Since 2008 only 4 goalies who have won the cup were a net negative to their team

[Bjornar Moxnes]

2022 avalanche winning the cup when Kuemper was a sieve is amazing. Hill was low-key an mvp last season and I legit feel he might have saved the season against the Oilers.

Click to read more...

 

[D1az]

Binnington and Niemi surprise me.
Niemi being a fairly clear net-positive on goals saved above expected, while Binnington being a slight negative makes me feel like I experienced alternative realities during those playoffs.

 

[jetsforever]

Crazy that some of these guys are Cup-winning goalies

 

[blundluntman]

Adin Hill having the 2nd highest GSAX but not winning the smythe that year really makes me question the voting committee's criteria. I get he's not a big name goalie like the majority of guys to win it, but I can't help but think they'd throw the smythe at any other star goalie if they put up those numbers. It's not like Marchessault was a unanimous shoe in either.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Keep in mind Kuemper was top five in the regular season in both SV% and GSAx and then suffered an eye injury in the first round of the playoffs that caused him to miss time.

His overall playoff numbers were not good, but let's not act like he was a scrub either.

 

[Alexei Yashvalev]

Adin Hill having the 2nd highest GSAX but not winning the smythe that year really makes me question the voting committee's criteria. I get he's not a big name goalie like the majority of guys to win it, but I can't help but think they'd throw the smythe at any other star goalie if they put up those numbers. It's not like Marchessault was a unanimous shoe in either.

The criteria is name recognition and the feels. Always has been.

 

[pi314]

Binnington and Niemi surprise me.
Niemi being a fairly clear net-positive on goals saved above expected, while Binnington being a slight negative makes me feel like I experienced alternative realities during those playoffs.

These stats are far from perfect.

Tim Thomas felt otherworldly in his run.

 

[Dust]

Adin Hill having the 2nd highest GSAX but not winning the smythe that year really makes me question the voting committee's criteria. I get he's not a big name goalie like the majority of guys to win it, but I can't help but think they'd throw the smythe at any other star goalie if they put up those numbers. It's not like Marchessault was a unanimous shoe in either.

Part of it is likely that he only started in 14 games, Brossoit had the other 8.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Binnington and Niemi surprise me.
Niemi being a fairly clear net-positive on goals saved above expected, while Binnington being a slight negative makes me feel like I experienced alternative realities during those playoffs.

That year in the finals Flyers had trash goalies also.

 

[Tryblot]

Binnington and Niemi surprise me.
Niemi being a fairly clear net-positive on goals saved above expected, while Binnington being a slight negative makes me feel like I experienced alternative realities during those playoffs.

The problem with binningtons run is he had games where he just shit the bed, usually once a series giving up at least 5+ goals but nobody remembers that because of how he played in the games that matter.

 

[Reality Check]

Hence why I will always believe Detroit repeats in '09 if they faced any team other than Pittsburgh again.

 

[Xerloris]

I believe that Binningtons numbers were because the Bruins blew us out a couple times in the finals. Otherwise he was pretty spectacular.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Hence why I will always believe Detroit repeats in '09 if they faced any team other than Pittsburgh again.

I'm a little confused what that has to do with that chart?

 

[kingsholygrail]

I count 3. Which is the 4th?

 

[Dirty Dan]

These stats are far from perfect.

Tim Thomas felt otherworldly in his run.

He made saves he had no business making like Bob is doing. But Vas is just a massive body , not much too shoot at

 

[Shaman464]

It’s sometimes hard to remember that Ozzie, while pedestrian on average, he had some pretty great runs in his career.

 

[EdJovanovski]

@Machinehead

 

[BlueSeal]

There's some Ben Kenobi-styled revisionist history going on in this thread lol.

 

[Machinehead]

@Machinehead

The institution of goaltending is important.

The individuals are not.

Look at some of those names that had great runs.

Also the fact that four goalies playing bad have won Cups int he last 16 years is not an own. That's a f***ing quarter of them LMAO.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Also the fact that four goalies playing bad have won Cups int he last 16 years is not an own. That's a f***ing quarter of them LMAO.

Did you really just try to prove your point by calling goalies 0,0x under expected "[playing] bad"?

 

[CashMash]

The institution of goaltending is important.

The individuals are not.

Look at some of those names that had great runs.

Also the fact that four goalies playing bad have won Cups int he last 16 years is not an own. That's a f***ing quarter of them LMAO.

I don't know... Sounds like some commie gobledegook to me.

There are many ways to build a cup contender. That doesn't mean you get to devalue a whole position like that. If McDavid never wins a cup despite stellar performances like Henrik Lundqvist, would you say individual forwards aren't important.

Quick was key in the Kings' first cup. Some goalies are definitely better than others. I might not as readily give out big contracts over small sample sizes as I would for forwards, but GMs make mistakes on forwards all the time.

Couldn't you say "The institution of hockey team is important; the individuals are not?"

In short, agree to disagree.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't know... Sounds like some commie gobledegook to me.

There are many ways to build a cup contender. That doesn't mean you get to devalue a whole position like that. If McDavid never wins a cup despite stellar performances like Henrik Lundqvist, would you say individual forwards aren't important.

Quick was key in the Kings' first cup. Some goalies are definitely better than others. I might not as readily give out big contracts over small sample sizes as I would for forwards, but GMs make mistakes on forwards all the time.

Couldn't you say "The institution of hockey team is important; the individuals are not?"

In short, agree to disagree.

I don't think it's not important because great goalies don't win. I think it's not important because garbage goalies do win.

Did you really just try to prove your point by calling goalies 0,0x under expected "[playing] bad"?

Yeah?

That's what they're doing.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Yeah?

That's what they're doing.

It's 1 goal in 20 games below expected. It's the difference between Blues losing game 3 of the finals 6-2 or 7-2. It's consensus that Binnington was great in those PO. But sure you want to throw around blanket statements removing any possible nuance based on the slimmest possible margin, a line drawn in the sand, because it serves your narrative.

Frankly, I don't even know your narrative or why you were tagged. But your take on the usage of these stats is just.. desperate, for lack of a better term.

 

[CashMash]

I don't think it's not important because great goalies don't win. I think it's not important because garbage goalies do win.

Yeah?

That's what they're doing.

Sure, but so do garbage forwards and garbage d-men. What makes that less noticeable is that there are more of them. Letang went down and the Pens STILL won the cup.

I don't know... I'd still rather want to be secure in net if it doesn't HURT my chances. The Bruins wouldn't have won without Thomas. I know you said it's not because great goalies don't win, but that garbage goalies can win. The problem is that terrible goaltending can absolutely SINK a team as well.

 

[BigEezyE22]

They should also break out number of positive games versus number of negative games. 2 or 3 stinkers on in an otherwise solid run could show something.