Skilled group of forwards leads New York Rangers spring Top 20

[eco's bones]

Okay, guys. I understand what you are saying, and I am willing to take the heat for this, but I stick by my ranking. Here is why.

I believe that Kristo has the highest potential in the system. But, the style of play in Hartford is not at all conducive to him--the two-way, hard playing style will not work for Kristo, nor, BTW, will it work for Fast (who has points, but cannot score consistently). Lindberg has always been more of a two-way guy, which is why he will be more successful in Hartford than the more one-way style players (and even Lindberg has struggled offensively). Miller is completely different type of player, the old lunch pail type, and he is performing well. Heis the type of player that this system develops the best. But it still has to be said that Kristo has the most potential.

For those who are saying any of these players are sure things in the NHL, I disagree. Even, Miller who will likely be a regular NHL player, may not achieve his potential. All of the others that you mention are still far from certain.

What we can say for certain is that basically one-way skill guys don't do well in this system. But that does not mean they aren't the best prospects. It just means that a trade may be needed to bring out the best in them. And Kristo has been particularly baffled by what he has been asked to do--and the situation has gotten worse and worse over the season. That's a reason to trade him, not to let him go to waste or give up on him. True, he may never make it, but IMHO he is right now the most offensively talented and creative player in the organization.

As far as the other "notable players" go, I have given the HF editors my grades. Hopefully, they will be posted shortly.

Most of us are going to look at this as who has the best potential to make an impact on the New York Rangers roster in the next couple years. Kristo no doubt has skills--particularly goal scoring skills that are out of the reach of the others. To me sometimes people emphasize skill a little too much. Even if it's a necessary ingredient it's not the be all and end all of what makes for a good hockey player. Miller to me is the best--his game is more rounded. He's bigger, stronger, younger, better defensively and much more physical and he has quite a lot of NHL experience at this stage of his career. Just where he'll fit into the grand scheme of things in the next few years is as you say open to question but I think it's fairly safe to assume he'll have a top 9 role.

I can see some logic in ranking Kristo very high even if I don't agree with it. I can't really see him ahead of Miller.

As for Fogarty--your and irishlaxburger2's comments have me refiguring his status. His numbers have been disappointing but they don't always tell the whole story. The main thing for any prospect is that they continue to make progresss.

 

[Ola]

4-5 to 10 is pretty decent.

I like JT Miller, always have, I think you could do alot worse than having him as your top guy.

(1) He is a player that will make it

(2) When he makes it, you will like what you get. I.e. there won't be any dark years after the initial honey moon where you wonder why the player don't work harder, play better in traffic, don't perform in certain situations / roles / etc

(3) He is gonna become so solid in all clutch areas. He has a great platform to build on. He will get into the NHL soon and play a lot. And, he has offensive potential in him. This usually spells that a player is going to keep improving and its kids like this that often exceed the supposed potential that you get from looking at junior stats or whatever

Kristo should be around 5 on a good list. Fasth has more potential, but a broken leg and an injury filled season after that was not what he needed. He need to get back on track, hard to rank and isn't a good player in a top 3. Lindberg has not shown much this year, lets not expect people to credit him despite not performing. But, he has more potential and has before shown that he over a night can get to a level where he goes from being a bit marginal to where he more like "controll" the game on the ice. He got the MVP in the PO's in Sweden, it was more of a Rod Brind'Amour type of MVP than I don't know, someone pwning the POs. To put it like this, I think that in terms of talent there is a big diffrence between Jonathan Toews and say a Malkin, Lindberg was the Toews of the SEL. Hopefully he can get closer to that level in the AHL early next year. Allen is a decent prospect, but a bit short on top end offensive ability for a player in his mold. McI is a good asset, but still a couple of years away.

 

[NYRSchrute217]

The Rangers keep trading those picks. In 2011,they traded their 3rd to rent McCabe. They traded their 2nd and Caps 2nd(through Carolina for Sanguinetti)to Calgary for Erixon. Matt Nieto was taken a couple of picks after the Rangers 2nd. Who needs the American college boy? Erixon was traded in the Nash deal. Grachev was traded to the Blues for their 3rd which became Steven Fogarty.

No 1st and 2nd last June. The Rangers have a ton invested in Nash.

2nd,FLA 3rd(Wolski) and 5th in 2014 for Clowe.

No 2nd this June or No 1st if the Rangers win 2 playoff rounds. MSL will need to get going for that to happen. Love the excuses. Marty played 13 years in Tampa. He isn't used to change. Marty demanded a trade and got one. Now there is an adjustment period.

No 1st next year. The 5th was traded to VAN for Diaz.

Its going to come back and bite them on the ass. By that time,Sather will be retired and next GM will be left to pick up the pieces.

Right, some of the picks the Rangers have traded have been awful. I could talk about the terrible MSL trade all day. Some of the other picks dealt have just been a complete waste. A 5th for John Scott. The Rangers also only had 4 picks in 2012 and 5 last year, the highest being a mid-third rounder.

Agree that it'll come back to bite us in the ass.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Right, some of the picks the Rangers have traded have been awful. I could talk about the terrible MSL trade all day. Some of the other picks dealt have just been a complete waste. A 5th for John Scott. The Rangers also only had 4 picks in 2012 and 5 last year, the highest being a mid-third rounder.

Agree that it'll come back to bite us in the ass.

You think Sather cares? He'll be in a rocking chair in Banff when the Rangers are hit hard by this.

 

[slipknottin]

Kristo barely scores in the ahl. A two way game doesn't suit his skill set? What skill set? A floater who doesn't score or set anyone up? Yea top prospect for sure

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Okay, guys. I understand what you are saying, and I am willing to take the heat for this, but I stick by my ranking. Here is why.

I believe that Kristo has the highest potential in the system. But, the style of play in Hartford is not at all conducive to him--the two-way, hard playing style will not work for Kristo, nor, BTW, will it work for Fast (who has points, but cannot score consistently). Lindberg has always been more of a two-way guy, which is why he will be more successful in Hartford than the more one-way style players (and even Lindberg has struggled offensively). Miller is completely different type of player, the old lunch pail type, and he is performing well. Heis the type of player that this system develops the best. But it still has to be said that Kristo has the most potential.

For those who are saying any of these players are sure things in the NHL, I disagree. Even, Miller who will likely be a regular NHL player, may not achieve his potential. All of the others that you mention are still far from certain.

What we can say for certain is that basically one-way skill guys don't do well in this system. But that does not mean they aren't the best prospects. It just means that a trade may be needed to bring out the best in them. And Kristo has been particularly baffled by what he has been asked to do--and the situation has gotten worse and worse over the season. That's a reason to trade him, not to let him go to waste or give up on him. True, he may never make it, but IMHO he is right now the most offensively talented and creative player in the organization.

As far as the other "notable players" go, I have given the HF editors my grades. Hopefully, they will be posted shortly.

There is zero chance that Kristo has the highest potential, Lesllie. Both Duclair and Buch have higher potential. Much more, really.

 

[nyr2k2]

Buchnevich and Duclair seem to me to have higher pure offensive upside than Kristo. If that were the lone ranking criteria, those guys might be one-two. However, likelihood of reaching that potential and how useful a player would be if they fail to completely fulfill their potential are two other factors that ought to be considered.

JT Miller may not possess the same natural offensive ability, but I think he's a safer projection and should be useful even if his offense doesn't pan out. The samecan be dsaid for both Lindberg and Fast.

Kristo may have a bit more upside, but I see him as having significantly higher bust potential. And if his offense doesn't translate, he doesn't play in the NHL.

 

[Fitzy]

Looks like everyone else before me already agrees with my point that 8.0C is extremely generous for Kristo. I'd have him as a 7.5D.

Beyond that, everything seems to be about where I'd have it. I'd like to think Duclair can go higher than a 2nd liner, but we'll see.

I am guessing, given his age, that it is NHL or Juniors for Duclair next year.

 

[nyr2k2]

Buchnevich and Duclair seem to me to have higher pure offensive upside than Kristo. If that were the lone ranking criteria, those guys might be one-two. However, likelihood of reaching that potential and how useful a player would be if they fail to completely fulfill their potential are two other factors that ought to be considered.

JT Miller may not possess the same natural offensive ability, but I think he's a safer projection and should be useful even if his offense doesn't pan out. The samecan be dsaid for both Lindberg and Fast.

Kristo may have a bit more upside, but I see him as having significantly higher bust potential. And if his offense doesn't translate, he doesn't play in the NHL.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Buchnevich and Duclair seem to me to have higher pure offensive upside than Kristo. If that were the lone ranking criteria, those guys might be one-two. However, likelihood of reaching that potential and how useful a player would be if they fail to completely fulfill their potential are two other factors that ought to be considered.

JT Miller may not possess the same natural offensive ability, but I think he's a safer projection and should be useful even if his offense doesn't pan out. The samecan be dsaid for both Lindberg and Fast.

Kristo may have a bit more upside, but I see him as having significantly higher bust potential. And if his offense doesn't translate, he doesn't play in the NHL.

Kristo has game but he's also got holes. His conditioning and commitment have been questioned. Im hoping it's a maturity thing.

His overall game doesn't have much 3 zone play. He's an all offense guy who disappears for long stretches making his game prone to ineffectiveness and not.much score sheet activity

In a way, his career could mimic del zottos . I hope not.

If he's our best prospect then I'm even more down on our farm than before and I was pretty down. Lol.

I've been pretty vocal about our track record of drafting and developing 3rd line plumber types and so I welcome guys like kristo, buch and duclair. Welcome change.

I do agree with Leslie saying that kristo doesn't fit the system being taught in Hartford and thats disadvantages kristo by minimizing his impact skills and making him spend more time away from the puck.

Top to bottom our farm lacks pure skill. We have muckers, plumbers and guys who project out to 2nd/3rd line tweeners but prior to last Draft we had virtually no skill guys at forward or d.

That needs to change.

 

[doncherrysgrill]

Kristo will never see NHL ice as a regular
Miller, Fast, Skjei, Buchnevich and Lindberg will all become NHL regulars

I agree with the first 3, doubtful on Buchnevich and possibly on Lindberg.

I'd Miller, Fast, Duclair, and Skjei ahead of Kristo for sure. Haggerty and Lindberg I think are closer to where Kristo is. Kristo's advantage is that he's old enough and mature enough to handle the NHL, whereas I don't see Duclair or Fast or Lindberg there.

Haggerty is also an underrated prospect at 10. I think he could actually make an impact on the NHL level TODAY if you needed him to step in. Not Kreider-like, but if they didn't have Miller as a call-up I think Haggerty should easily be the guy to step in and play.

Skjei is further away from being NHL-ready than McIlrath, but is far and away the better player. Skjei had a rough Freshman year, but this season he's been GREAT. Allen is even closer than McIlrath and he's below them both. I don't get it.

 

[TheTakedown]

I really enjoyed this article, thank you for writing it up.

Like everyone else, I cant see why Kristo is ranked above Miller. Is it because Miller is more of a NHL ready player than a AHL talent ?

I would hardly say that Kristo is better, as well...

No because they think Kristo can play in the NHL now and make an impact in the offensive zone. His problem is that he is still a defensive zone liability.

Except that Fast, Lindberg and especially Miller are all out producing him. Very rare that a player produces more at the NHL level than levels below... actually almost never. Take away Kristo's hot streak to start the season, and you see some terrible minor league numbers. Has not been nearly as good as he was the 1st dozen or so games.

I saw about half of HFD's games, including about a dozen live and have a hard time putting Kristo ahead of those three up front, but that's just what opinions are.

There are some great hockey fans who follow HFD here in Beacon and BRF, and we pretty much see the same things. Miller's the best player down there. Fast and Lindberg have been excellent since December or so. Most NHL ready D there is Allen, and not McIlrath as of now.

Agree with this completely... But here is my question:

Why in the hell did we trade Christian Thomas, who fits AV's mold completely, for this dumbass Kristo, who is going to be 26, and hasn't played more than 10 NHL games...

The Flyers did the same thing for several years--trading away all their draft picks. They made up for it by making some astute signings of CHL and college free agents. The Rangers are going to have to do the same IMO. Haggerty was a good start but they need 3 or 4 more good ones just to replenish the lack of top drafts they've been trading away.

I would hope we hit a few home runs with the NCAA signings... it'll be absolutely crucial if we could nail even ONE good guy out of 10 signings. We're a big market team, so we can afford it.

 

[GrumpyMongoose]

All things considered with Stajcer, I'm a bit surprised Jeff Malcolm is still ranked below him.

Granted, Malcolm has been mainly in the ECHL but he has played pretty well for a team that allows a ton of shots.

I had a chance to watch him live in November (shootout loss, 29 saves on 30 shots) and he outclasses the ECHL talent.

 

[Mikos87]

Agree with this completely... But here is my question:

Why in the hell did we trade Christian Thomas, who fits AV's mold completely, for this dumbass Kristo, who is going to be 26, and hasn't played more than 10 NHL games...

Thomas didn't have the wheels or high end skill level to be a Zuccarello or Gallagher type. I think the will and effort is there, but the effectiveness is not with Thomas, who is very easy to root for.

The Rangers took a chance on a player that MTL no longer wanted, Kristo was a dominant collegiate player, but much like some high end college kids, he never committed to playing 3-Zone hockey and produced enough at NCAA level where he could get away with it.

I was very excited at the prospect of Kristo's upside until I saw a bunch of games in a row. Early in the AHL season he was on fire, but missed a lot of defensive assignments and had a lot of turnovers. That was okay because he was still scoring at a very nice clip, but outside of his shot (he can beat goalies clean with a snipe) Kristo isn't a useful player.

A guy like Fast is very serviceable if he isn't on the score sheet, and that's because he's just a lot smarter on the ice. Positioning, tying up sticks, preventing passes, back checking, working the boards, moving his legs all the time, blocking shots, using his teammates... all the things that it takes to succeed at the pro level. Same with Lindberg and Miller.

Kristo doesn't seem to have that, at least not in my eyes, and I think as a result, he won't crack the lineup no matter how much puck luck he may have from time to time. Both Fast and Miller have played 15-20 less games than Danny, and still have a higher scoring output in addition to being more useful out there.

 

[doncherrysgrill]

Why in the hell did we trade Christian Thomas, who fits AV's mold completely, for this dumbass Kristo, who is going to be 26, and hasn't played more than 10 NHL games...

Because a) Kristo is a better player than Christian Thomas
b) Kristo fits a need of this team more than Thomas, and still is a better fit if he were to be called up today. I think they're expecting him to play in the next year.

 

[eco's bones]

I would hardly say that Kristo is better, as well...





Agree with this completely... But here is my question:

Why in the hell did we trade Christian Thomas, who fits AV's mold completely, for this dumbass Kristo, who is going to be 26, and hasn't played more than 10 NHL games...


I would hope we hit a few home runs with the NCAA signings... it'll be absolutely crucial if we could nail even ONE good guy out of 10 signings. We're a big market team, so we can afford it.

Rangers should have plenty of openings next year at least in Hartford. Still they have to compete with 29 other teams for free agents--and some players will want to play elsewhere than New York.

Kristo is going to be 24 in June. It's going to be a while before he's 26. IMO Christian Thomas is an even bigger reach to become a full time NHL'er than Kristo.

 

[slipknottin]

dumbass Kristo, who is going to be 26, and hasn't played more than 10 NHL games...

Nothing like fact checking before you post.

He will be 24 in June.

Thats what age he should be seeing as he went to college for 4 years and has spent a year in the AHL.

 

[TheTakedown]

Nothing like fact checking before you post.

He will be 24 in June.

Thats what age he should be seeing as he went to college for 4 years and has spent a year in the AHL.

OK... totally read into this the wrong way...

Another post I read a ways back stated that Kristo was going to be a UFA... I should have checked Capgeek, because Kristo is going to be an RFA... Which is manageable. Looks like his QO is very small... $826,875...

Didn't think we'd be able to give him a minor league contract but it looks like we can... I guess this wasn't too bad of an idea after all...

I still think Thomas' shot would have been very helpful with AV... not sure why. just a gut feeling

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Nothing like fact checking before you post.

He will be 24 in June.

Thats what age he should be seeing as he went to college for 4 years and has spent a year in the AHL.

Yeah, but he'll be 25 by next July 1, at which point he's a group 6 UFA and we lose his rights if he hasn't played 80 NHL games by then.

For the record, I do agree about the HFD system (why is Gernander not playing the same system the Rangers play?), but I don't think that changes the fact that there's no way Kristo is any better than about the 5th prospect in the org.

 

[nyr2k2]

All things considered with Stajcer, I'm a bit surprised Jeff Malcolm is still ranked below him.

Granted, Malcolm has been mainly in the ECHL but he has played pretty well for a team that allows a ton of shots.

I had a chance to watch him live in November (shootout loss, 29 saves on 30 shots) and he outclasses the ECHL talent.

Malcolm isn't ranked because he's technically not a Rangers prospect--he was signed by Hartford to an AHL deal.

 

[Zil]

Yeah, but he'll be 25 by next July 1, at which point he's a group 6 UFA and we lose his rights if he hasn't played 80 NHL games by then.

For the record, I do agree about the HFD system (why is Gernander not playing the same system the Rangers play?), but I don't think that changes the fact that there's no way Kristo is any better than about the 5th prospect in the org.

He only becomes a UFA if the Rangers sign him to a one year deal. If he takes a two year deal it's a non-issue.

 

[vipernsx]

How is Kristo above Miller?

Agreed and Skjei needs to be in the top5. The kid has McD part deux written all over him. He could be a solid midseason call up, just like McD was. IMO we're going to see Skjei leapfrog McIlrath just like MDZ did Sanguinetti.

If Kristo and McIlrath haven't made it yet, they're likelihood of doing so is very slim.

 

[McDunna with Fries]

Isn't this thread all a matter of semantics?

It's how each of us defines potential.

If you're defining potential to mean greatest chance of succeeding, Kristo has no chance at being #1, which most people tend to believe.

If you're defining potential to mean highest ceiling, then Kristo is arguably #1.

 

[slipknottin]

Isn't this thread all a matter of semantics?

It's how each of us defines potential.

If you're defining potential to mean greatest chance of succeeding, Kristo has no chance at being #1, which most people tend to believe.

If you're defining potential to mean highest ceiling, then Kristo is arguably #1.

Kristo isn't top 5 for me in terms of highest ceiling. That's why I completely disagree with the ratings.

 

[NYR Viper]

Agreed and Skjei needs to be in the top5. The kid has McD part deux written all over him. He could be a solid midseason call up, just like McD was. IMO we're going to see Skjei leapfrog McIlrath just like MDZ did Sanguinetti.

If Kristo and McIlrath haven't made it yet, they're likelihood of doing so is very slim.

Huh? Until Skjei plays top pairing in the AHL I find it hard to say he will "leapfrog" McIlrath. Especially considering they play opposite sides.