Post-Game Talk: SN praise the Wild, Jets fill the net 6-0

[one other person]

OK, that seems like a very plausible explanation for what happened. I don't get to see the prelude, just the live performance. I wasn't trying to spin anything for a narrative, I was genuinely perplexed at how that interview unfolded.

I think that Wheeler is intelligent, intense, thoughtful, impatient and quirky. Makes for an interesting interview.

 

[Adam da bomb]

So for reference who is an adequate #1? Not a star.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

They may put Pionk with Josh and Buff with whoever to help limit his minutes. We know Josh and Pionk can handle some heavy minutes.

Sure but then you're saddling Buff with the burden of carrying someone. With the time off he's had that may not be the best move.
I truly feel like Buff will provide a boost to Morrissey and visa versa.
Maurice likely plays the top 2 pairs evenly at 5 on 5.

Buff at 20 - 23 minutes will be fine.
Just need to avoid the 25+ scenarios.

Anyways all a moot point until #33 actually steps on the ice for us.

 

[Duke749]

Sure but then you're saddling Buff with the burden of carrying someone. With the time off he's had that may not be the best move.
I truly feel like Buff will provide a boost to Morrissey and visa versa.
Maurice likely plays the top 2 pairs evenly at 5 on 5.

Buff at 20 - 23 minutes will be fine.
Just need to avoid the 25+ scenarios.

Anyways all a moot point until #33 actually steps on the ice for us.

Buff at the higher end of those minutes could be pushing it. At least early on. Either way Morrissey will get a nice boost and someone is gonna be saddled either way.

 

[surixon]

Buff at the higher end of those minutes could be pushing it. At least early on. Either way Morrissey will get a nice boost and someone is gonna be saddled either way.

While Morrissey needs a more sturdy partner then Poolman I would like to see him learn to be the dominant player on his pairing at both ends of the ice. I think if he is to grow into an elite all around dmen that can drive play at both ends of the ice he is going to have to continue going through the growing pains that he is this year (Much like how Helle did in his first year as the starting goalie). Playing him with Buff (who will want to drive all the offense) is just putting him back into his comfort zone. We already know that he can be an elite defensive anchor on a pairing with an offensive minded dmen. I think we need to stretch him out this year and take the lumps, imo we will be better served for it in the long run (Just like the team did with Helle).

 

[LowLefty]

While Morrissey needs a more sturdy partner then Poolman I would like to see him learn to be the dominant player on his pairing at both ends of the ice. I think if he is to grow into an elite all around dmen that can drive play at both ends of the ice he is going to have to continue going through the growing pains that he is this year (Much like how Helle did in his first year as the starting goalie). Playing him with Buff (who will want to drive all the offense) is just putting him back into his comfort zone. We already know that he can be an elite defensive anchor on a pairing with an offensive minded dmen. I think we need to stretch him out this year and take the lumps, imo we will be better served for it in the long run (Just like the team did with Helle).

I don't see Josh as a dominate offensive D man at any point in his career - but I do see him being very good (as in #1) in is own end in a shut down role if paired with another top 4 d man.

 

[surixon]

I don't see Josh as a dominate offensive D man at any point in his career - but I do see him being very good (as in #1) in is own end in a shut down role if paired with another top 4 d man.

I guess it depends on what you mean by dominant, he paced 43 points last year and is on track to hit 54 this year (19th in dmen scoring). Those are extremely good numbers for a dmen that isn't a full time fixture on the number 1 PP.

I do agree that I never expect him to be elite offensively but I think he can be more impactful at driving it the offensive zone while also being elite defensively. I see him like Doughty type all around number 1 who is very apt at defending and contributing offense instead of as a Vlasic type defensive dmen. His first three years he was primarily leaned on the defend while his partner was leaned on for the offense in the pairing. I think he is trying to figure out how to add that offense to his game while also taking on a bigger leadership role in the room while mentoring a rookie partner whos in a bit over his head. When looking at how much his role and responsibilities increased this season it isn't really that surprising that he has struggled at times.

 

[Atoyot]

I don't see Josh as a dominate offensive D man at any point in his career - but I do see him being very good (as in #1) in is own end in a shut down role if paired with another top 4 d man.

What do you consider a dominant offensive D man? Morrissey is on pace for 54 points, which would be two shy of Byfuglien's career high while getting much less power play opportunity. Remains to be seen if he maintains it, but it's not much more than what he was pacing for last year.

 

[Gm0ney]

I have a different take on it. I think that Wheeler didn't know that the interview had started. I base this on having been present for a number of these sorts of interviews and witnessed what often happens.

The interviewer secures the player's agreement to be interviewed. They get into position and the camera frames the shot. The interviewer talks to his director and/or gets advice from the control booth. There's often a few sentences back and forth in quick shorthand. During all of this, the player usually stares off into space, or wipes his face, or tries to get his hair to lie flat. For the more experienced players, they just wait in boredom and ignore the crew chit-chat. When the interviewer turns to the player and says something like "We're here with Blake..." or "Blake Wheeler has just...", that's when the player pays attention and waits for the usual clichés before spouting the usual cliched answers.

On Saturday, the interviewer starts talking facing the camera, segues into a question and then finishes up by turning to a much taller Wheeler and raising the mike for him to answer. It's only at that point that Wheeler, who wasn't listening to anything in the noisy arena, realizes that he was asked a question and didn't hear a word of it. I don't think he was spaced out or being difficult, I think he just didn't realize that the interview had started.

Went back this afternoon and watched the interview again and I'm still convinced that's what happened. Of course, being HFBoards, everyone's entitled to their own opinion and may want to spin it differently for their own purposes.

I think Wheeler knew the interview had started - he's a bit of a chain-puller in interviews and at the end when he says "you can't talk about it until you break it" suggested that he knew full well what the question was about but he was deliberately avoiding it like a conference champion avoids touching the Wales Trophy/Campbell Bowl.

 

[LowLefty]

What do you consider a dominant offensive D man? Morrissey is on pace for 54 points, which would be two shy of Byfuglien's career high while getting much less power play opportunity. Remains to be seen if he maintains it, but it's not much more than what he was pacing for last year.

If he can be dominate (or elite) at both ends, he'd be very special - I'm not inclined to make that call at this point although he will get his points based on his 1st pairing ice time and also being a very good player.
Personally, I see him as a more dominate shut down D over an offensive one - he will always (IMO) be better in his own end.
I also agree with an earlier poster that stated he is stretched a bit at this point and probably trying to do too much - and it's hurting the best part of this game (D).

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I think Wheeler knew the interview had started - he's a bit of a chain-puller in interviews and at the end when he says "you can't talk about it until you break it" suggested that he knew full well what the question was about but he was deliberately avoiding it like a conference champion avoids touching the Wales Trophy/Campbell Bowl.

Ah, I missed that. OK, now I'm going to agree with you instead. I've got my posting shoes on.

 

[LowLefty]

I guess it depends on what you mean by dominant, he paced 43 points last year and is on track to hit 54 this year (19th in dmen scoring). Those are extremely good numbers for a dmen that isn't a full time fixture on the number 1 PP.

I do agree that I never expect him to be elite offensively but I think he can be more impactful at driving it the offensive zone while also being elite defensively. I see him like Doughty type all around number 1 who is very apt at defending and contributing offense instead of as a Vlasic type defensive dmen. His first three years he was primarily leaned on the defend while his partner was leaned on for the offense in the pairing. I think he is trying to figure out how to add that offense to his game while also taking on a bigger leadership role in the room while mentoring a rookie partner whos in a bit over his head. When looking at how much his role and responsibilities increased this season it isn't really that surprising that he has struggled at times.

Actually, you referred to his potential as "elite" and I softened it up a bit.
I completely understand why he is struggling - he's trying to do too much.
As per my first reply, I see him as a potentially elite shut down D man but I don't see his O game getting there - just my opinion and I'd actually prefer to see his D game than his O game.
We have others on the point and coming up through the ranks, that can take care of the offensive stuff in the D role. We do not have many guys that defend well.

 

[surixon]

If he can be dominate (or elite) at both ends, he'd be very special - I'm not inclined to make that call at this point although he will get his points based on his 1st pairing ice time and also being a very good player.
Personally, I see him as a more dominate shut down D over an offensive one - he will always (IMO) be better in his own end.
I also agree with an earlier poster that stated he is stretched a bit at this point and probably trying to do too much - and it's hurting the best part of this game (D).

I do agree that the pendulum will likely always lean to his d game being better but if he can add a layer of offense it will be great. I keep remembering games from past years where we were trailing in the third period and the leash came off and he started to really assert himself in the ozone and he was dominant there while being impactful defensively. Granted that was with a much better partner who he totally trusted to back him up.

I don't think he fully trusts Poolman which is also leading to him trying to do too much in his own end.

 

[surixon]

Actually, you referred to his potential as "elite" and I softened it up a bit.
I completely understand why he is struggling - he's trying to do too much.
As per my first reply, I see him as a potentially elite shut down D man but I don't see his O game getting there - just my opinion and I'd actually prefer to see his D game than his O game.
We have others on the point and coming up through the ranks, that can take care of the offensive stuff in the D role. We do not have many guys that defend well.

Sorry I meant an elite all around dment. I don't have an issue with his dgame being the main focus but I see it as no different then the conversations around Scheifele. Scheifele has been elite offensively but has left a lot to be desired in his dgame to get there lately. I think the team is better with their number one C not only contributing offense but also being very good in his own end. All the best C's in the league now do both at an extremely high margin (Crosby, Barkov, Bergeron, Couturier etc...). Only really McDavid struggles in his own end but he is on another planet offensively that it doesn't matter. Similar conversations were had about Laine and his d game. While it is still a work in process it is much better now.

I see it the same way with Morrissey, I want him to be able to contribute at a very high level both offensively and defensively. It will make him much more valuable to the team. I think these first half defensive struggles are just short term hiccups while he learns to trust his partner while learning how to expand his game. You always want to stretch your players a bit in order to further develop them. I also think that a good many of his struggles are him trying to overcompensate defensively for his partner. Yesterday he did a much better job of just taking care of what he could take care of while also being poised offensively. I see him getting the point where he is a very good two-way dmen who will consistently put up 45 to 50 points a year.

Also I am not as bullish on the offensive potential of our dmen in the system as you:

• Pionk is good and looks to be a good 40 point dmen
• Samberg is predominantly a defensive minded dmen that isn't expected to score much at the NHL level
• Stanley looks to top out as a third pairing dmen that doesn't provide much offense
• Niku Has a lot of skill but I think his game is too risky for Maurice to trust him and will likely be moved
• Heinola is a great prospect but he looks to be a Morrissey type where the org will likely try to mold him similarly (D first puck moving)

None of the above look like they will be a dominant offensive dmen at the NHL level.

 

[LowLefty]

I don't have an issue with his dgame being the main focus but I see it as no different then the conversations around Scheifele. Scheifele has been elite offensively but has left a lot to be desired in his dgame to get there lately. I think the team is better with their number one C not only contributing offense but also being very good in his own end. All the best C's in the league now do both at an extremely high margin (Crosby, Barkov, Bergeron, Couturier etc...). Only really McDavid struggles in his own end but he is on another planet offensively that it doesn't matter.

I see it the same way with Morrissey, I want him to be able to contribute at a very high level both offensively and defensively. It will make him much more valuable to the team. I think these first half defensive struggles are just short term hiccups while he learns to trust his partner while learning how to expand his game. You always want to stretch your players a bit in order to further develop them. I also think that a good many of his struggles are him trying to overcompensate defensively for his partner. Yesterday he did a much better job of just taking care of what he could take care of while also being poised offensively. I see him getting the point where he is a very good two-way dmen who will consistently put up 45 to 50 points a year.

I have no issue with him being better offensively - but I do not see him at an elite level in that capacity at any point - and he doesn't have to be - we need an elite D man.

I agree that we always want players to be the best they can be - but I'm more in the camp that wants him to be an elite shut down d man and I don't know if he can do that if he's also working to be the best at the other end of he ice. At some point in his career, maybe - but this is not necessarily the right time for him to be pushing his O game when we need his D game.

As for comping him with some the best centers on the planet, I'm not sure he is at the level - I may eat my works with that statement someday (and hopefully so), but right now, I see him as I've always seen him - a top notch Dman in a shut down role.

We're on the same page - just looking at it from a slightly different angle - I think we both agree Josh is a very important pce of the Jets, now and go forward.

 

[surixon]

I have no issue with him being better offensively - but I do not see him at an elite level in that capacity at any point - and he doesn't have to be - we need an elite D man.

I agree that we always want players to be the best they can be - but I'm more in the camp that wants him to be an elite shut down d man and I don't know if he can do that if he's also working to be the best at the other end of he ice. At some point in his career, maybe - but this is not necessarily the right time for him to be pushing his O game when we need his D game.

As for comping him with some the best centers on the planet, I'm not sure he is at the level - I may eat my works with that statement someday (and hopefully so), but right now, I see him as I've always seen him - a top notch Dman in a shut down role.

We're on the same page - just looking at it from a slightly different angle - I think we both agree Josh is a very important pce of the Jets, now and go forward.

Well I don't see Morrissey ever winning a Norris of being a top 3-5 player at his position. He is our number 1 dmen and I would like to see his game better balanced, just as I would like to see our top C in Scheifele's better balanced. I think it is more a mental/pressure issue then him trying to push his o game. He is now being counted on to lead the defense and I think it is making him think more on the ice which is leading to some of his timing issues. I think once he gets used to that pressure you will start to see him back playing more instinctively defensively again. We have already started to see his defensive game start to tighten up again over the past while. I expect to see continued improvement throughout the rest of the year.

I also wonder how healthy he is, he isn't playing as physical and he hasn't tried to be agile at spinning off of checks and creating plays on retrievals since early this year. I think he's nicked up a bit.

Yes I think we are pretty close to on the same page. Good conversation.

 

[Jet]

Possibly Postma, Burmi, Petan. In a different way, maybe Armia. Maybe Dano. Niku could, just possibly, be in the process of slipping through.

You can only point at the ones who have turned out well and say that they turned out well. You can't even prove that they reached their fullest possible potential. They turned out well either because of the way they were handled or in spite of it. Once in a long while you might be able to identify some specific action that either made a player or broke him. But I think those are exceptions. If you could survey all of the players, years later, you might get a good idea of those who were helped. Those who blamed their failure on a team or a coach would be less reliable.

I don't want to re-open any of these debates. So far they haven't achieved a lot anywhere else. That may or may not be because of the way they were handled. There is no proving it either way.

Over all, I think Maurice has done a good job. JMO. But he may not have been good for all of the prospects. I credit him with giving KC a kick in the hind end at the right time and getting him going. That is one of the ones I think I can identify as well done. But many here disagree with me about what actually happened there.

I have 2 issues with this:
1> these players were not successful elsewhere in the nhl
2> Maurice doesn't make these decisions in a bubble. Assistant coaches, Chevy and even scouts have input in these decisions.

I don't believe players are ruined by organizations for not being played. I believe they can be hurt by playing them to soon or in a situation where they're set up to fail.

The really good ones overcome this (like Pionk).

 

[Gm0ney]

My favorite part of the SN coverage of this game was when they grudgingly conceded that yes, in fact, Zuccarello lodging his stick inside Morrissey's skate and causing him to fall is technically tripping if you want to call it all ticky-tacky like that...

 

[ps241]

Boys are having fun this afternoon!

ok that is great!

 

[JetsFan815]

Crow is so enjoyable. My Pionk crow is unbelievably satisfying!!

Same here. Loving the Pionk flavored crow. I have never been wrong a player as much as I was about Pionk this summer/preseason and it feels great to be wrong.

 

[PhilJets]

I have a manual ‘ignore’. If I start to read a post that doesn’t interest me or I don’t want to read I just scroll by. I don’t have anyone on ignore because at some point everyone has something o want to read.

in these days of social media you definitely have to find something that works for you.

I never have ignored a poster also...
even Aavgard....

 

[Duke749]

My favorite part of the SN coverage of this game was when they grudgingly conceded that yes, in fact, Zuccarello lodging his stick inside Morrissey's skate and causing him to fall is technically tripping if you want to call it all ticky-tacky like that...

They really said that? Wow. The very pro Wild broadcast wasn’t even that bad. They’re bias but not ignorant for it. Lol

 

[tbcwpg]

GDT is up.