Simon Edvinsson

[norrisnick]

I think in the instance where we got a good, veteran RHD (like a Trouba or Roy level guy); you could conceivably keep Ed and Mo together, and let Chiarot pair with the RHD as the 2nd pair, that would be a very physical duo together; leaving AlJo on LHD, to pair with Petry/Holl in limited minutes and use Gus only on PPQB2.

If AlJo ends up being really mature and rising to the challenge, you could move him to pair with the RHD, and keep Chiarot and Petry on the bottom which also wouldn't be bad either?

One can hope. I don't have a lot of it if an opportunity arises to have Chia sneak back up to the top pairing. Ed needs to keep having strong games because that's the first switch that will be made if he struggles.

 

[heyfolks]

Edvinsson and Seider together is a really good, young, promising 1st Pair. Ed gets a real partner, an opportunity to build chemistry but runs the risk of being 'thrown into the fire' with taking crazy usage. That being said, is it better or worse for him or the Wings for him to move to the 2nd pair, see less top matchups and usage, but be asked to shoulder more responsibility of driving the success of that pair?

The issue really is that we don't have the luxury either of a true 1 LHD or a 2nd RHD to split them where we get reliable and complementary defensive pairings at the moment. The biggest gap in our lineup to date is trying to figure out one of those two holes - hence my secret hope that AlJo can take the LHD with Seider and just be dependable and have chemistry, so we can move Ed down to second pair, and have a Holl/Petry as an internal solve to this.

Ideally, we could try to secure an experienced, reliable veteran RHD to pair with Ed on the 2nd pair. One of the reasons not getting a Pesce, Roy, Trouba, etc. was kind of a let down because that would've given us better options for pairs.

May have been another thread, but I brought up the D pairings. The Wings had to lock in Mo and Lucas before going after a top 4 D. The mission accomplished, they next need to clear up cap space. They have begun to do that with the recent trade. Now they need to see if this group can compete well enough for Yzerman to make a trade. I don't suspect he will deal a ton of young talent for a short run, but he will do something to try and bolster the ranks.

As for Ed, he's a stud being thrown into the deep. He has a serious #1 partner who will show him the ropes while playing 20+ against the best forwards in the NHL. If he then moves to the 2nd pairing anchor, he'll be that much better prepared. I am on repeat here, but he must retrieve the puck with more urgency, skate more, reach less and stop playing with the puck for a fancy pass. His speed of execution needs to pick up. (The high end wingers are now pressuring him every chance they get. )

 

[Oddbob]

I think in the instance where we got a good, veteran RHD (like a Trouba or Roy level guy); you could conceivably keep Ed and Mo together, and let Chiarot pair with the RHD as the 2nd pair, that would be a very physical duo together; leaving AlJo on LHD, to pair with Petry/Holl in limited minutes and use Gus only on PPQB2.

If AlJo ends up being really mature and rising to the challenge, you could move him to pair with the RHD, and keep Chiarot and Petry on the bottom which also wouldn't be bad either?

For us to be really better, Chia needs to be no higher than 3rd pair. Keeping him top 4 means our D still sucks.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Same as it ever was. Not that there is a choice.

From Iyer.

Nobody asks more of their top pair than Derek Lalonde

With the first month of the season in the books, it’s time to start unpacking some of the early observations.

prashanthiyer.substack.com

 

[jkutswings]

It is, although when it comes to FA (Pesce, Roy), it's hard to hold a team responsible or not, because Pesce and Roy could have just flat out not wanted to come here and there's not a ton we could've done about that - which we don't know. Or if they did, they wanted 8x8 or some insanity. What I do hold the front office accountable for was not having .. something in place to fill that RHD spot outside of "Lets just go with Jeff, Gus, and Holl".

And maybe that WAS the Trouba push? Maybe that was their solve to try to get that figured out. They moved on Walman to make space, had a deal to send Husso, had the retention, and Trouba blows it up at the 11th hour and everything looked kind of incomplete for both teams? Who knows...hard to play the hypotheticals. What I do know, if we could get a stay-at-home vet to man that spot, I think a lot of our D kind snaps into place in a really nice way.

I think Trouba was a terrible target for the player they needed. But I can't specifically criticize Yzerman for having a very different evaluation of Trouba.

What I CAN criticize him for is being under prepared. 1) You need to vet that trade eight ways from Sunday before you commit to bringing in a player making over $8M. 2) You need to have one or more backup plans if/when things fall apart. Hell, try to swing a trade or look for an offer sheet if there's a good player out there, instead of going straight from "here's who I want" to resorting to the bargain bin of bad defensemen.

I have a certain level of concern about Yzerman thinking that Trouba was what this blue line needed. But I have a much bigger level of concern that he wasn't willing to do more than settle for Gustafsson as a Plan B.

 

[Winger98]

I think Trouba was a terrible target for the player they needed. But I can't specifically criticize Yzerman for having a very different evaluation of Trouba.

What I CAN criticize him for is being under prepared. 1) You need to vet that trade eight ways from Sunday before you commit to bringing in a player making over $8M. 2) You need to have one or more backup plans if/when things fall apart. Hell, try to swing a trade or look for an offer sheet if there's a good player out there, instead of going straight from "here's who I want" to resorting to the bargain bin of bad defensemen.

I have a certain level of concern about Yzerman thinking that Trouba was what this blue line needed. But I have a much bigger level of concern that he wasn't willing to do more than settle for Gustafsson as a Plan B.

He'd have to be given permission to talk to Trouba to vet it any more than they did, and maybe permission to see the actual contract. Yzerman wanted Trouba, NYR wanted to deal Trouba. The one who screwed up was Drury who either didn't realize Trouba could still kill a deal or thought he could smooth it over after the fact.

And there might not have been a plan B because there was no one else available who fit what Yzerman wanted. For everyone clamoring for Roy or Pesce it looks Yzerman wasn't looking to take on the cap/term they were looking for, they weren't interested in coming here, or both.

maybe Yzerman will surprise me and go hard after Andersson out of calgary, or we'll grab Ekblad next summer. But I'd bet we revisit that St. Louis well and, if they fall out of the playoff picture, we make a go at Justin Faulk.

 

[jkutswings]

maybe Yzerman will surprise me and go hard after Andersson out of calgary, or we'll grab Ekblad next summer. But I'd bet we revisit that St. Louis well and, if they fall out of the playoff picture, we make a go at Justin Faulk.

Then we'll keep seeing garbage defense from signing garbage players. Let me put this another way:

I think that it's not realistic for Yzerman to continue acting as if either 1) he will eventually have a good NHL defense made up entirely of his own draft picks, or 2) that there's no long term benefit to acquiring a very good, proven NHL defenseman NOW.

Because:
* It's incredibly long odds for that many prospects to pan out that well.
* It's a foolish plan to think they'll pan out that well...AND all fit together perfectly on the roster...AND do so within the window needed for championship contention.
* Getting somebody else to help slot players more appropriately will lead to better results, boost the confidence of the younger players, and maybe even help unlock more from some of the kids as they adjust to and succeed in the NHL.

To be clear, I'm not at all expecting to find a silver bullet in free agency. That path is much more likely to continue to yield mediocre to substandard guys. And it would likely be very pricey to trade for a good defenseman in his mid to late twenties. But it feels like the team is stuck in this notion that if Detroit just waits long enough, they'll eventually have Larkin and a bunch of kids and it'll be enough to win a Cup...and I think that's a pretty naive plan.

Cup winning rosters are usually a good mix of guys at different ages and acquired through different means. And while it's fine to save certain paths for once the core is up and running (a final big splash or two in free agency, for example), it feels like Yzerman has tunnel vision on a single approach and isn't even LOOKING at most of the other ways he could improve the roster.

EDIT: Doing a quick search of age, style, contract, and team situation, here's a list of guys I'd certainly want to look into, from smallest to biggest splash:
* Kevin Bahl, 24, CGY, pending RFA
* Alexander Romanov, 24, NYI, pending RFA
* Ivan Provorov, 27, CBJ, pending UFA
* Marcus Pettersson, 28, PIT, pending UFA
* Nick Hague, 25, VGK, pending RFA
* Noah Dobson, 24, NYI, pending RFA

Yes, the Islanders would be fools to do anything other than lock up Dobson long term. But I'd happily do whatever I could to convince them to be foolish. The point is, there's a wide spectrum beyond the Jeff Petrys and Erik Gustafssons of the world to pursue on the blueline while the kids mature.