Sidney Crosby would have just as many art ross trophies as mcdavid if not for injuries?

[Luongoisthegoat]

he might not have kept the pace he was on during those shortened seasons but he would for most likely have won those trophies…. Anyone pretending otherWise is delusional. In terms of 100 point seasons he would have just as many if not for injuries. Mcdavid is an amazing player and one of the best of all time but the disrespect Crosby gets at times is insane…. I’d say mcdavid at his peak was a bit better offensively but it’s not that far off.

 

[Nathaniel]

100% he would have at least 5 ross right now would have 10 100 point seasons

 

[RevengeOfTheDrai]

2011 & 2013 are guaranteed. 2012 is a maybe. I’d go with 4 Art Rosses one behind McDavid.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Who cares?

What would Orr have done with a full career? What would Lemieux have done with better health? What would Lindros and Forsberg have accomplished without injuries? What if Gretzky didn't get destroyed by Suter? You can go on and on.

Also, as much as McDavid has seemed underwhelming for him, the guy is tied for second in PPG this very season. If not for the injuries and suspension, he would be battling it out with Kuch for another Art Ross.

For that matter, McDavid was close enough in points per game to Draisaitl in 2020 that he might have beaten him if he had played as many games. A difference of 0.03 PPG is not significant. It would have come down to variance whether he would have beaten him or not if both had played 71 games

.

It's all speculation.

 

[Nathaniel]

2011 & 2013 are guaranteed. 2012 is a maybe. I’d go with 4 Art Rosses one behind McDavid.

Ill leave out 2015 although he was 1st in ppg. 77 gp is more than enough to say he lost with no excuses. But 2008 he was tied for the lead after 46 gp. 6 points up on ovechkin before going down with his ankle one. Id say 4 100% lock n loaded with 4 harts as well. 4 harts 4 art ross 4 lindsays 2 richards and 2 smythes are what he 100% has with no injuries

 

[ImporterExporter]

As Glitch said, many greats have missed significant time.

With that being said, I wouldn't go so far to say "who cares". Context does matter, and let's get real, Sid had some really freak injuries happen and much of his lost time came at the absolute prime of his career, between ages 20-25.

Steckel ruined Sid's greatest peak year and certainly cost him a Hart, Ross, Rocket, etc in 2010-11. When you adjust for scoring levels, I think that would have ended up being the 2nd best offensive season post lockout in 05-06, even if he slowed just slightly from the pace he was on (64 goals, 132 points) through 41 games.

Then in 2012-13 he was absolutely destroying the field and takes a Brooks Orpik slap shot to the face with about a month and change left in the season. It literally took the field the rest of the year to catch and pass him (barely) in the scoring race. Again, that cost him a Hart and Ross surely.

Those are the 2 seasons that really stand out as "big" losses when it comes to awards/major bullet points.

While I would certainly put Mario at the top of the "what if" category (probably wouldn't have broke any of the big Gretzky records, but would have at least gotten relatively close), Orr is right there as well. The crazy thing is, most hockey historians put both of them in the top 4 all time, regardless, which speaks to their legacies. And at the end of the day, a lot of folks have Sid 5th best, so again, despite all the missed time, his ability to rebound from some serious medical issues, and keep playing at a very high level for 2 decades just cements his own reputation.

 

[ijuka]

Well, did injury prevent him from beating Jamie Benn?

 

[Garbageyuk]

Lol, no.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Well, did injury prevent him from beating Jamie Benn?

Pretty sure the law prevents him from beating Jamie Benn, though I’m not sure it should.

And I’m in the camp of “it’s fun to speculate”. What if that jabroni Steckel didn’t pretend not to have peripheral vision? Seriously, dude doesn’t get enough shit for an accidentally on purpose cheap shot on the level of Cooke.

 

[GlitchMarner]

As Glitch said, many greats have missed significant time.

With that being said, I wouldn't go so far to say "who cares". Context does matter, and let's get real, Sid had some really freak injuries happen and much of his lost time came at the absolute prime of his career, between ages 20-25.

I mean from the perspective of evaluating careers and ranking players. We know he was better than his trophy count.

A lot of guys could have accomplished more if not for injuries and/or circumstances. And if we're comparing Crosby to McDavid specifically, we have to consider missed time for both parties.

It's possible McDavid would have six or seven Art Rosses after this season if not for missed games in 2020 and this season.

 

[RevengeOfTheDrai]

Ill leave out 2015 although he was 1st in ppg. 77 gp is more than enough to say he lost with no excuses. But 2008 he was tied for the lead after 46 gp. 6 points up on ovechkin before going down with his ankle one. Id say 4 100% lock n loaded with 4 harts as well. 4 harts 4 art ross 4 lindsays 2 richards and 2 smythes are what he 100% has with no injuries

He probably doesn’t win the Hart in 2008 Considering Ovi had 65 goals and had one of the largest separations in points from his teammates this century. That said, he might have more memorable playoff runs without the injuries in 2011-2013.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Injures hindered Malkin's career way more than Crosby's...

 

[Nathaniel]

He’d probably doesn’t win the Hart in 2008 Considering Ovi had 65 goals and had one of the largest separations in points from his teammates this century. That said, he might have more memorable playoff runs without the injuries in 2011-2013.

The hart is no in 2008 with ov 65 goals. Yeah crosby wasent in form in the 11 13 playoffs due to injury

 

[mr figgles]

Possibly, but if McDavid wasn't nagged by injuries these last two seasons, he could have two more too.

 

[Bank Shot]

And McDavid would have just as many Cups as Crosby if the Oilers had better management.

How many Olympic gold medals are we giving to McDavid for the tournaments that didn't happen?

Lets award him a couple of more Conn Symthes too as long as we are giving out credit for something a guy didn't do.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Crosby led the league in PPG 6 times, and was a fraction off the lead in 08 as well and his dropped after returning from injury too soon. Not a stretch to say that he could easily have 7 Art Rosses with a little better luck

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I mean from the perspective of evaluating careers and ranking players. We know he was better than his trophy count.

A lot of guys could have accomplished more if not for injuries and/or circumstances. And if we're comparing Crosby to McDavid specifically, we have to consider missed time for both parties.

It's possible McDavid would have six or seven Art Rosses after this season if not for missed games in 2020 and this season.

McDavid is like 4th in PPG this year lol

 

[RevengeOfTheDrai]

McDavid is like 4th in PPG this year lol

Tied for second.

Crosby led the league in PPG 6 times, and was a fraction off the lead in 08 as well and his dropped after returning from injury too soon. Not a stretch to say that he could easily have 7 Art Rosses with a little better luck

77+ games should be enough to get it done. His incremental 0.1 or Something Lead over Seguin(who got injured) is just not convincing. If you make Crosby healthy in 2012 you have to do the same for Malkin, who now posts 120 points. We’ve seen Malkin outscore Crosby fully healthy before so it’s not a shock to say he’d still get the Ross in 2012. McDavid in 2020 was a close second in PPG, and you could use the same argument that he’d have kept improving without the injury as the year went on and gone first. Easily four Art Rosses with better luck, seven is a perfect scenario that we could create for other players too.

 

[Regal]

If everything went right in a perfect career, Crosby could have had 7 or 8, but the same holds true for McDavid, and he’s not done yet. You can’t play the What if game for one and not the other. Crosby has been a little more unlucky with injuries, McDavid more unlucky with team building. Ultimately McDavid has shown a bit more from an individual standpoint regardless.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Tied for second.



77+ games should be enough to get it done. His incremental 0.1 or Something Lead over Seguin(who got injured) is just not convincing. If you make Crosby healthy in 2012 you have to do the same for Malkin, who now posts 120 points. We’ve seen Malkin outscore Crosby fully healthy before so it’s not a shock to say he’d still get the Ross in 2012. McDavid in 2020 was a close second in PPG, and you could use the same argument that he’d have kept improving without the injury as the year went on and gone first. Easily four Art Rosses with better luck, seven is a perfect scenario that we could create for other players too.

Malkin had a higher ppg than Crosby once in their first 11 seasons together, and that one was a .03 difference more than made up by Malkin collecting more points while they played on the same line for the first month or two of the season. The scenario you posit where Crosby is outscored by Malkin is closer to wishful thinking than anything.

And maybe McDavid jumped a few spots after beating up on the Sharks, he was 4th as of a few days ago

 

[crowfish]

McDavid is like 4th in PPG this year lol

The only player this season with a higher pts/game than McDavid this is Kucherov at 1.55 vs 1.49, and that is with him having 8 more empty net points and McDavid being injured a couple times.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The only player this season with a higher pts/game than McDavid this is Kucherov at 1.55 vs 1.49, and that is with him having 8 more empty net points and McDavid being injured a couple times.

McDavid is 3rd, he's also behind Draisaitl

 

[crowfish]

McDavid is 3rd, he's also behind Draisaitl

Fractionally speaking, you are correct. 1.4929 vs 1.4923. That would make the difference of 0 points over 82 games. I would categorize that as the same, not "behind." But if we are being technical, I will point out that McDavid has a game played with 37 seconds of ice time this year.

With his true games played of 64, his pts/game would be 1.51

 

[Randyne]

W/o missing games Ovechkin would have 4 Rosses
2008
2009
2010
2013 - readjusting from KHL took 10 games with .5 PPG, last 20 games his PPG was 1.65, so without lockout he would win 100%

W/o missing games Ovechkin would have #2 hardware All-time with 1000+ goals
4 Ross
11 Rockets (+2010;+2025)
5 Harts (+2010;+2025)
4 TL (+2013)
Smythe
Calder
Total 26 awards (WG has 31 with Rockets)

 

[RevengeOfTheDrai]

Malkin had a higher ppg than Crosby once in their first 11 seasons together, and that one was a .03 difference more than made up by Malkin collecting more points while they played on the same line for the first month or two of the season. The scenario you posit where Crosby is outscored by Malkin is closer to wishful thinking than anything.

And maybe McDavid jumped a few spots after beating up on the Sharks, he was 4th as of a few days ago

Malkin was clearly better in '09 and '12. Had the Highest Vs5 score anyone put up between Jagr 99 and McDavid 2021. 64 points in his last 41 if you want to compare to Crosby's 41 game sample the year prior. The problem I have with Crosby out scoring Malkin is that Crosby had an unusually high number of secondaries in this period (13 of his 29 assists). That’s just not sustainable. Crosby played cautiously on the perimeter that season, most likely to avoid possible head injuries, so his goal scoring suffered and would have continued to be subpar the whole season. Malkin had 35 pts while Crosby had 37 pts in the span before the injury. Is that really enough to say Malkin had no chance keep up with Sid?.