's contract.

I think the main difference overall is how Brian MacLellan carefully chose the players who got NMC/NTCs, while Hextall and Dubas handed them out to half the team. BMac is definitely up there in the league when it comes to cap gymnastics, even went as far as to buy the best public platform for salary cap management.

It's not even like the Pens are planning so well for the future, their prospect pool isn't as deep as Washington's.

 

[Chips]

Dubas is completely over his head there it seems. They are making win now moves like trading their first for Karlsson but then is selling pieces for futures and saying in his presser they are trying to do a on the fly rebuild?

Why make some of the moves he has then? All he is doing is keeping them bad for longer.

He’s not over his head. This was a team that should have started a rebuild after the former GM, or at least was on the doorstep of a rebuild. Dude wasn’t going to completely fix their depth in one summer. They opted to stay loyal to the core/probably the owners wanting to make money on ticket revenue. Saying “we’re done” out loud would kinda hurt that.


It’s like the Canadian teams spending decades making moves to stay in the middle and sell other fans “this year could be different, look at these new toys”. A lot of that tends to be owner driven.

Then Malkin declined hard from ppg to 60’s immediately.


IMO the Karlsson trade was solid, but wasted on a coach who’s not ideal for Karlsson


Long term, Dubas was absolutely brought to be a long term rebuild organizer after Crosby decides he’s done. The previous old boys GM sped up the decline with multiple awful moves, and the team is eternally loyal to their coach for some reason which hampers


Dubas did a lot of good modernizing the leafs front office in terms of giving newer people positions and breaking down a few roles in to different positions that report to him. He identified some people lower in the organization that Lou and Babcock didn’t agree on, who ended up becoming impactful


Dubas usual haters choosing to judge him against what the Pens were 5+ years ago, rather than what they realistically were going to be regardless lol. Trading immediate year draft picks and prospects is meaningless, the rebuild will be long and those players/picks won’t be around the next core. He had a job to push forward and he acquired a 100 pt defenseman lol

 

[Szechwan]

Do you think this is how every player in the league operates? Do you think every player is a gun for hire? Do generational talents like Crosby who have played their whole career with own franchise decide to just leave at 37 years old? Are you ignoring the many communications that have come from Crosby stating that he wants to retire here and wants to keep Malkin and Letang in Pittsburgh?

Crosby has won 3 Cups in two decades, grown a group of friends and family in the area, and his whole legacy is here. He was groomed into the league by Mario Lemieux, who spent his whole playing career in Pittsburgh, then gained a significant ownership share in the team, and helped keep the team in Pittsburgh and become a sustainable, viable franchise for the long term.

This is always the same story with this level of player. And people always want to see these guys move. But they won’t, because they are franchise icons who are catered to by their employers and communities. Crosby and Malkin aren’t going anywhere. McDavid and Draisatl aren’t going anywhere. Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman never left.

Just question man, it's not personal.

Stamkos left, Sundin left, it's not impossible. Crosby is as competitive as it gets, I don't see him toiling away on a bottom feeder, hed probably sooner retire (or move?!?)

 

[Turin]

Just question man, it's not personal.

Stamkos left, Sundin left, it's not impossible. Crosby is as competitive as it gets, I don't see him toiling away on a bottom feeder, hed probably sooner retire (or move?!?)

Crosby is in two to three tiers above Stamkos and Sundin historically. His mentor was Lemieux and his favourite player was Yzerman.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Just question man, it's not personal.

Stamkos left, Sundin left, it's not impossible. Crosby is as competitive as it gets, I don't see him toiling away on a bottom feeder, hed probably sooner retire (or move?!?)

Stamkos and Sundin aren’t on the same stratosphere. And again, at Crosby’s level, legacy is more important than playing your 38 year old season for any other team.

I understand this isn’t personal. But we’ve been having this conversation for DECADES. Use your head.

 

[karltonian]

View attachment 892364
This was Karlsson about 3 quarters through the year. He finished with a worse defensive rating but everything else basically the same. Karlsson was a huge reason why the Pens were still a decent 5 on 5 team, he just didn't get any PP points because the Pens PP was historically bad. Granlund is playing as the worst team in the leagues 1C and on their top PP. Not a useful player to the Pens and needed to go.

This, Karlsson was lights out for the Pens last season, he is one of, if not the, best ES offense generating D in the league and played like it again last season. Terrible luck and likely coaching on the PP.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Stamkos left,

Stamkos was all but forced out. He didn't leave because he wanted to.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Gotta think Crosby will want to move in if the team makes no improvements and flat-lines, no?

Dubas would probably prefer that, he has no directly loyalty to Crosby and it would make his job way easier to just commit to a rebuild.

I don't think any GM wants to be known as the guy who forced Crosby out.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Trading for Karlsson made no sense. They should have began a retool a couple seasons ago to give Crosby, Malkin, and Letang one last shot

 

[66-30-33]

Pens still have cap space to trade for someone later in the offseason if he wishes, that was his plan with not spending all the cap right off the bat.

 

[Turin]

Trading for Karlsson made no sense. They should have began a retool a couple seasons ago to give Crosby, Malkin, and Letang one last shot

Well trading for Karlsson was the only way to do that because it enabled them to replace Letang who's declining with a guy who's still elite offensively, and also dump Granlund and Petry who combined for over 11 mill for multiple seasons. Karlsson is easily Dubas' best move and was a no brainer.

This, Karlsson was lights out for the Pens last season, he is one of, if not the, best ES offense generating D in the league and played like it again last season. Terrible luck and likely coaching on the PP.

Hoping Quinn knows how to use him (you'd think he would) because Karlsson was the Pens best player for the first few months of the year and then you could see a decline as he became more acclimated to.. "Penguins hockey" until the last month of the year where he started taking over games again.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins are a rebuilding team and this is what rebuilding teams do.

Dubas tried to give them a chance last off-season with acquiring Karlsson, and it didn't work out. Now he's deciding the path forward is to rebuild, rather than the delusional type of contending they've done for the last 3-4 years.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I still believe Dubas was hired to deal with the fall of the Penguins when Crosby and Malkin are no longer there.

He was hired to fail and doesn't know it.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I can't believe Pens signed Dubas to a 7 year deal for 40 million... Just insane

 

[Team_Spirit]

That ship sailed when Malkin & Letang asked for top money while Sid is being paid like 3M

 

[Turin]

That ship sailed when Malkin & Letang asked for top money while Sid is being paid like 3M

Malkin and Letang both make 6 mil, their cap AAV is 2.7 less than Sid.

 

[SomeDude]

Pens add Karlsson, HF: “LOL what are they doing do they really think they’re gonna win? they should rebuild.”

Pens do little but signal the start of the rebuild, HF: “OMG are they even gonna try?”

Worry about your own crappy teams.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Do you think this is how every player in the league operates? Do you think every player is a gun for hire? Do generational talents like Crosby who have played their whole career with own franchise decide to just leave at 37 years old? Are you ignoring the many communications that have come from Crosby stating that he wants to retire here and wants to keep Malkin and Letang in Pittsburgh?

Crosby has won 3 Cups in two decades, grown a group of friends and family in the area, and his whole legacy is here. He was groomed into the league by Mario Lemieux, who spent his whole playing career in Pittsburgh, then gained a significant ownership share in the team, and helped keep the team in Pittsburgh and become a sustainable, viable franchise for the long term.

This is always the same story with this level of player. And people always want to see these guys move. But they won’t, because they are franchise icons who are catered to by their employers and communities. Crosby and Malkin aren’t going anywhere. McDavid and Draisatl aren’t going anywhere. Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman never left.

Hm I wonder why Draisaitl didn’t say that at the end of year then? Seemed like he was pretty content to leave things open ended in that year ending interview

 

[DearDiary]

I still believe Dubas was hired to deal with the fall of the Penguins when Crosby and Malkin are no longer there.

He was hired to fail and doesn't know it.

Dubas was hired to the role of team President and to hire a new GM. Dubas claimed he couldn't find a GM, so he named himself interim GM. Then decided to permanently take the GM role.

So he wasn't hired to fail, he did it to himself.