Post-Game Talk: Skinned again

[Drivesaitl]

The team defending has been erratic. Odd man rushes, weak side coverage has been terrible and forward support lacking far too much. I love Ekholm but he's also had wobbles this year with aggressive pinches that lead to odd man rushes and together with Bouchard's wild swings with decision making have been an issue. Fully agree with Knoblauch's comment about predictability. This is a holistic issue of bad goaltending and erratic, inconsistent team defending.

Unfortunately Bouchard's two-way game has slipped into wild inconsistency and his offense, specifically PP struggles is not outscoring the deficiencies. He's so important to the PP with likely the second most puck touches after McDavid and opposing PK's are pressuring him into high blocks, missed net shots, and blueline turnovers. I'd actually move Nurse short-term into PP1 for his mobility and ability to get pucks through. Ease some pressure off Bouchard to work on his two-way game.

The quandary is this team needs another puck moving defenseman to help quicker, efficient zone exits to try to ignite the Oilers fast transition attack which was a strength. Now this team appears slow and disjointed largely playing a half court game forced outside against defences with time to set up their structure and gameplan to stack middle ice and homeplate defending. Quite a contrast watching Minnesota's team structure move efficiently from defending to offense and exploiting terrible team defending and goaltending.

Skinner is a problem. He should be apprenticing as an NHL back-up instead of treading water as a #1 on a win now team. But the problems cross all area of this team with team defending and personnel gaps.

C'mon. As recently as a week ago all the stats and a lot of comments were about how much the Oilers were limiting in shot suppression, chance suppression etc. But having weak ass Skinner in net wears a team down. The battle level wasn't up to snuff last night because the club was being worked and looking demoralized. Oilers were only intent on trying to steal this game, not actually compete in it so it wasn't too representative. Skinner faced as many HDSC last night as he typically would in 3 games. Even at that last night it was 5GA 2posts, another 2 goals called back. Look, even though you get those goal reviews and two goals coming off the board the bench still knows these are going in. The Oilers get chasing in games like this in own zone because they fear giving up any shots on net. So some running around occurs. Lets not pretend Skinner wasn't a complete sieve last night or much of the season. I think he's maybe played two games well. Rest were junk or plain subpar. All the stats point to that as well.

 

[bone]

If that Shore goal goes in it’s “what can skinner do it was a perfect shot.”

Agreed about the pushed in the net though. Nothing he could really do there.

Either way the puck was getting past him a lot.

That line always frustrates me. If it's a 30-60 goal scorer, then maybe yes I can see that logic especially as McDavid and Draisaitl often score on shots like those. But it was Devin "f***ing" Shore, a guy who hasn't cracked 5 goals in a season since 2018-19 and hasn't scored more than 1 goal in either of his last two seasons.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I would honestly healthy scratch Bouchard right now.

Lets scratch one of the few players on the team that are even reasons to watch the team. This doesn't make sense for hockey reasons, for entertainment reasons, or at all for any reason.

I could think of players on the club worthy of being scratched or waived or not even here. Can't see that with Booch.

Seems we have our scapegoat of the year folks.

Maybe a better question on why the team is struggling would revolve around our Starter with a losing average and junkyard stats or why Booch is our 3rd leading goal scorer and third in pts. Yeah we're scoring so much lets healthy scratch that guy. jebus

 

[bone]

Lets scratch one of the few players on the team that are even reasons to watch the team. This doesn't make sense for hockey reasons, for entertainment reasons, or at all for any reason.

I could think of players on the club worthy of being scratched or waived or not even here. Can't see that with Booch.

Seems we have our scapegoat of the year folks.

People are already starting to turn on him thinking he's not worth the money that his next contract might potentially be, instead of looking to other who aren't showing anything close to the value of their current contract for this year.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Boils down to the team doesn't believe. With the offseason and what occurred I didn't either so that its not surprising. Still think team will make playoffs, because Pacific, and win a round once they are there but this is a sorry sorry roster and even older than last year. It was an absolute blunder offseason. The players seem to recognize it.

I'll say it again that the club has only 6 regulation wins in 21 GP. That speaks volumes in itself.

Add considerable fatigue, the loss of Kane, and the standard SC hangover and this was around where it was gonna land.

Even when we get wins its either against Nashville, or its because of McDrai. This feels like 2016 or 2018 again. Except now we don't have the hope of McDrai in prime. We have them aging.

There was next to zero chance J Skinner would come in here and be a positive responsible player. See how the team responds to him as well. Nobody even interacts with him and I wonder if they don't want him on the bench. I figure the coaching staff doesn't.

I wonder how long it takes for both Skinners to be pariahs here. Players like that KILL team enthusiasm. You can't have too many of those types of players.

I say the Oilers will make the playoffs, I say that primarily due to how weak the Pacific is now. You have to be a worse than LA, Van or Calgary club to even not get a top 3 spot.

But we're where we are in the standings and the team has even had the cheat code toothless Nashville Preds 3X. Count up the 3 wins on those as well in factoring in how abysmal this is.

I'm not buying the hangover excuse when the Panthers went to 2 SCFs in a row and still seem to be doing fine. They've had a creampuff schedule, how are they fatigued already?

 

[Drivesaitl]

People are already starting to turn on him thinking he's not worth the money that his next contract might potentially be, instead of looking to other who aren't showing anything close to the value of their current contract for this year.

Yep. The knives are out here once again. I don't get it. I slam useless players on a regular basis, I do, but what is it with the fascination of blaming players that are among the best players on this club? We're going to be hearing a lot of "trade him" comments and that would be yet another sad day were it to ever occur.

The triad of Allstars on this club have the kind of statlines that are somewhat what they should be. Its the rest of the team that hasn't delivered. Keeping min mind all 3 of these players would have a hell of a lot more assists if any of the other players were cashing at all. Or if Drai had anybody on his line period that was going anytime he's not with McD.

 

[iCanada]

C'mon. As recently as a week ago all the stats and a lot of comments were about how much the Oilers were limiting in shot suppression, chance suppression etc. But having weak ass Skinner in net wears a team down. The battle level wasn't up to snuff last night because the club was being worked and looking demoralized. Oilers were only intent on trying to steal this game, not actually compete in it so it wasn't too representative. Skinner faced as many HDSC last night as he typically would in 3 games. Even at that last night it was 5GA 2posts, another 2 goals called back. Look, even though you get those goal reviews and two goals coming off the board the bench still knows these are going in. The Oilers get chasing in games like this in own zone because they fear giving up any shots on net. So some running around occurs. Lets not pretend Skinner wasn't a complete sieve last night or much of the season. I think he's maybe played two games well. Rest were junk or plain subpar. All the stats point to that as well.

On the bright side, after Ingram got lit up by Washington, Skinner isn't exactly dead last in the NHL in GSAx, only second last.

But even after a couple lack luster games defensively since Nurse has been injured in which all our defensive numbers have fallen quite a bit... We're still acquitting ourselves very well defensively on the year.

Should be incredibly clear what the problem is.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

C'mon. As recently as a week ago all the stats and a lot of comments were about how much the Oilers were limiting in shot suppression, chance suppression etc. But having weak ass Skinner in net wears a team down. The battle level wasn't up to snuff last night because the club was being worked and looking demoralized. Oilers were only intent on trying to steal this game, not actually compete in it so it wasn't too representative. Skinner faced as many HDSC last night as he typically would in 3 games. Even at that last night it was 5GA 2posts, another 2 goals called back. Look, even though you get those goal reviews and two goals coming off the board the bench still knows these are going in. The Oilers get chasing in games like this in own zone because they fear giving up any shots on net. So some running around occurs. Lets not pretend Skinner wasn't a complete sieve last night or much of the season. I think he's maybe played two games well. Rest were junk or plain subpar. All the stats point to that as well.

They're an elite team that heavily tilts the ice. They don't give up volume chances but what they give up is significant quality with deficient team defending that manifests in odd-man chances against, poor weak side coverage and erratic net front defending, and holes in forward coverage support. Add a bad goaltender who doesn't make enough saves. Both are issues.

Oil have reverted to old habits of being outworked and comfortable to play a perimeter game while overhanding the puck. Teams are now aggressively defending the Oilers PP pressuring up-ice to disrupt and in zone defending Bouchard. They're defending the one-trick pony cross ice feeds to Draisaitl in his office. They've reverted again to running the Stack Line and when they're stopped this team is challenged to score.

This team's fundamental identity as a fast, transition attack team is muddled with poor PP and low scoring. The scoring has to normalize at some point. But this team's goal suppression work looks good on paper as an elite team but is an issue with killer breakdowns on risky decisions and coverage issues that a compound having an overwhelmed mediocre goaltender.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm not buying the hangover excuse when the Panthers went to 2 SCFs in a row and still seem to be doing fine. They've had a creampuff schedule, how are they fatigued already?

EC teams have had an easier time rebounding. See Tampa as well. Rebounds after SC appearances don't go well in the harder to play WC. Nobody recently in WC has done well the season after a SC performance. just what it is.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

EC teams have had an easier time rebounding. See Tampa as well. Rebounds after SC appearances don't go well in the harder to play WC. Nobody recently in WC has done well the season after a SC performance. just what it is.

I'm still not buying it. They haven't even left the country since Halloween.

 

[Drivesaitl]

On the bright side, after Ingram got lit up by Washington, Skinner isn't exactly dead last in the NHL in GSAx, only second last.

View attachment 934134

But even after a couple lack luster games defensively since Nurse has been injured in which all our defensive numbers have fallen quite a bit... We're still acquitting ourselves very well defensively on the year.

View attachment 934136

Should be incredibly clear what the problem is.

This really cheers me up my friend. heh

Its absolutely crazy that his GA expected is almost 1 over per game. Holy hell. That basically equates to the team having a 1GA stagger to make up everytime Skinner starts. Matches up with what I see.

 

[bone]

Yep. The knives are out here once again. I don't get it. I slam useless players on a regular basis, I do, but what is it with the fascination of blaming players that are among the best players on this club? We're going to be hearing a lot of "trade him" comments and that would be yet another sad day were it to ever occur.

The triad of Allstars on this club have the kind of statlines that are somewhat what they should be. Its the rest of the team that hasn't delivered.

I think it's reasonable to criticize his game, but benching him, pressboxing or trading him is where those posters lose me. They do that and all of the sudden Kulak is your number 2 guy. Emberson is your number 3.

For me if they wanted to send any kind of message to Bouchard maybe put someone else in his PP spot for 1 PP or 2. The PP isn't producing anyways, so that's messaging to clean up his errors to keep his gravy time. But anything prolonged? No way. He's easily the best right shot dman on the team and one of the few point producers that still producing points despite his defensive warts, so they have to keep playing him.

 

[Drivesaitl]

They're an elite team that heavily tilts the ice. They don't give up volume chances but what they give up is significant quality with deficient team defending that manifests in odd-man chances against, poor weak side coverage and erratic net front defending, and holes in forward coverage support. Add a bad goaltender who doesn't make enough saves. Both are issues.

Oil have reverted to old habits of being outworked and comfortable to play a perimeter game while overhanding the puck. Teams are now aggressively defending the Oilers PP pressuring up-ice to disrupt and in zone defending Bouchard. They're defending the one-trick pony cross ice feeds to Draisaitl in his office. They've reverted again to running the Stack Line and when they're stopped this team is challenged to score.

This team's fundamental identity as a fast, transition attack team is muddled with poor PP and low scoring. The scoring has to normalize at some point. But this team's goal suppression work looks good on paper as an elite team but is an issue with killer breakdowns on risky decisions and coverage issues that a compound having an overwhelmed mediocre goaltender.

Last night McD on his own got in front of Minny net 3-4 times. We had plenty of action around Minny net. Even on a bad night the team almost matched possession, chances, shots etc. I do feel Minny chances were more dangerous but primarily due to Skinner. Really anything was scary and almost any shot last night was a rebound. he was dropping rebounds like candy. Real goalies don't do that to anywhere near the extend of almost everytime. Skinner was so obviously off in this game that it would be near imppssible for it not to impact the players. They all knew this was "we need to score 5 goals to win night again and it was. As fans we knew it the team probably did. That impacts, and it impacts what coverage looks like.

On some nights, even majority the team is willing to dig deep, real deep to limit chances because they have to. but some nights that resolves dies easier. The Oilers expected to lose this game. One reason is Minny, the other was what Skinner was looking like. As fans we recognized that in the real time responses in PGT are full of that. Even though Minny had two goals called back first period, another hitting the post we as fans knew this was another Skinner shit the bed night. At 1-1 people had this game pegged as a loss.

Conversely even on a weak night Fleury stoned McD 3X. Once on a clean breakaway, 2 other times with McD allowed to walk right in front of net. One goalie made some big stops. The other rarely does.

 

[iCanada]

This really cheers me up my friend. heh

Its absolutely crazy that his GA expected is almost 1 over per game. Holy hell. That basically equates to the team having a 1GA stagger to make up everytime Skinner starts. Matches up with what I see.

He's had a couple of uhh... above average his season average games lately.

All of them he's been a negative compared to expected still, but you know... Baby steps.

 

[iCanada]

Last night McD on his own got in front of Minny net 3-4 times. We had plenty of action around Minny net. Even on a bad night the team almost matched possession, chances, shots etc. I do feel Minny chances were more dangerous but primarily due to Skinner. Really anything was scary and almost any shot last night was a rebound. he was dropping rebounds like candy. Real goalies don't do that to anywhere near the extend of almost everytime. Skinner was so obviously off in this game that it would be near imppssible for it not to impact the players. They all knew this was "we need to score 5 goals to win night again and it was. As fans we knew it the team probably did. That impacts, and it impacts what coverage looks like.

On some nights, even majority the team is willing to dig deep, real deep to limit chances because they have to. but some nights that resolves dies easier. The Oilers expected to lose this game. One reason is Minny, the other was what Skinner was looking like. As fans we recognized that in the real time responses in PGT are full of that. Even though Minny had two goals called back first period, another hitting the post we as fans knew this was another Skinner shit the bed night. At 1-1 people had this game pegged as a loss.

Conversely even on a weak night Fleury stoned McD 3X. Once on a clean breakaway, 2 other times with McD allowed to walk right in front of net. One goalie made some big stops. The other rarely does.

I find with Skinner you can tell in the first 5 minutes if he'll be a tire fire or not, pretty reliably.

It drags on the team for sure, they get in this mode where they're afraid to play their game and assert themselves, and then they just let the game come to them.

 

[KlefDown]

Missing 3 top-6 forwards, 1 top 4 d-man, Skinner in net, 4th game in 6 nights, against a team they NEVER beat? Ya I think I'll skip the doom and gloom misery porn in this thread from the usual suspects.

this is the kind of game - to - game thinking that gets teams to miss the playoffs party come april, there is always a reason or excuse to why we lose a game

looking as our record as a whole from game 1, the sleepy perimeter offence, the disastrous D, horrible PP that can't score to save a life, and the GOALTENDING (lack thereof), you see no concern with this? losing to teams like Habs and Hawks is not concerning? have you seen our record vs playoff teams? is that not concerning?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Last night McD on his own got in front of Minny net 3-4 times. We had plenty of action around Minny net. Even on a bad night the team almost matched possession, chances, shots etc. I do feel Minny chances were more dangerous but primarily due to Skinner. Really anything was scary and almost any shot last night was a rebound. he was dropping rebounds like candy. Real goalies don't do that to anywhere near the extend of almost everytime. Skinner was so obviously off in this game that it would be near imppssible for it not to impact the players. They all knew this was "we need to score 5 goals to win night again and it was. As fans we knew it the team probably did. That impacts, and it impacts what coverage looks like.

On some nights, even majority the team is willing to dig deep, real deep to limit chances because they have to. but some nights that resolves dies easier. The Oilers expected to lose this game. One reason is Minny, the other was what Skinner was looking like. As fans we recognized that in the real time responses in PGT are full of that. Even though Minny had two goals called back first period, another hitting the post we as fans knew this was another Skinner shit the bed night. At 1-1 people had this game pegged as a loss.

Conversely even on a weak night Fleury stoned McD 3X. Once on a clean breakaway, 2 other times with McD allowed to walk right in front of net. One goalie made some big stops. The other rarely does.

If this team is as mentally soft as you suggest they will never win anything. It's a major difference between a fan's perspective and professional athletes mentality. Skinner was bad. So was the team defense in front of him. Both can be true.

The Oilers shouldn't expect to lose any games whether Montreal. They're in the wrong business if that is anyone's mindset. Fleury's a first ballot hall of fame goaltender with a team that's committed to structured defending to protect their goaltending. It's been the Wild identity forever. The Oilers spent their money on offensive weapons and chose to cut corners with a treading water mid-level prospect guy in net and defense that will need to be upgraded to play hard, physical marathon series hockey in the playoffs. Unfortunately their identity as a high flying, big scoring specialty team dynamo has sagged with underperforming goal support, erratic team defending, and NHL horribad goaltending. There's concern in all elements of their game and with the off-season decisions made. But give up. If that's their mindset they are already cooked.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

They're an elite team that heavily tilts the ice. They don't give up volume chances but what they give up is significant quality with deficient team defending that manifests in odd-man chances against, poor weak side coverage and erratic net front defending, and holes in forward coverage support. Add a bad goaltender who doesn't make enough saves. Both are issues.

Oil have reverted to old habits of being outworked and comfortable to play a perimeter game while overhanding the puck. Teams are now aggressively defending the Oilers PP pressuring up-ice to disrupt and in zone defending Bouchard. They're defending the one-trick pony cross ice feeds to Draisaitl in his office. They've reverted again to running the Stack Line and when they're stopped this team is challenged to score.

This team's fundamental identity as a fast, transition attack team is muddled with poor PP and low scoring. The scoring has to normalize at some point. But this team's goal suppression work looks good on paper as an elite team but is an issue with killer breakdowns on risky decisions and coverage issues that a compound having an overwhelmed mediocre goaltender.

They’ve definitely fallen back into the same bad habits they had at the start of last season but this time they’ve added the issues they’ve had on the PP over short periods in the past.

Poor defensive zone support
Poor support on the breakout
Getting owned in front of our net
Predictable attack in the offensive zone and on the PP.

Skinner has been god awful and quite a few guys need to get it together from a compete stand point but they need to clean up their game in several areas.

It’s a wonder they’re still in the top half of league standings given how they’ve played.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

They’ve definitely fallen back into the same bad habits they had at the start of last season but this time they’ve added the issues they’ve had on the PP over short periods in the past.

Poor defensive zone support
Poor support on the breakout
Getting owned in front of our net
Predictable attack in the offensive zone and on the PP.

Skinner has been god awful and quite a few guys need to get it together from a compete stand point but they need to clean up their game in several areas.

It’s a wonder they’re still in the top half of league standings given how they’ve played.

That's the redeeming part of the equation. Through good fortune the division is wide open and they are right in the hunt despite all of the struggles to find consistency in any aspect of their game.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If this team is as mentally soft as you suggest they will never win anything. It's a major difference between a fan's perspective and professional athletes mentality. Skinner was bad. So was the team defense in front of him. Both can be true.

The Oilers shouldn't expect to lose any games whether Montreal. They're in the wrong business if that is anyone's mindset. Fleury's a first ballot hall of fame goaltender with a team that's committed to structured defending to protect their goaltending. It's been the Wild identity forever. The Oilers spent their money on offensive weapons and chose to cut corners with a treading water mid-level prospect guy in net and defense that will need to be upgraded to play hard, physical marathon series hockey in the playoffs. Unfortunately their identity as a high flying, big scoring specialty team dynamo has sagged with underperforming goal support, erratic team defending, and NHL horribad goaltending. There's concern in all elements of their game and with the off-season decisions made. But give up. If that's their mindset they are already cooked.

Enduring Skinner for 3 seasons and even managing to rise to SC final despite him is not mentally soft. Its more a sign of fatigue that constantly visits this team due to the need to outwork opponents on most nights. Last night was one of the rare instances that the Oilers are outworked.

ps With Skinner in net we're not winning anything. We would've already with anything resembling competent goaltending.

Disagree with how much is spend on goaltending. We're near 10M counting Campbell contract(yes I know buyout, just saying). That money could have gone into at least adequate goaltending. Its not really the players fault if the org are at absolute bozos at filling basic needs. My own commentary, and plenty of record of it here, is Skinner would NEVER be my chosen starter. Wasn't hard, nor did it take that long to see his many deficits. We're paying him appreciably to be a goalie that shouldn't even be a backup imo.

 

[Stoneman89]

Skinner wasn’t good but there’s no way you can convince me the team deserved any better fate tonight. Don’t think there’s a single guy you can say showed up for that one.

Agreed.

Skinner was not good at all, but there wasn't one guy that was respectable last night. Complete lack of effort and compete from top to bottom, including Skinner.

Bad game from Pod. Did a complete flyby on the first goal, allowing Boldy to have a clean snipe, and then took a bad penalty in the offensive zone.

Stetcher was brutal. Him and Brown played whack a mole most of the evening and it cost us.

Did RNH even play? Don't get me started.

 

[Drivesaitl]

They’ve definitely fallen back into the same bad habits they had at the start of last season but this time they’ve added the issues they’ve had on the PP over short periods in the past.

Poor defensive zone support
Poor support on the breakout
Getting owned in front of our net
Predictable attack in the offensive zone and on the PP.

Skinner has been god awful and quite a few guys need to get it together from a compete stand point but they need to clean up their game in several areas.

It’s a wonder they’re still in the top half of league standings given how they’ve played.

This part is inaccurate. The Oilers have competed fiercely in front of their net and have to constantly as Skinner pumps out rebounds on virtually any shot. Most nights the mopping up is dilligent, and over and above what most clubs do. This is an underated aspet of our defending now and the Oilers D are saving Skinner on many occasions. Not so much last night, but was atypical game.

The clear liability is that almost anything generated results in a rebound puck laying in front of the net and Skinner flopping like a whale. Like even last night.

 

[JeffSkinner53]

Exactly my point, everyone says “get someone”. Who is it?

Blackwood from SJ?

 

[bone]

Agreed.

Skinner was not good at all, but there wasn't one guy that was respectable last night. Complete lack of effort and compete from top to bottom, including Skinner.

Bad game from Pod. Did a complete flyby on the first goal, allowing Boldy to have a clean snipe, and then took a bad penalty in the offensive zone.

Stetcher was brutal. Him and Brown played whack a mole most of the evening and it cost us.

Did RNH even play? Don't get me started.

He gets a bit of a leash as he came here to be an option on the right side low in the lineup, but now he's having to carry even lower level partners while playing on his wrong side. He is what he is. The issue was the team not having better options making him this important to the team all because the wanted to sign the old man UFAs and bringing in other scorers when scoring was the least of their problems.

Ironically, despite investing only in scoring, they've actually got worse at scoring.

 

[McAsuno]

This part is inaccurate. The Oilers have competed fiercely in front of their net and have to constantly as Skinner pumps out rebounds on virtually any shot. Most nights the mopping up is dilligent, and over and above what most clubs do. This is an underated aspet of our defending now and the Oilers D are saving Skinner on many occasions. Not so much last night, but was atypical game.

The clear liability is that almost anything generated results in a rebound puck laying in front of the net and Skinner flopping like a whale. Like even last night.

Minnesota had it so easy. Gameplan: just fire the puck at all cylinders on Skinner.
Why? Because his lateral movement and rebound control are both so f***ing bad that its not hard to get a goal as a result since he's so slow and flops everywhere in panic.