Post-Game Talk: Skinned again

[FiveFourteenSixOne]

We were always going to miss Smith and his .910-.923 performances for a paltry 2M per. Kosko whatever though, overpaid trash that couldn’t get a look from anyone except Euro leagues.

And yet, Kosko was still better than Skinner...

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Enduring Skinner for 3 seasons and even managing to rise to SC final despite him is not mentally soft. Its more a sign of fatigue that constantly visits this team due to the need to outwork opponents on most nights. Last night was one of the rare instances that the Oilers are outworked.

ps With Skinner in net we're not winning anything. We would've already with anything resembling competent goaltending.

Disagree with how much is spend on goaltending. We're near 10M counting Campbell contract. That money could have gone into at least adequate goaltending. Its not really the players fault if the org are at absolute bozos at filling basic needs. My own commentary, and plenty of record of it here, is Skinner would NEVER be my chosen starter. Wasn't hard, nor did it take that long to see his many deficits. We're paying him appreciably to be a goalie that shouldn't even be a backup imo.

We differ in how we view the character and resilience of professional athletes. And if, as you have suggested before that McDavid and Draisaitl have influence on personnel decisions with guys like Brown, then what would stop the two super elites from making their essential re-signing conditional upon management improving its goaltending (if they believed it was their fatal flaw and requirement to winning games and not giving up).

I remember your Campbell love and avoided putting the franchise crippling signing on the current priority setting of goaltending. Jackson had an off-season with money to spent and loaded it up on veteran forwards and re-signing a career AHL/NHL tweener back-up goaltender instead of exploring a true tandem option to push a young goaltender. I've long said Skinner is deficient as a modern era goaltender who are big, athletic, and agile. And that he should be developing as an NHL back-up over this team's winning window. He's sinking in the deep end because of management decisions and choices. Now, unfortunately this team's strength of fast attacking outscoring with a league elite PP has disappeared early and sloppy habits in own zone defending and bad goaltending can't mitigate the difference. Once able to outscore their goal suppression challenges, now they can't buy a goal beyond ol' break in case of emergency McDavid and Draisaitl Stack Line. The problems are throughout this team's play and personnel.

 

[McAsuno]

And yet, Kosko was still better than Skinner...

Don't tell that to our precious Oilers media.
Happily ran Koskinen out of town but protecting Skinner. Classic of them always defending the good ol Canadian boy and vilifying the Euros.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Minnesota had it so easy. Gameplan: just fire the puck at all cylinders on Skinner.
Why? Because his lateral movement and rebound control are both so f***ing bad that its not hard to get a goal as a result since he's so slow and flops everywhere in panic.

Multiple goals and attempts were just to get the Skinner rebound, which has obviously been scouted. Wild played us just as they should. Skinner was getting the assisting hand in multiple of their goals and constantly in their chances

Really its incredible a goalie with this poor mobility has a penchant for kicking out rebound where he's not....its a hilarious combination. One could say fatal on his bad nights.

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

Any magic Euro beans we can get for a cheap ELC?

 

[Stoneman89]

He gets a bit of a leash as he came here to be an option on the right side low in the lineup, but now he's having to carry even lower level partners while playing on his wrong side. He is what he is. The issue was the team not having better options making him this important to the team all because the wanted to sign the old man UFAs and bringing in other scorers when scoring was the least of their problems.

Ironically, despite investing only in scoring, they've actually got worse at scoring.

For sure, I don't have a hate on for the guy. I even applaud him for making it to this point. But as you said, and we all know, he is what he is. And management has boxed us into this mess.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Blackwood from SJ?

Dustin Schwartz doesn't count outside of the Oil Kings.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We differ in how we view the character and resilience of professional athletes. And if, as you have suggested before that McDavid and Draisaitl have influence on personnel decisions with guys like Brown, then what would stop the two super elites from making their essential re-signing conditional upon management improving its goaltending (if they believed it was their fatal flaw and requirement to winning games and not giving up).

I remember your Campbell love and avoided putting the franchise crippling signing on the current priority setting of goaltending. Jackson had an off-season with money to spent and loaded it up on veteran forwards and re-signing a career AHL/NHL tweener back-up goaltender instead of exploring a true tandem option to push a young goaltender. I've long said Skinner is deficient as a modern era goaltender who are big, athletic, and agile. And that he should be developing as an NHL back-up over this team's winning window. He's sinking in the deep end because of management decisions and choices. Now, unfortunately this team's strength of fast attacking outscoring with a league elite PP has disappeared early and sloppy habits in own zone defending and bad goaltending can't mitigate the difference. Once able to outscore their goal suppression challenges, now they can't buy a goal beyond ol' break in case of emergency McDavid and Draisaitl Stack Line. The problems are throughout this team's play and personnel.

I didn't have Campbell love I simply thought he was the best available of what we had. I wasn't a specific supporter of the acquisition. Its the one the team landed on. That said I do think the Oilers mismanaged campbell and scapegoated him and prevented him from rebounding. I do think he was slightly better option last season but the Oilers once again put Skinner on the throne. Which really was their intent all along as long as Woody was around.

I was no specific fan of Campbell, I go out of my way NOT to watch the Maple Leafs.

In anycase I appreciate the players on this team that are good, that are worth watching, and that keep me watching. My overall is that the org has botched the McDrai era fairly severely. Even competent management would have parlayed a decade of McDrai to an outright cup win by now. Arguably a dynasty under good management.

I don't absolve Skinner because he's not supposed to be a starter. I blame anybody as lazy as this, or uncaring about better developing skill, or training, or working on flexibility etc or improving. Many players are brought into a team with expectations and have to work hard or harder to try to match them. Examples of this here are Ekholm, Kane, Hyman. An example of a player that had the starting job thrown in his lap and hasn't improved notably in 3 seasons is Skinner. It is possible to rise to occassion. Or not..

 

[SupremeTeam16]

This part is inaccurate. The Oilers have competed fiercely in front of their net and have to constantly as Skinner pumps out rebounds on virtually any shot. Most nights the mopping up is dilligent, and over and above what most clubs do. This is an underated aspet of our defending now and the Oilers D are saving Skinner on many occasions. Not so much last night, but was atypical game.

The clear liability is that almost anything generated results in a rebound puck laying in front of the net and Skinner flopping like a whale. Like even last night.

The Oilers have been terrible at defending net front, end of story. Teams are getting to the front of the net unbothered and getting second and third chances, Foligno and Gaudreau goals from last night are prime examples of the Oilers net front defending.

At the other end Fleury was popping out rebounds as well, the difference is that the Wild did a good job of collapsing to net front and taking sticks while the Oilers defenders stand in front of their own net and watch like on the Foligno goal or let a guy skate right by them to cash a rebound like on the Gaudreau goal.

 

[McAsuno]

Multiple goals and attempts were just to get the Skinner rebound, which has obviously been scouted. Wild played us just as they should. Skinner was getting the assisting hand in multiple of their goals and constantly in their chances

Really its incredible a goalie with this poor mobility has a penchant for kicking out rebound where he's not....its a hilarious combination. One could say fatal on his bad nights.

Yep, its been like this most nights for him. He's playing like he gained 20+ pounds in the off season and his new pad additions aren't helping his slow ass speed either. I'm not saying the team was good last night because they weren't, especially on the back end. But the stats do show that the Oilers defense has been putting up respectable numbers defending and the main cause of sewaging this team's W/L record 1/4 into the season has been goaltending by a damn long shot.


He's so f***ing bad that playing average can't even be done by Stuart 'mustache bookworm podcast meditating hippie guru' overlord Skinner.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Oilers have been terrible at defending net front, end of story. Teams are getting to the front of the net unbothered and getting second and third chances, Foligno and Gaudreau goals from last night are prime examples of the Oilers net front defending.

At the other end Fleury was popping out rebounds as well, the difference is that the Wild did a good job of collapsing to net front and taking sticks while the Oilers defenders stand in front of their own net and watch like on the Foligno goal or let a guy skate right by them to cash a rebound like on the Gaudreau goal.

Last night, yes. Teams were getting to rebounds. Most nights the cleanup which is constant has been impeccable.

Anyway we won't agree on this one and thats OK. The D have more than been doing their job overall and in most cases have exceeded expectations. All of Ekholm, Kulak have been solid. Nurse and Booch for the most part doing well but with miscues. Emberson delivering more than expected. Not the least 2 of our 5 top goal scorers on the team are D. We have 14 D goals this season. Thats almost as much as all the forwards except McDrai have contributed.

This is not at all been an Eakins swarm like team where our net front has been easy to get to or stay in. All the stats bare this out. Shot suppression, HDSC supression. Plenty of stats cited by others even in the last two pages of the thread all refute what you're saying in bolded

have you really watched all the games?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The Oilers have been terrible at defending net front, end of story. Teams are getting to the front of the net unbothered and getting second and third chances, Foligno and Gaudreau goals from last night are prime examples of the Oilers net front defending.

At the other end Fleury was popping out rebounds as well, the difference is that the Wild did a good job of collapsing to net front and taking sticks while the Oilers defenders stand in front of their own net and watch like on the Foligno goal or let a guy skate right by them to cash a rebound like on the Gaudreau goal.

I understand that they're an Oiler nemesis but they absolutely schooled us last night. We should give a lot to credit to the Wild.

And I understand that the underlying numbers for this team look good but that doesn't always match the eye test. They were shit against Toronto, and it's not like Toronto was all that much better. They were even worse against Montreal. This team has the tools to absolutely dominate their opponents and yet they seem content to be on cruise control as if a playoff spot is guaranteed for them. Now that we have some injuries it's further exposing the lack of depth this team really has. It really makes those early losses to bad teams stand out when we couldn't score for beans. We're 1/4 of the way through the season and we're basically a .500 team. 10 wins, 11 losses. There's no 16 game win streak for this team this year. And if we don't at least clinch a division title I don't see us going far in the playoffs, especially since Vegas will likely stand in the way.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yep, its been like this most nights for him. He's playing like he gained 20+ pounds in the off season and his new pad additions aren't helping his slow ass speed either. I'm not saying the team was good last night because they weren't, especially on the back end. But the stats do show that the Oilers defense has been putting up respectable numbers defending and the main cause of sewaging this team's W/L record 1/4 into the season has been goaltending by a damn long shot.


He's so f***ing bad that playing average can't even be done by Stuart 'mustache bookworm podcast meditating hippie guru' overlord Skinner.

Its the same problem KK stepped into mroe than a year ago when he said the players are feeling as if any mistake is ending up in their net and they are playing tight. He was right. Somehow he got them to buy into outworking opposition extremely and almost erasing scoring chances against. But its an untenable expectation as an ongoing. Its odd KK didn't demand better goaltending in offseason.

 

[McAsuno]

Its the same problem KK stepped into mroe than a year ago when he said the players are feeling as if any mistake is ending up in their net and they are playing tight. He was right. Somehow he got them to buy into outworking opposition extremely and almost erasing scoring chances against. But its an untenable expectation as an ongoing. Its odd KK didn't demand better goaltending in offseason.

At least he called out Stu and (Bowman) in the post game last night imo.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

At least he called out Stu and (Bowman) in the post game last night.

Ironic that he calls out the goalie in a game where his entire team was asleep at the wheel.

But anyway, interviews are meaningless drivel.

 

[iCanada]

Minnesota had it so easy. Gameplan: just fire the puck at all cylinders on Skinner.
Why? Because his lateral movement and rebound control are both so f***ing bad that its not hard to get a goal as a result since he's so slow and flops everywhere in panic.

Literally 3 goals off of Skinner kicking juicy rebounds right into the slot. Laughable.

 

[Drivesaitl]

At least he called out Stu and (Bowman) in the post game last night imo.

Yikes. KK is indicting himself thinking Skinner was one of top goalies in the league. So that blame can be spread to him for not realizing the obvious that the team needed to move in a different direction and find a starter. It wasn't always Skinner "bouncing back" the next game and in anycase bouncing back from what? Stinkers? Skinner has more of them than any starter I'm seeing. In most cases its the team bouncing back and pitching proverbial no hitters wherein even Skinner can get good stats. They did it 16 games in a row last season and only in a handful was Skinner looking like a good starter. Most times it was just team in front of him playing impeccably well.

KK gets some pts deducted for some of his asssessment. In that sense he's set himself up not realizing that the goaltending wasn't gonna be good enough.

Literally 3 goals off of Skinner kicking juicy rebounds right into the slot. Laughable.

With people blaming the D for that which I don't get. Its on one player. It is most of the time. Its also more than just kicking rebounds into the slot. Its kicking them to places that Skinner can't or isn't covering so that its far worse than just errant rebounds its perfect juicy goal creating rebounds. Its on a clown level all its own. "Skinner perfect assist" jebus

Imagine the pained expressions on D like Ekholm, or like Kulak etc when they see their own goailie often splaying rebounds to the worst possible area, right on sticks in a lot of the cases. Oh wait, I've seen that staring look quite a lot. Man, these are rebounds that create GA and disillusion.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Ironic that he calls out the goalie in a game where his entire team was asleep at the wheel.

But anyway, interviews are meaningless drivel.

Its true to an extent. Skinners game is even worse this season. But he was never good in the first place. But his attention to detail, movement, anticipation is all worse, his giving up horrific rebounds far worse. I don't entirely dislike the odd game where the team plays badly because it exposes the fraud in net. At least with that theres a chance the org realizes they need to find a different starter. This is the goalie kill season. Albeit KK isn't sounding great here either I realize.

I understand that they're an Oiler nemesis but they absolutely schooled us last night. We should give a lot to credit to the Wild.

And I understand that the underlying numbers for this team look good but that doesn't always match the eye test. They were shit against Toronto, and it's not like Toronto was all that much better. They were even worse against Montreal. This team has the tools to absolutely dominate their opponents and yet they seem content to be on cruise control as if a playoff spot is guaranteed for them. Now that we have some injuries it's further exposing the lack of depth this team really has. It really makes those early losses to bad teams stand out when we couldn't score for beans. We're 1/4 of the way through the season and we're basically a .500 team. 10 wins, 11 losses. There's no 16 game win streak for this team this year. And if we don't at least clinch a division title I don't see us going far in the playoffs, especially since Vegas will likely stand in the way.

WE weren't shit against Toronto and outplayed them most of the night. The reason we lost is the same as usual. Clown Skinner.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Its true to an extent. Skinners game is even worse this season. But he was never good in the first place. But his attention to detail, movement, anticipation is all worse, his giving up horrific rebounds far worse. I don't entirely dislike the odd game where the team plays badly because it exposes the fraud in net. At least with that theres a chance the org realizes they need to find a different starter. This is the goalie kill season. Albeit KK isn't sounding great here either I realize.


WE weren't shit against Toronto and outplayed them most of the night. The reason we lost is the same as usual. Clown Skinner.

We absolutely did not. Once Nurse went down we went into complete passive mode. Not even one of their leaders getting KOed was enough to spark this team. And please, you know it was Bouchard who gave that game away.

 

[guymez]

We differ in how we view the character and resilience of professional athletes. And if, as you have suggested before that McDavid and Draisaitl have influence on personnel decisions with guys like Brown, then what would stop the two super elites from making their essential re-signing conditional upon management improving its goaltending (if they believed it was their fatal flaw and requirement to winning games and not giving up).

I remember your Campbell love and avoided putting the franchise crippling signing on the current priority setting of goaltending. Jackson had an off-season with money to spent and loaded it up on veteran forwards and re-signing a career AHL/NHL tweener back-up goaltender instead of exploring a true tandem option to push a young goaltender. I've long said Skinner is deficient as a modern era goaltender who are big, athletic, and agile. And that he should be developing as an NHL back-up over this team's winning window. He's sinking in the deep end because of management decisions and choices. Now, unfortunately this team's strength of fast attacking outscoring with a league elite PP has disappeared early and sloppy habits in own zone defending and bad goaltending can't mitigate the difference. Once able to outscore their goal suppression challenges, now they can't buy a goal beyond ol' break in case of emergency McDavid and Draisaitl Stack Line. The problems are throughout this team's play and personnel.

Excellent post.
I think that you have nicely detailed why the current situation falls entirely on Management and it started with putting all of the organizational eggs in the Jack Campbell basket.
It may have even started the year prior when Holland was trying to secure Markstrom and fell short by a reported $500K. He instead extended Smith and then painted himslef into a corner the following season because the market was such that Campbell was one of the better options.
Not that he was a good option (more detailed due dilligence would have revealed Campbells flaws) but that the market was so depleted of goaltending possibilities that Campbell become one of a few available UFA options. I was posting in 2022/23 that because Campbel couldnt carry the load the team was forced to rush Skinners development, Skinner should have been a backup in 2022/23 and again in 2023/24.
Instead the team put the load of being a #1 on him long before he was ready.
Now here we are.

Part of the issue as I see it is that having Draisaitl and McDavid masks a lot of whats really wrong with this team. Having the 2 best offensive players in the NHL allows the team to outscore their mistakes.
I would also suggest that it affords the same leeway to managment.
These 2 players have the ability to (temporarily at the very least) to obscure important roster issues.
It creates a mirage of sorts that invites a GM to minimize issues so that if he doesnt outright solve the issue he can just defer it.
That may be part of what happened to Holland when he decided against signing Markstrom.

It could be argued that Hollands approach to the goaltending situation ultimately cost this team a Stanley Cup in 2023/24. I have no doubt that the team would have fared better with Markstrom and Skinner than it did with Skinner and Pickard. At least 1 win better even with the reality of the salary cap (and the need to absorb Markstroms contract) at that time.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We absolutely did not. Once Nurse went down we went into complete passive mode. Not even one of their leaders getting KOed was enough to spark this team. And please, you know it was Bouchard who gave that game away.

Booch was responsible for the one. I don't fault him on the breakaway. I do fault Skinner for completely folding the tent allowing 3GA on the Leafs closing last 4 scoring chances. IN a game where they didn't have a lot of others. for 35mins the Oilers were owning this game. Its a typical Skinner loss though except usually he implodes giving games away in first periods. This time he saved his worst for later. Nobody could even explain what he was trying to do on the winning goal. Of for that matter on most of the GA.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Booch was responsible for the one. I don't fault him on the breakaway. I do fault Skinner for completely folding the tent allowing 3GA on the Leafs closing last 4 scoring chances. IN a game where they didn't have a lot of others. for 35mins the Oilers were owning this game. Its a typical Skinner loss though except usually he implodes giving games away in first periods. This time he saved his worst for later. Nobody could even explain what he was trying to do on the winning goal. Of for that matter on most of the GA.

How can you not fault him for completely dogging a backcheck after giving away a freebie? One or the other you could forgive but on the very next shift? Nobody should accept that. If that were Connor Brown he would've been on your BBQ faster than you can say "Signing bonus". That was a pathetic game which revealed their character. Or rather, lack thereof.

 

[FiveFourteenSixOne]

Multiple goals and attempts were just to get the Skinner rebound, which has obviously been scouted. Wild played us just as they should. Skinner was getting the assisting hand in multiple of their goals and constantly in their chances

Really its incredible a goalie with this poor mobility has a penchant for kicking out rebound where he's not....its a hilarious combination. One could say fatal on his bad nights.

Agreed.

I'm not sure how many posters here watch teams other than the Oilers play, but if you do you would be amazed to see that when a goalie stops a puck, it doesn't automatically rebound into the slot. The puck tends to stick to decent goalies when they make a save, or it falls to the ice where the goaltender is able to smother it immediately

Not California Closets though...

Pucks shot at him look like instead of vulcanized rubber he's forced to stop Superballs.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I didn't have Campbell love I simply thought he was the best available of what we had. I wasn't a specific supporter of the acquisition. Its the one the team landed on. That said I do think the Oilers mismanaged campbell and scapegoated him and prevented him from rebounding. I do think he was slightly better option last season but the Oilers once again put Skinner on the throne. Which really was their intent all along as long as Woody was around.

I was no specific fan of Campbell, I go out of my way NOT to watch the Maple Leafs.

In anycase I appreciate the players on this team that are good, that are worth watching, and that keep me watching. My overall is that the org has botched the McDrai era fairly severely. Even competent management would have parlayed a decade of McDrai to an outright cup win by now. Arguably a dynasty under good management.

I don't absolve Skinner because he's not supposed to be a starter. I blame anybody as lazy as this, or uncaring about better developing skill, or training, or working on flexibility etc or improving. Many players are brought into a team with expectations and have to work hard or harder to try to match them. Examples of this here are Ekholm, Kane, Hyman. An example of a player that had the starting job thrown in his lap and hasn't improved notably in 3 seasons is Skinner. It is possible to rise to occassion. Or not..

The team result without Campbell was a one goal Game 7 Stanley Cup Final. Despite all professing their friendship for Campbell the team moved past it and as Connor implores 'dig in'.

You have a better read on Skinner's character and work ethic than I do. I don't live in Edmonton so I don't have ability to monitor player's off-season training or skill development. Will venture it's not apathy or indifference that get players to the apex level of competition. Skinner was a mid-level prospect that beat the odds to make the NHL. He's the only guy in a bad organizational strategy to burn like 9 mid-round picks over a decade hoping to find NHL goaltending. Frankly I'm amazed the guy didn't meltdown like Campbell did under the circumstances

But again to point, McDavid and Draisaitl have immense influence on this team and, if they didn't think Skinner was the answer, it could have been a requirement to upgrade the position, if as you've asserted for other players that the two moneymakers have and use their influence for player personnel decisions.

This team isn't outscoring their problems including below average, developing goaltender. It's also not helping themselves with inconsistent own zone defending notably odd-man rushes against, poor net front defending and weak side coverage support. Last night all of this year's team's challenges were on display. Magnified by the play speed and efficiency of a team playing with a $15 million dead cap hit.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Here's some interesting stats comparing the Oilers after 21 games last season (when they had a 8-12-1 record after 21 games) to this season after 21 games where they have a 10-9-2 record...

Stats are from all situations:

Oilers in 23/24:

Shooting pct...... 10.06% .......... 16th
save pct...... 87.02% ............. 32nd
expected GF/60........ 3.62 .......... 1st
expected GA/60......... 2.87 ........... 8th
shots for/60........ 32.83 ............. 4th
shots against/60........ 28.35 .............. 7th

Oilers in 24/25:

Shooting pct...... 8.38%....... 30th
save pct...... 87.50%........ 31st
expected GF/60........ 3.16...... 12th
expected GA/60......... 2.69....... 16th
shots for/60........ 32.66 .......... 3rd
shots against/60........ 25.3 ......... 4th


So the team has arguably improved slightly defensively. Less shots against and less expected GA/60 now... but has definitely gotten worse offensively... pretty much the same shots for per game BUT look at that expected GF/60 number... almost a half goal less per 60 is expected now vs last season. So they are taking as many shots but the overall quality of shots is actually lower this year... leading to the next glaring stat... a 1.68% drop in shooting %.

This year the team has a slightly better save pct through 21 games than they had last year..,. 87.5% compared to 87.02%... obviously still not "good"... but slightly better than last season at the quarter mark.

So the BIGGEST problems from looking at those stats is...

1 Offense
2 Goaltending
3 Defense

Just doing a quick tally of the ranks in each category last season:
16+32+1+8+4+7 = 68/6 = 11.33 ... so the team was averaging 11th rank in all the categories last season at this time (with a worse overall record in the standings than they have now).


This season so far:

30+31+12+16+3+4 = 96/6 = 16 ... so this season they are averaging 16th in all the categories.

Point being the "underlying bones" of this team is worse this season at the 21 game mark than they were last season at the 21 game mark... even though they have a better record this year (22 pts at the 21 game mark this year vs 17 pts at the 21 game mark last year).