Should Poile be next?

[GeauxPreds]

Obviously. I'm not saying I expect or that management should expect our first round pick to pan out so far, but it's a question of does Poile take a gamble and attempt to fix the teams needs or will he play it safe and pick the best predators mold player available at that point. Obviously youth takes time to develop, I just want to see if poile actually changes his ways or not and the next few months will be telling.

 

[Armourboy]

Oh he should be gone, and lets face it I think he knows its coming very soon. Just like Trotz, he has been here a long time. In the world of sports tenures like this just don't happen anymore, so statistics show that for every year that goes by the odds either of them were here kept getting smaller and smaller.

People hate change, especially when good men are involved, but its time. One can't GM or coach forever, it has to happen eventually.

 

[PredsV82]

i think its pretty clear that at least right now the owners measuring stick is making the playoffs.

they called this shot, and Im sure if we miss the playoffs again next year he's gone.

 

[sparkle twin]

I don't know who is in charge of hiring/firing the GM. Is it the owners or is it Cogan or Henry? If it's the owners then honestly I don't expect Poile to go anywhere for at least 3 years. He turned in his 3 year plan to ownership and if they are on board with it I don't see him leaving before that plan is complete. Unless his plan includes stepping aside after 1 or 2 years for someone to assume his role (which would likely include someone from within such as Fenton) or it is clear that the team is not showing any signs of improvement towards a championship forcing the owners to make the GM change, I don't see that happening. Plus, the owners said themselves (well, Cigarran) that they don't know a lot about hockey operations, but they know that Poile is one of the most respected GM's so they are basically letting him make the decisions.


But obviously if we don't get the right coach/players or don't show improvement/hope on the horizon then of course Poile will be next.

 

[PredsV82]

I don't know who is in charge of hiring/firing the GM. Is it the owners or is it Cogan or Henry? If it's the owners then honestly I don't expect Poile to go anywhere for at least 3 years. He turned in his 3 year plan to ownership and if they are on board with it I don't see him leaving before that plan is complete. Unless his plan includes stepping aside after 1 or 2 years for someone to assume his role (which would likely include someone from within such as Fenton) or it is clear that the team is not showing any signs of improvement towards a championship forcing the owners to make the GM change, I don't see that happening. Plus, the owners said themselves (well, Cigarran) that they don't know a lot about hockey operations, but they know that Poile is one of the most respected GM's so they are basically letting him make the decisions.


But obviously if we don't get the right coach/players or don't show improvement/hope on the horizon then of course Poile will be next.

as stated above, I don't think they will be on board with Poiles plan if it doesn't result in making the playoffs next season.

 

[Armourboy]

as stated above, I don't think they will be on board with Poiles plan if it doesn't result in making the playoffs next season.

Agreed.

They may not know how to run a hockey team, but they know money, and no playoffs = less fans and less money, and that they do understand.

 

[luckofirish8]

if MDZ is simply released, as much as I support him, I will be calling for Poiles head too. That would be a firing offense to lose Klein for absolutely nothing.

It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[PFL615]

i think its pretty clear that at least right now the owners measuring stick is making the playoffs.

they called this shot, and Im sure if we miss the playoffs again next year he's gone.

If you watch the Poile interview yesterday he said it was his decision and when he made his mind up he told Fenton who passed it along to the owners.

 

[Bad Karma]

Poile should have been first, this shouldn't be a debate. Blunder after blunder since the RFA fax machine screw up, Weber's arbitration, Weber's contract, free agency, repetitive drafts, etc. 30 years of not even sniffing a conference final. The list is long on Poile.

Trotz could have been fired after the playoff series to PHX and maybe after 2007 when this team was one of the league's best and failed in 5 to San Jose. Does Trotz have his faults in the way he wants his team, sure it's boring and scoring is tertiary, but it doesn't excuse not bringing in offensive talent.

 

[AEM6729]

True enough. One more crappy season and Poile will be out. Then some real change will happen.

I am just not getting all the Trotz love. Yes, he is an excellent coach for the regular season. Was not a playoff coach. How long was he supposed to coach here? Forever? Another mediocre season just missing the playoffs? What would it have taken for him to be let go in your minds?

I made a separate Poile thread just for this reason…because I think Poile should be next and was wondering how others felt about it. For me, there's a lot of love for Trotz as a person and even as a coach for awhile, but I'm cool with him getting fired. I was hoping to separate the Trotz talk and the Poile talk.

Just because people think Poile should go doesn't mean they also think Trotz should've stayed. I think most people feel that they were equally responsible for the past few years and should face equal consequences.


PS What is Poile's contract situation? Trotz probably would've been fired anyway but it certainly helped that his contract was up, so the owners won't have to pay two coaches at the same time. I wonder if Poile's contract situation has played a part in the decision to let Trotz go first? Plus the owners not being hockey ops people, it's probably a little scary for them to think about selecting a new GM. They can pretty much just trust Poile as far as selecting a new coach goes.

 

[NSH615]

I made a separate Poile thread just for this reason…because I think Poile should be next and was wondering how others felt about it. For me, there's a lot of love for Trotz as a person and even as a coach for awhile, but I'm cool with him getting fired. I was hoping to separate the Trotz talk and the Poile talk.

Just because people think Poile should go doesn't mean they also think Trotz should've stayed. I think most people feel that they were equally responsible for the past few years and should face equal consequences.


PS What is Poile's contract situation? Trotz probably would've been fired anyway but it certainly helped that his contract was up, so the owners won't have to pay two coaches at the same time. I wonder if Poile's contract situation has played a part in the decision to let Trotz go first? Plus the owners not being hockey ops people, it's probably a little scary for them to think about selecting a new GM. They can pretty much just trust Poile as far as selecting a new coach goes.

I believe he has either 1 or 2 years left on it.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I believe he has either 1 or 2 years left on it.

Through '14-'15. I think it likely that he retires or takes a new position with the organization at the end of it.

 

[NSH615]

Through '14-'15. I think it likely that he retires or takes a new position with the organization at the end of it.

which is probably the reason why he still has a job.

 

[deanwormer]

which is probably the reason why he still has a job.

and if you follow that logic, then Plaster's tirade on Fenton - which he started a little of a week or so ago - is really on point, because if all we're going to do is move DP into another spot and promote Fenton, then where is the accountability for the lack of bringing in real offensive talent - whether drafted or free agent - that we've seen over the majority of the time?

One top 3 pick - Rads (giving the benefit of the doubt)
One top 3 from trade - Sully
Three via FA - PK, Arnie, and JP (although I realize some might suggest I'm being a bit generous there)
Might also argue Hartnell, after we moved him.

Now, regardless if that's "enough" good talent over the years, the common thread (except Harts) is? All acquired after we got past those initial "build" years and before the Liarpold blow-up. Nothing, nada, except Mr. Underwood, in the way of O talent since. (and while Mrs. Underwood is clearly top 3 talent, Mr. Underwood is a workmanlike 2nd liner at best)

Trotz should go, Trotz is a scape-goat, whatever - doesn't matter - no accountability for the guys acquiring the talent, and no reason to believe it's gonna' get better, since Fenton's job is Milw and the draft, right?

 

[Byrddog]

This is what we are doing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxig2AF1-gw

 

[gopreds19]

You aren't going to be able to judge a draft of 17/18 year olds in one year.

Yeah, but we can judge him on Finley, Pickard, Ellis, Blum, Watson, and wasting 1st round picks on Witt and Gaustad. We can also judge him on the 9 second round picks between 1998 up to 2003 that never amounted to jack except for a "young star" experience by Adam Hall that was pretty much his career highlight.

 

[PFL615]

and if you follow that logic, then Plaster's tirade on Fenton - which he started a little of a week or so ago - is really on point, because if all we're going to do is move DP into another spot and promote Fenton, then where is the accountability for the lack of bringing in real offensive talent - whether drafted or free agent - that we've seen over the majority of the time?

One top 3 pick - Rads (giving the benefit of the doubt)
One top 3 from trade - Sully
Three via FA - PK, Arnie, and JP (although I realize some might suggest I'm being a bit generous there)
Might also argue Hartnell, after we moved him.

Now, regardless if that's "enough" good talent over the years, the common thread (except Harts) is? All acquired after we got past those initial "build" years and before the Liarpold blow-up. Nothing, nada, except Mr. Underwood, in the way of O talent since. (and while Mrs. Underwood is clearly top 3 talent, Mr. Underwood is a workmanlike 2nd liner at best)

Trotz should go, Trotz is a scape-goat, whatever - doesn't matter - no accountability for the guys acquiring the talent, and no reason to believe it's gonna' get better, since Fenton's job is Milw and the draft, right?

No mistake about Mrs. Underwood is #1 (crosby like) top 3 could be disrespectful . .

 

[Enoch]

I'm sorry but George Plaster knows nothing about hockey. He is a good man and a Nashville promoter. He is a baseball / braves fan, not a hockey fan. He doesn't know the game or it's innerworkings. His opinions mean zilch when it comes to the Nashville Predators. He can tirade all he wants about Paul Fenton, but he doesn't know anything about the man, the last 3 drafts, or the dynamics of our scouting system/GM/Assistant Gm outside what is told to him prior to his radio show.

I do think there is a huge chance that promoting Paul Fenton would be perpetuating the same attituede, but it is unknown. Ray Shero is the exact opposite of David Poile and was a similar understudy.

 

[glenngineer]

Two points I'd like to make.

1. From my understanding, Fenton and Poile have not seen eye to eye on who has been drafted. That could mean a lot of things but Poile as we all know likes to play it safer more often than not when it comes to the draft. If it means Fenton may strike out a little more but land some big players in the process, is that worth the risk? Depends on how many big fish he can land and then supplement via free agency and trades. While Shero is a Poile disciple and has a different approach, has Shero done that well in the draft over his years in Pittsburgh? I don't know their roster well enough to know but he has certainly been proactive via trades and free agency. I think you have to be good in all three areas to thrive as a GM.

2. People say Poile didn't give Trotz anything to work with. Maybe there's some truth to it but there's the flip side of the coin, maybe he did and Trotz had to run those players in his system according to the way he liked and didn't focus on the strengths of the players he was given. Much was always said about Legwand. Who knows if he would've been better, worse or the same player playing in a different system. Same could be said for Wilson now. Personally, I know everyone is down on Wilson for the most part but I see the potential there and I don't know why it hasn't panned out for him but maybe a new coach, full time center duties and a fresh start here is what he needs. We'll see if it was Wilson or Trotz or a poor combination of player and coach.

I think Poile realizes his job is on the line now and he is going to get out of his comfort zone in moving forward. I think that's a good thing because we all enjoy our comfort zone. I know I do. Maybe having to stretch himself and taking all his years of experience to do so will make him a better GM moving forward. I don't think it will as he's done this for over 30 years but I think he's brought decent pieces here but for whatever reason they didn't work or maybe they weren't tried til it was too late. I think Cullen moving to wing with Fisher and Hornqvist is one of those things that makes me scratch my head and go, why were they not together sooner. Once again, easy to sit back now and comment about it but they brought Cullen in for some reason but too bad that line didn't happen sooner.

Poile has an interesting choice to make and he can either go home grown/what he knows or he can go out of his comfort zone and try someone he has no attachment or affiliation with. I think he needs to find a guy that can nurture the young guys and play to their strengths to be perfectly honest. I also think he needs to find a coach that can light a fire under these guys, especially Weber, to get them to be a tougher team. While I don't want to see Weber in the box like he was the other night against the Mild because of Cooke, I also want to see that intensity and ferocity that he showed as well. Tame it down a hair and you've got a monster of a defenseman that will take this team places.

 

[NSH615]

2. People say Poile didn't give Trotz anything to work with. Maybe there's some truth to it but there's the flip side of the coin, maybe he did and Trotz had to run those players in his system according to the way he liked and didn't focus on the strengths of the players he was given. Much was always said about Legwand. Who knows if he would've been better, worse or the same player playing in a different system. Same could be said for Wilson now. Personally, I know everyone is down on Wilson for the most part but I see the potential there and I don't know why it hasn't panned out for him but maybe a new coach, full time center duties and a fresh start here is what he needs. We'll see if it was Wilson or Trotz or a poor combination of player and coach.

Wilson's issues is he tries to be to flashy too often. That may work on a team like Chicago where he has someone to pass to, but not here with this roster and who he has been on a line with. He does have some puck handling skills, which have really gotten better since his move to center.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Personally, I'm shocked that they're just now getting Wilson back at center. What took so long? Wasn't he drafted a center?

 

[Enoch]

Personally, I'm shocked that they're just now getting Wilson back at center. What took so long? Wasn't he drafted a center?

It is kind of mind boggling to be honest. I think it was mostly due to the depth we had at center, even if none of the depth was elite. Legwand/Fisher/Gaustad/Spaling, etc. all. Trotz just simply put Wilson at wing and let it ride.

 

[PredsV82]

It is kind of mind boggling to be honest. I think it was mostly due to the depth we had at center, even if none of the depth was elite. Legwand/Fisher/Gaustad/Spaling, etc. all. Trotz just simply put Wilson at wing and let it ride.

don't centers have more defensive responsibilities?

if so I suspect that played a part as well

 

[Armourboy]

don't centers have more defensive responsibilities?

if so I suspect that played a part as well

Possible. Its Trotz, we've been questioning some of his choices for a very long time. Not so sure that's the real reason why he is gone, really wonder if the way some of the guys have been used lately hasn't even had Poile throwing things.

 

[deanwormer]

As to the Wilson question. Let's suppose it was Trotz, all by himself, made that decision. It's either gonna' be because of the depth we've had over past years at C, or the defensive responsibility.

Last offseason, you're GMDP and the best O player you sign skates what position? Right, Cullen signed to be your #1C, even though we still have Fish/Leggy/Goose, who we've been skating at C for years. Rightly or wrongly, you know that Trotz is still gonna' skate them, not CWilson, at center.

Now, if you're Poile, don't you either have a conversation with Trotz and tell him you'd like Wilson skating in the middle for the longterm good of the team, or else not hand him a guy that you say is gonna' be your #1C?

That's an example of where I disagree with some of the "trotz skated guys outta' position" kinda' talk. While he's the coach and filling out the lines nightly the GM is acquiring the assets and has much more influence over the development in the minors, including what position they're skating.

I'm quite sure Stalberg's failure had something to do with Trotz going, and if the decision wasn't final before he got here, the way MDZ was handled and integrated did too. Clearly, over the years, Poile has acquired a few guys that didn't work out well in Trotz's eyes, and Poile hasn't been too happy (apology to Vishnovski, as an example). BUT - if you have a prize pick who you traded up to get, and it's been several years and the coach isn't using him in the way you find appropriate, why would you hand that coach more ways to get around using the guy the way you see he should? You sign a wing, don't ya', rather than a C, because it's your job to assemble the right talent.