Post-Game Talk: Skinned again

[TopShelfGloveSide]

The team result without Campbell was a one goal Game 7 Stanley Cup Final. Despite all professing their friendship for Campbell the team moved past it and as Connor implores 'dig in'.

You have a better read on Skinner's character and work ethic than I do. I don't live in Edmonton so I don't have ability to monitor player's off-season training or skill development. Will venture it's not apathy or indifference that get players to the apex level of competition. Skinner was a mid-level prospect that beat the odds to make the NHL. He's the only guy in a bad organizational strategy to burn like 9 mid-round picks over a decade hoping to find NHL goaltending. Frankly I'm amazed the guy didn't meltdown like Campbell did under the circumstances

But again to point, McDavid and Draisaitl have immense influence on this team and, if they didn't think Skinner was the answer, it could have been a requirement to upgrade the position, if as you've asserted for other players that the two moneymakers have and use their influence for player personnel decisions.

This team isn't outscoring their problems including below average, developing goaltender. It's also not helping themselves with inconsistent own zone defending notably odd-man rushes against, poor net front defending and weak side coverage support. Last night all of this year's team's challenges were on display. Magnified by the play speed and efficiency of a team playing with a $15 million dead cap hit.

Lol they aren’t going to go tell Bowman our goalie stinks. Look at their faces when he lets in stinkers… they are over it.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Lol they aren’t going to go tell Bowman our goalie stinks. Look at their faces when he lets in stinkers… they are over it.

Lol. I guess they've given up. Pack up the equipment bags, season's over! Everyone's given up.

I'm not the one who has alluded to McDavid and Draisaitl influencing personnel decisions. I believe they don't and wouldn't whether Brown 1 or 2 or otherwise.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Lol. I guess they've given up. Pack up the equipment bags, season's over! Everyone's given up.

…

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Lol they aren’t going to go tell Bowman our goalie stinks. Look at their faces when he lets in stinkers… they are over it.

What do you mean they're "over it"?

Here's some interesting stats comparing the Oilers after 21 games last season (when they had a 8-12-1 record after 21 games) to this season after 21 games where they have a 10-9-2 record...

Stats are from all situations:

Oilers in 23/24:

Shooting pct...... 10.06% .......... 16th
save pct...... 87.02% ............. 32nd
expected GF/60........ 3.62 .......... 1st
expected GA/60......... 2.87 ........... 8th
shots for/60........ 32.83 ............. 4th
shots against/60........ 28.35 .............. 7th

Oilers in 24/25:

Shooting pct...... 8.38%....... 30th
save pct...... 87.50%........ 31st
expected GF/60........ 3.16...... 12th
expected GA/60......... 2.69....... 16th
shots for/60........ 32.66 .......... 3rd
shots against/60........ 25.3 ......... 4th


So the team has arguably improved slightly defensively. Less shots against and less expected GA/60 now... but has definitely gotten worse offensively... pretty much the same shots for per game BUT look at that expected GF/60 number... almost a half goal less per 60 is expected now vs last season. So they are taking as many shots but the overall quality of shots is actually lower this year... leading to the next glaring stat... a 1.68% drop in shooting %.

This year the team has a slightly better save pct through 21 games than they had last year..,. 87.5% compared to 87.02%... obviously still not "good"... but slightly better than last season at the quarter mark.

So the BIGGEST problems from looking at those stats is...

1 Offense
2 Goaltending
3 Defense

Just doing a quick tally of the ranks in each category last season:
16+32+1+8+4+7 = 68/6 = 11.33 ... so the team was averaging 11th rank in all the categories last season at this time (with a worse overall record in the standings than they have now).


This season so far:

30+31+12+16+3+4 = 96/6 = 16 ... so this season they are averaging 16th in all the categories.

Point being the "underlying bones" of this team is worse this season at the 21 game mark than they were last season at the 21 game mark... even though they have a better record this year (22 pts at the 21 game mark this year vs 17 pts at the 21 game mark last year).

That Perry has more goals than every forward not named McDavid or Draisatl should be sending up some enormous red flags about our so called vaunted offense.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

What do you mean they're "over it"?


That Perry has more goals than every forward not named McDavid or Draisatl should be sending up some enormous red flags about our so called vaunted offense.

They don’t like playing in front of an atrocious goalie?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

They don’t like playing in front of an atrocious goalie?

Weird, they seemed to play just fine in front of the same atrocious goalie last year.

I would hope that our stars aren't that petty.

 

[North]

Embarrassing
Perry saying “everyone is playing their highest level against us”
This is the crystallization of the problem with this group
Here’s a vet, a leader saying this crap

OF COURSE THEY ARE PLAYING AT THEIR HIGHEST LEVEL, ITS THE NHL!

“it’s their fault because they are trying hard”

Unreal
Annoying

The problem is the Oilers aren’t playing at their highest level against them.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Last night, yes. Teams were getting to rebounds. Most nights the cleanup which is constant has been impeccable.

Anyway we won't agree on this one and thats OK. The D have more than been doing their job overall and in most cases have exceeded expectations. All of Ekholm, Kulak have been solid. Nurse and Booch for the most part doing well but with miscues. Emberson delivering more than expected. Not the least 2 of our 5 top goal scorers on the team are D. We have 14 D goals this season. Thats almost as much as all the forwards except McDrai have contributed.

This is not at all been an Eakins swarm like team where our net front has been easy to get to or stay in. All the stats bare this out. Shot suppression, HDSC supression. Plenty of stats cited by others even in the last two pages of the thread all refute what you're saying in bolded

have you really watched all the games?

The fancies are misleading and this is a prime example of how these stats aren’t telling the full story at either end of the ice. Just like in years past, the stats show we are good at suppressing hdca but they don’t differentiate for quality and the ones we do give up are almost exclusively AAA prime just like the ones last night.

I’m not putting it all on the D though, it’s a team problem because many times our C who should be supporting down low and at net front is too busy chasing pucks instead of taking his check or even worse blowing the zone trying to gamble for a rush chance. The result is always the same our defenders outnumbered at our net, which often results in them not taking their man.

 

[bone]

Yikes. KK is indicting himself thinking Skinner was one of top goalies in the league. So that blame can be spread to him for not realizing the obvious that the team needed to move in a different direction and find a starter. It wasn't always Skinner "bouncing back" the next game and in anycase bouncing back from what? Stinkers? Skinner has more of them than any starter I'm seeing. In most cases its the team bouncing back and pitching proverbial no hitters wherein even Skinner can get good stats. They did it 16 games in a row last season and only in a handful was Skinner looking like a good starter. Most times it was just team in front of him playing impeccably well.

KK gets some pts deducted for some of his asssessment. In that sense he's set himself up not realizing that the goaltending wasn't gonna be good enough.


With people blaming the D for that which I don't get. Its on one player. It is most of the time. Its also more than just kicking rebounds into the slot. Its kicking them to places that Skinner can't or isn't covering so that its far worse than just errant rebounds its perfect juicy goal creating rebounds. Its on a clown level all its own. "Skinner perfect assist" jebus

Imagine the pained expressions on D like Ekholm, or like Kulak etc when they see their own goailie often splaying rebounds to the worst possible area, right on sticks in a lot of the cases. Oh wait, I've seen that staring look quite a lot. Man, these are rebounds that create GA and disillusion.

To be fair, from Chrismas on he was pretty solid. Percentage over .905 in 24 of 35 starts, a 2.36 GAA and a .917 save percentage overall and only 5 of those were sub .880.

Granted the team was super solid in front of him making his job a lot easier, but he wasn't letting in as many stinkers. His playoffs looked like shit until Game 6 vs. Vancouver, but he did finish out the season pretty decent after Knoblach got the team on the right track.

It's just frustrating that we are yet again looking at a pretty terrible first 14 games from him like last year. First 14 last year... 3.37 GAA and .875 Pct, almost identical to this year's first 14 which are 3.33 GAA and .876 Save Percentage.

Last year he also had a slight uptick post Thanksgiving through Christmas, but after Christmas he was generally pretty good.

 

[bone]

Booch was responsible for the one. I don't fault him on the breakaway. I do fault Skinner for completely folding the tent allowing 3GA on the Leafs closing last 4 scoring chances. IN a game where they didn't have a lot of others. for 35mins the Oilers were owning this game. Its a typical Skinner loss though except usually he implodes giving games away in first periods. This time he saved his worst for later. Nobody could even explain what he was trying to do on the winning goal. Of for that matter on most of the GA.

It wasn't 3 goals on 4 scoring chances. It was 3 goals on 4 shots. The 4th shot was a really low percentage muffin. Granted the other 3 were good chances/shots, but f*** that was a piss off. Make just one save in the final 10 minutes of a close game, dammit.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Weird, they seemed to play just fine in front of the same atrocious goalie last year.

I would hope that our stars aren't that petty.

Petty to get annoyed with a sieve in net? Playing in front of a trash goalie sucks ass. They probably didn’t love him last year either when goaltending again tried to sink the season.

I’m done though. Keep your head in the dirt.

 

[Optimistic Cynic]

The problem is the Oilers aren’t playing at their highest level against them.

If they're not playing at their highest level is that a fault of the coaches?

 

[North]

If they're not playing at their highest level is that a fault of the coaches?

Is it the fault of every effing coach we had?

Same cast, same play.

At some point it’s time for the players to take stock and decide if they want to do the things they need to do to be successful.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The fancies are misleading and this is a prime example of how these stats aren’t telling the full story at either end of the ice. Just like in years past, the stats show we are good at suppressing hdca but they don’t differentiate for quality and the ones we do give up are almost exclusively AAA prime just like the ones last night.

I’m not putting it all on the D though, it’s a team problem because many times our C who should be supporting down low and at net front is too busy chasing pucks instead of taking his check or even worse blowing the zone trying to gamble for a rush chance. The result is always the same our defenders outnumbered at our net, which often results in them not taking their man.

One of the supreme reasons for the quality shots, excuse pun, is Skinner assisting on those with rebounds to worst possible areas. Last night Fleury even on an off night made half a dozen stops against superstars that Skinner doesn't make. Its indelibly clear what the wort problem on the team is and it isn't defense. its the guy that fails to make the stops. Any other game I watch teams are giving up more chances than the Oilers are and not getting buried for it. The D this year on the whole is a strength of the team.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The team result without Campbell was a one goal Game 7 Stanley Cup Final. Despite all professing their friendship for Campbell the team moved past it and as Connor implores 'dig in'.

You have a better read on Skinner's character and work ethic than I do. I don't live in Edmonton so I don't have ability to monitor player's off-season training or skill development. Will venture it's not apathy or indifference that get players to the apex level of competition. Skinner was a mid-level prospect that beat the odds to make the NHL. He's the only guy in a bad organizational strategy to burn like 9 mid-round picks over a decade hoping to find NHL goaltending. Frankly I'm amazed the guy didn't meltdown like Campbell did under the circumstances

But again to point, McDavid and Draisaitl have immense influence on this team and, if they didn't think Skinner was the answer, it could have been a requirement to upgrade the position, if as you've asserted for other players that the two moneymakers have and use their influence for player personnel decisions.

This team isn't outscoring their problems including below average, developing goaltender. It's also not helping themselves with inconsistent own zone defending notably odd-man rushes against, poor net front defending and weak side coverage support. Last night all of this year's team's challenges were on display. Magnified by the play speed and efficiency of a team playing with a $15 million dead cap hit.

I don't think either McD or Drai are great or clear on player preferences. I think they err on being very deferential and mostly non critical. They shouldn't be canvassed on team decisions and especially given their penchant for saying any player is making a contribution and instead being first to critique themselves. These attributes would be lauded in many roles but as evaluative its nothing like that at all. But that isn't their job. People like Jeff Jackson are practicing entirely beyond competence and not doing theirs. I'll maintain the offseason was a debacle in asset management, priorities and we lost several prospects/players and got back question marks. Terrible homework, as per usual by this club. The primary fault here as usual is management. I detest Skinner in goal but all the while realizing management continues to put him there.

Still unclear how you thought I was a Campbell lover. Nah, like Pickard he has better fundamentals than Skinner but almost any goalie that gets to the show does. Skinner is the weakest at fundamentals, basic skills that I've seen here in years. He isn't even a project goalie. But one that gets constantly propped up here. Skinner had little to do with getting the team to the cup. he had a lot to do with exhausting the team during the season and playoffs extending many series. It is ironic his best game was the Dallas deciding game. he has an occasional game like that. His bad games outweigh his good.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Agreed.

I'm not sure how many posters here watch teams other than the Oilers play, but if you do you would be amazed to see that when a goalie stops a puck, it doesn't automatically rebound into the slot. The puck tends to stick to decent goalies when they make a save, or it falls to the ice where the goaltender is able to smother it immediately

Not California Closets though...

Pucks shot at him look like instead of vulcanized rubber he's forced to stop Superballs.

Yeah its uncanny how bad Skinner is in rebounds. The worst I've ever seen at controlling pucks. he has virtually no touch, no direction, not sufficient anticipation to even control rebounds. Even on this team I can't comprehend how people don't see that even Pickard is much better at these attributes (while still having some problems)

Skinner is a joke as a starter. I wish he was some other clubs joke. or that the org would even notice or assess properly. How much runway is needed. He's getting worse. Even KK spotting that now.

 

[Soundwave]

Weird, they seemed to play just fine in front of the same atrocious goalie last year.

I would hope that our stars aren't that petty.

Actually they didn't.

The same thing was happening last year, our secondary offence was shit for the first 20 some odd games.

This season is the same thing, the only difference is last year we had about 9 more goals on the PP this time. But otherwise same shit, different piles.

 

[JeffSkinner53]

Apparently Gibson "would consider" waiving his no trade for Edmonton.

 

[Soundwave]

Apparently Gibson "would consider" waiving his no trade for Edmonton.

Yep been posted. The Oilers should "consider" adding him. It's a big call, but if you hit on that decision, you probably win a Cup. He's played on a perpetually rebuilding team and that has to take a toll on any goalie, but when he is on his game, I don't think there are many guys better than him on planet Earth.

In Feb 2023 alone, this dude had 3 games of 50 saves or more. That's unbelievable.

 

[JeffSkinner53]

Yep been posted. The Oilers should "consider" adding him. It's a big call, but if you hit on that decision, you probably win a Cup. He's played on a perpetually rebuilding team and that has to take a toll on any goalie, but when he is on his game, I don't think there are many guys better than him on planet Earth.

Oh sorry

 

[Soundwave]

Oh sorry

Totally fine, it's very news worthy. Frankly it should be the no.1 point of discussion.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Lets scratch one of the few players on the team that are even reasons to watch the team. This doesn't make sense for hockey reasons, for entertainment reasons, or at all for any reason.

I could think of players on the club worthy of being scratched or waived or not even here. Can't see that with Booch.

Seems we have our scapegoat of the year folks.

Maybe a better question on why the team is struggling would revolve around our Starter with a losing average and junkyard stats or why Booch is our 3rd leading goal scorer and third in pts. Yeah we're scoring so much lets healthy scratch that guy. jebus

What does entertainment have to do with it?
Also, call me crazy, but holding a more important/core player for playing like crap is more important than scratching a Derek Ryan

 

[Soundwave]

Just an aside, after making 50+ saves for the third time in a month, how did Gibson not just walk into the locker room and slap Dallas Eakins in the face?

lulz, how does that even happen, even the decade of darkness Oilers wouldn't allow that.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Yep been posted. The Oilers should "consider" adding him. It's a big call, but if you hit on that decision, you probably win a Cup. He's played on a perpetually rebuilding team and that has to take a toll on any goalie, but when he is on his game, I don't think there are many guys better than him on planet Earth.

In Feb 2023 alone, this dude had 3 games of 50 saves or more. That's unbelievable.

I wonder if the ducks see any value in Skinner. I doubt it.

Getting them to retain 50% would be pricey.

 

[Drivesaitl]

What does entertainment have to do with it?
Also, call me crazy, but holding a more important/core player for playing like crap is more important than scratching a Derek Ryan

It is entertainment. its the primary reason games are played watched. lol its the whole endeavor in pro sports.

Yeah its crazy to be talking about healthy scratching a player that got us the most recent win in Ottawa and was the best player in that game. Good thing you're not making these calls. Lets scratch a star D while we're short D and already without Nurse. Doesn't make sense.

On another club without McDrai it would be even more ridiculous to consider healthy scratching a PPG D. An allstar D. I guess only here this makes sense.