TMLeafer
Rest in Peace Johnny Bower
For some reason I recall that being a discussion a few years ago? Maybe I'm thinking of their partnership with Mannheim? I love the idea.
Should Liljegren and Sandin start in the SHL?
- Thread starter TheGoldenJet
- Start date
And you know this is false how? If you know how to read swedish you can read about the SHLs stance on short term loans here: Så tänker SHL gällande kortidslån av NHL-spelare - Hockeysverige
TheGoldenJet
Registered User
It certainly looks like the projected Feb 5th date for the Marlies will be pushed back again, to no one’s surprise. Meanwhile, the SHL season ends in less than 8 weeks.
Can we talk about how bad of a decision it was to keep Liljegren and Sandin from playing a competitive hockey game (in any European league) for 11 months now?
Especially since both were in Europe for most of this time. Was it really worth keeping them out of action so that they could participate in the “opportunity” that was the Leafs abbreviated 11 day camp?
Can we talk about how bad of a decision it was to keep Liljegren and Sandin from playing a competitive hockey game (in any European league) for 11 months now?
Especially since both were in Europe for most of this time. Was it really worth keeping them out of action so that they could participate in the “opportunity” that was the Leafs abbreviated 11 day camp?
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Agree with the missed opportunity for Liljegren and Sandin to be in the SHL. Those guys need reps more than anything else. Those guys are 2017 and 2018 draft picks and ideally they are on a Rasmus Andersson type development path if not timetable. Andersson was drafted in 2015. Last two games we saw him, he’s really establishing himself as a top pairing guy alongside Giordano. Our guys don’t seem to be getting any looks with the big club and have nowhere to develop.
Subway Schenn
Registered User
Yeah, this sucks. Get the logjam on the big club but seems like a wasted development year....
Will practice alone move the dial?
Will practice alone move the dial?
Super Mega
Registered User
- Jun 29, 2013
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Rasmus Andersson could play a big boy game pretty early, love that player. I agree though, with the AHL being a question mark the SHL made a ton of sense for both of them especially due to familiarity. Development across the sport has taken a hit during the pandemic for sure.
It was a crapshoot decision with COVID ... hindsight is always 20/20 ... Dubie guessed wrong but that's life man most of us do same sh*t too ... what happens if 2 of our defenders got hurt in camp???? ... what happens if 3 of defense gets cOVID early in season?????? ... too many variables here and it is like i say to my wife "no point worrying about spilt milk"
TheGoldenJet
Registered User
If they really wanted them back for camp, they still could have sent them to the NLA (like the Sens did with Brannstrom), Liiga (Flames for Valimaki, Bruins with Vaakanainen), or Alsvenskan (Oilers with Bouchard), and had them fly back in December after 3 months of hockey. It was a bad decision at the time, and looks worse now.
Mickey Marner
Registered User
Losing a year of development is a big blow, should've been much more proactive getting our prospects minutes in Europe.
Critical13
Fear is the mind-killer.
I haven't seen any cases where a young player was in the pressbox and developed well from just practices.
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
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SHL is not taking guys who are not there for the full year. So that was never an option.
In terms of the other leagues, we have to weigh a few things:
1) Does getting into games exceed skill training, especially games which are entirely different than the types they will be playing in North America?
2) Is missing out on 20 games of playing in the Liiga really worth fretting over? How much are they losing? How much are they gaining? In terms of losing, our entire team only really played 5 NHL playoff games in the same period of time Liljegren and Sandin have not been playing, so how much of a difference would that really make? In terms of gaining, I guess we will see based on point #1.
In terms of the other leagues, we have to weigh a few things:
1) Does getting into games exceed skill training, especially games which are entirely different than the types they will be playing in North America?
2) Is missing out on 20 games of playing in the Liiga really worth fretting over? How much are they losing? How much are they gaining? In terms of losing, our entire team only really played 5 NHL playoff games in the same period of time Liljegren and Sandin have not been playing, so how much of a difference would that really make? In terms of gaining, I guess we will see based on point #1.
Subway Schenn
Registered User
Justin Holl in '18-19, though? And look at him now.
Anyway, definitely not ideal...
Justin Holl did not develop by only playing 11 games in 2018/19. He had a 4 full years of pro experience and 4 years of college. He was already there and then finally was given a chance to earn a full-time spot in the fall of 2019 as well as an opening in top-4 shortly afterwards.
Sandin and Lilly are both having their long-term development severely hampered by this organization. That has been the case going back a year (when the team played them in the NHL with completely inappropriate partners, continued throughout the pause from March to return to play, and has been the case since) and will leave them at a significant disadvantage next fall during camp as well. Essentially it will be a year and a half of lost development at what should have been the most important time for their development. Both knew long ago that they had zero chance of making the team out of camp no matter how well they played.
(and no, despite being one of Babcock's earliest and most vocal critics, I don't believe the claim that is becoming prevalent that Holl didn't play before because Babcock didn't like him. In the fall of 2019 Holl beat out Marincin for the 3RD spot over the first 4 games of the season and then saw his ice time increase steadily and dramatically over the next 20 games and was partnered with Muzzin before Babs left. Previously Holl had been blocked by roster players and also by over-seas free agent D signings who must play or the team risks losing that pipeline. It was no surprise that out of the last 5 seasons the only season in which the team did not have an over-seas free agent D signing gifted a spot, that there was real competition for the 3rd pairing for once and the team found that they had a much better D already in the organization then any of their 5 over-seas free agent D signings have turned out to be - nor has this culture of extreme paranoia about playing inexperienced D, and refusal to make room for them, or give them real opportunities when they do actually get to play, all of which leads to poor development, or the obsession over finding and guaranteeing spots to over-seas free agent D who never turn out to be better than replacement level D changed after a GM change or coaching change).
- Dec 12, 2017
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ON Gov has not given permission. And I would imagine that the chances they do at any point this season is extremely slim.
Wish we'd sent them both to the SHL. We've got 7 NHL dmen ahead of them (Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, Holl, Dermott, Bogo, Lehtonen), so it'd take 2 injuries to free up a spot for Sandin, 3 injuries to free up a spot for Lily. Plus we've got Rosen and Marincin, who are serviceable 8/9 guys. Would much rather see Sandin/Liljegren get a full SHL season than a handful of NHL games.
If one of these guys was the 7D, I'd keep them around, but in the 8/9 slots they just aren't likely to get many games. I'm guessing Dubas figured they may have progressed enough to push up to the 7 slot, but it turned out, not yet.
If one of these guys was the 7D, I'd keep them around, but in the 8/9 slots they just aren't likely to get many games. I'm guessing Dubas figured they may have progressed enough to push up to the 7 slot, but it turned out, not yet.
Dubas, like the players, and almost the entire fanbase, knew that there was zero chance either of them could have made the #7 slot because all 7 spots were already guaranteed - by Dubas. It wouldn't have mattered if they were much better than someone in the top 7 - because they were and are both better than Lehtonen.
- Dec 12, 2017
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i wonder if they could play on the road to begin with. If there’s a league, of course
That has been something I have been wondering.
Now, there will be a league. The American divisions are already playing exhibition games. Because CGY just brought their AHL team up to CGY (because they couldn't get permission to play in their area of California) there will be 3 AHL teams outside of Ontario, and I assume that they will be playing exhibition games shortly, and if Ontario delays the start further I assume they would look at starting the season between those 3 teams.
But as for road games. Maybe, but based on the current rules about non-essential travel, I don' think that the ON Gov would be happy about the team traveling and returning for practice/days off etc. But maybe something can be worked out.
In terms of Sandin and Lilly. They dominated the AHL last year. Between taxi squads, and the number of players who are playing in Europe instead, this current AHL is going to be a significant step down from where it normally is in terms of quality of competition etc. I am not saying that it is going to be a complete waste of their time, but it is hardly the development opportunity that many people think it is going to be for Sandin and Liljegren. But for someone like Brazeau, who played in the ECHL last year, it should be great.
(Edit - having posted that there will be a league, The Athletic just ran a story an hour ago about the season for the whole league being in jeopardy right now because of the AHL's new proposed terms for the players).
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