Since 1989-90... give me your best, peak condition, Team Canada, Team USA, or Team Europe

[Overrated]

Kamensky crossed my mind yesterday when I began thinking of this, but then I forgot. Makarov too, but I couldn’t find time for his old version considering the depth at RW. Kamensky makes a lot of sense at LW though!

Given his cerebral playmaker first goalscorer second playstyle I'm pretty sure Makarov could easily play LW. It's still intriguing to me why did he play RW and Krutov LW to me to this day. It's a rare sight for a star goalscorer to play LW while being right handed (left shot). Ovi plays LW but he of course shoots right. One more guy who did that like Krutov was Bobby Hull. You get a lot worse angles to shoot from the LW although you can protect the puck easier.

 

[bobholly39]

I'm actually tempted to have Carey Price as #1 goalie for Canada. Yes - above Brodeur and even Roy.

Rationale being - for peak, Price has an argument already of having best season (and his best single playoff run is quite tremendous too, best effort among the 3 goalies taking a weaker team far). He also definitely has the best international resume among the 3. I'd be very tempted to slot him #1, if I could only choose 1 goalie.

I don't think goalie matters much in the end - Canada wins due to Gretzky, Lemieux, etc.

 

[Garl]

If it is peak condition, Sedins must be in

 

[JackSlater]

Kozlov - Fedorov - Bure
Forsberg - Sundin - Jagr
Ovechkin - Malkin - Kucherov
Selänne - Koivu - Lehtinen
Hossa

Fetisov - Konstantinov
Lidström - Karlsson
Hedman - Chara
Zubov

Hasek
Lundqvist
Kiprusoff

It’s hard! I tried for a different take where ultimately great players from relative “minnow countries” are getting shafted for… reasons. Kopitar and Draisaitl are obviously great, but I feel as if bringing at least a pair of players from each country might alleviate some of the sense of the team being a gimmicky mishmash, or something.

I’d like to bring a “Russian five” with some grasp of the concept, which is why Fetisov and Konstantinov are there, but it’s hard to figure Kozlov and Larionov onto the team given who I’m forced into leaving behind… Did keep Kozlov for position, in the end, but wasn’t sure if Bure, Mogilny or some next generation guy would do better there.

The Finnish line was great internationally, I think it makes a lot of sense bringing them. If this was a team, I wouldn’t be surprised if that line would be its X factor. I do see a lot of issues, ie. that Ovechkin was bad with Malkin and such. I really liked Jack Slater’s line with OV next to Sundin (would use him as center) and Forsberg, but Jagr with them would also be an absolute pain to play against.

Yeah, especially the Russians were tough to figure out here.

Vasilevskiy is a top 3 goalie here but I went with Kipper, then immediately regretted not bringing Myllys instead.

Jagr and Ovechkin are likely the two best skaters on Europe but I find them both somewhat hard to build around in this context. They're two of the best one man armies in hockey history, especially since it's peak Ovechkin. I figured that Forsberg is basically a very rich man's Backstrom and he and Sundin can do the dirty work, plus Sundin did play wing successfully. I think that line dominates. Give Jagr at least one player who can be good to go without seeing the puck that often and he should be great too, sort of like the Francis role when Pittsburgh had its super line.

I'm actually tempted to have Carey Price as #1 goalie for Canada. Yes - above Brodeur and even Roy.

Rationale being - for peak, Price has an argument already of having best season (and his best single playoff run is quite tremendous too, best effort among the 3 goalies taking a weaker team far). He also definitely has the best international resume among the 3. I'd be very tempted to slot him #1, if I could only choose 1 goalie.

I don't think goalie matters much in the end - Canada wins due to Gretzky, Lemieux, etc.

It won't be popular but I think it's defensible. I lean toward thinking that the real Price was closer to his reputation than to his numbers, but many won't see it that way.

 

[Dingo]

If it is peak condition, Sedins must be in

i dont agree, but i see what you are saying and its close.

Forsberg, Ovechkin, Malkin, Fedorov, Kucherov, Jagr all had superior seasons at their best, i am confident in this. Selanne and Bure didnt win Art Ross', but goals were through the roof and they had healthy Jagr, and others, to compete against.

Draisaitl also had a Ross and Hart, i think. He gets an asterisk a bit because he has lived off of McDavid to some degree, but he has also outpaced him, while the Sedins lived off of each other and i cant imagine either outpacing McD.

The Sedins have higher accolades than my checking line of Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Kopitar, however, at no point did i ever think they were actually better than the Red Wings' twins, and Kopitar hit his stride later, but he is the same type of player.

tHere is definitely an argument for them, but, ill stick with those 12 for now.

 

[MadLuke]

I'm actually tempted to have Carey Price as #1 goalie for Canada. Yes - above Brodeur and even Roy.

Rationale being - for peak, Price has an argument already of having best season (and his best single playoff run is quite tremendous too, best effort among the 3 goalies taking a weaker team far). He also definitely has the best international resume among the 3. I'd be very tempted to slot him #1, if I could only choose 1 goalie.

I don't think goalie matters much in the end - Canada wins due to Gretzky, Lemieux, etc.

Only issue I see with going for anyone above Roy and Roy being there is how well it would work, depending which version we talk about maybe better leave him home like they did.

You know the Price-Brodeur-Luongo would not be an issue on the bench. Peak ego Roy....

 

[Dingo]

Only issue I see with going for anyone above Roy and Roy being there is how well it would work, depending which version we talk about maybe better leave him home like they did.

You know the Price-Brodeur-Luongo would not be an issue on the bench. Peak ego Roy....

I'd like a black S500 to meet me at the airport. I need the interior of that car to be set at 71 degrees fahrenheit, no more, no less...

ya, If you bring Roy don't dare play the other goalies..... unless he demands it.. or looks like he might be thinking of demanding it

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Peak condition means you gotta have Thomas in net for the US

 

[Michael Farkas]

When I think "peak condition"...

 

[KillerMillerTime]

It's a weird quirk of American development. Every country has some. Russians produce great offensive forces on the wing but relatively bad defencemen, Swedes produce very well rounded players but lack explosiveness, Canada forces players with natural winger games to centre etc. When making an all time American team a few weeks back I struggled to think of the best American playmaking centre, in the sense of a classic pass first playmaker. Probably Weight?



A friend of mine, not a scout by any means, always generally referred to American players as skate hard, shoot hard, try hard. A lot of players looking to shoot first and relying on physical attributes for a long time, but a lot more variety now.

Janney
Weight
Ftorek
Broten

 

[JackSlater]

As noted the USA team is almost the same as an all time USA team, but anyway I'd go with this:

K. Tkachuk Modano Hull
LeClair Matthews Kane
M. Tkachuk Lafontaine Roenick
Parise Kesler Pavelski
Weight, Otto

R. Suter Chelios
Slavin Leetch
G. Suter Fox
Hughes, D. Hatcher

Quick
Hellebuyck
Miller

Howe is the biggest loss from before 1990, great defenceman and balances the unit well. He may stand out but I am a big fan of Slavin.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Peak condition means you gotta have Thomas in net for the US

Tim Thomas on the national team… strikes me as plain bad. He had a .925 s% in the 2008 World Championships, allowing just one goal on 36 shots between Latvia and Slovenia games before being torched in one period by Canada and replaced with Robert Esche, apparently for the rest of the tournament. Really strong US rosters on paper but goaltending wasn’t up to snuff.

For the 2014 world championships he was the starter, pretty strong support does alright against Belarus and Switzerland, then surrenders 5 goals against Russia (out of 15 SOG) before being substituted by AHL legend David Leggio. Next game he’s back in net, allows 6 goals out of 25 shots in a 6-5 loss to Latvia.

Has a good game against Team Finland led by old Olli Jokinen and mostly Euro leaguers, then allows the Germans to tie the game thrice in a 5-4 win, before a quarterfinal exit vs the Czechs where he allowed four unanswered goals in a game that ended 4-3.

I admit this is too anecdotal for a fair criticism against Thomas, but I had to check his only appearance in an Olympic game as well. When Team USA was up 6-0 with 12 minutes to go against Finland in the 2010 semifinals, Thomas came on to allow Miller a rest. Game ended 6-1.

I really do think there’s something to the idea of the Bruins team defense making Thomas seem a bit better than he actually was, though.

 

[Dingo]

Thomas is on my shortlist. I havent done the Yanks, yet.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

As noted the USA team is almost the same as an all time USA team, but anyway I'd go with this:

K. Tkachuk Modano Hull
LeClair Matthews Kane
M. Tkachuk Lafontaine Roenick
Parise Kesler Pavelski
Weight, Otto

R. Suter Chelios
Slavin Leetch
G. Suter Fox
Hughes, D. Hatcher

Quick
Hellebuyck
Miller

Howe is the biggest loss from before 1990, great defenceman and balances the unit well. He may stand out but I am a big fan of Slavin.

Peak Ftorek better than Kesler

Early Howe today may have been a US Bergeron type Center.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Tim Thomas on the national team… strikes me as plain bad. He had a .925 s% in the 2008 World Championships, allowing just one goal on 36 shots between Latvia and Slovenia games before being torched in one period by Canada and replaced with Robert Esche, apparently for the rest of the tournament. Really strong US rosters on paper but goaltending wasn’t up to snuff.

For the 2014 world championships he was the starter, pretty strong support does alright against Belarus and Switzerland, then surrenders 5 goals against Russia (out of 15 SOG) before being substituted by AHL legend David Leggio. Next game he’s back in net, allows 6 goals out of 25 shots in a 6-5 loss to Latvia.

Has a good game against Team Finland led by old Olli Jokinen and mostly Euro leaguers, then allows the Germans to tie the game thrice in a 5-4 win, before a quarterfinal exit vs the Czechs where he allowed four unanswered goals in a game that ended 4-3.

I admit this is too anecdotal for a fair criticism against Thomas, but I had to check his only appearance in an Olympic game as well. When Team USA was up 6-0 with 12 minutes to go against Finland in the 2010 semifinals, Thomas came on to allow Miller a rest. Game ended 6-1.

I really do think there’s something to the idea of the Bruins team defense making Thomas seem a bit better than he actually was, though.

Thomas needed surgery in 2010. Came back and relegated Rask to the bench.
2010-11 TT was as good as any G in the history of hockey.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Thomas needed surgery in 2010. Came back and relegated Rask to the bench.
2010-11 TT was as good as any G in the history of hockey.

I guess I’m just not convinced he would have looked nearly as good in any other situation than that era Bruins.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I guess I’m just not convinced he would have looked nearly as good in any other situation than that era Bruins.

He relegated Rask to the bench. End of story.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Is ~50 games-into-career Tuukka Rask the benchmark for greatness?

Tim Thomas in DPE 2.0 is just Roman Cechmanek in DPE 1.0, the only difference is, there were other goalies in the league when Cechmanek played. They're both clumsy also-rans on the averaging stats blooper reel...

 

[JackSlater]

Peak Ftorek better than Kesler

Early Howe today may have been a US Bergeron type Center.

Don't agree on Ftorek and definitely not for the role that was needed.

Howe probably could have been that yes, but he brings great value as a defencemen. I think he's decently underrated, probably due to some wonky Norris voting. USA could use a few more legitimate Selke types honestly. It'll come.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I knock the WHA as a glorified minor league often enough, but that doesn't mean everyone in it was useless. Ftorek was a good player, he could skate, he hustled, he could handle the puck, he stopped on pucks. Seemed to really focus on being a checker in the NHL, but he probably would have made it in the NHL just fine if the WHA never existed...

A couple of not-that-interesting things about Ftorek...

Ftorek captured a 6th place Selke finish in his only full NHL season. That season, he was a team-worst -18.

What on earth was his role in 1984? He played 31 games and had five points.

"Ok, whatever...he was towards the end...what's your point?"

On H-R, he's given credit for just seven (7!) shots on goal for the season.

Thank dieu there's a good amount of Nordiques games on YT, I'm just throwing this on the pile of "things I'd like to go back and watch"...even if the intent is to watch what didn't happen...

 

[Dingo]

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Tim Thomas slander has gotten out of hand. I thought it was just people joking around but it seems people genuinely believe he sucked.

 

[Dingo]

joking aside, I grant that Thomas is the anti-Price/modern goalie wih the perfect stacker pad movement, torso always erect.

He was very much an 80s reactionary, anticipatory goalie, but so was Hasek. I feel strongly that, given old pads Thomas would have done much better in the old era than any of the the 6'5 robots would.

Now, that doesnt mean that he is better than them, moreso that I am impressed that a 5'10 throwback goalie accomplished what he did in the era he did. It speaks to something, he must have had something. There is no other way, or there would be more like him, i think.

Personally, to my eye, he is extremely quick mentally, and when i watch his head I believe he is reading the play at an outrageously high level.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Tim Thomas didn't suck, but he does fall in the category of systems goalies that have eye-popping stats because of who is in front of them. A better Brian Elliott if you will.

In terms of post-lockout American goalies, Quick is just a clear-cut better goalie. Hellebucyk is too, playoff woes notwithstanding.

If you are making a post-1990 American team, I don't know how you could have a starter other than Jon Quick. He's got sound positioning, longevity, peak performance, and a tremendous playoff resume. He's everything you want, and played well in front of deep defensive teams and kept it up when the Kings were weaker.

 

[MadLuke]

Tim Thomas didn't suck, but he does fall in the category of systems goalies that have eye-popping stats because of who is in front of them. A better Brian Elliott if you will.

He also had the eye-popping flashy style.

Bruins from 2009 to 2012 had .922 save percentage when Thomas was not playing, but also had impressive number 2 in net (Rask-Fernandez), thus why both narrative will continue to always exist at the same time, because it can be Rask was really good, Julien-Chara team was really good at preventing high danger shots or obviously a mix of both.