Should fighting be allowed in IIHF hockey games?

[WayTooCold]

Fighting is allowed in the NHL. Why not to allow in IIHF as well? Well you can fight in IIHF but your'e tossed out of the game. heck, even allow women and juniors to drop the mitts.
We would have a few rough if not goons in the Canadian team to protect our high skill players. No more slashing or dirty plays. There would be more fans as well, see how popular mma is atm.

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[Mr. Met]

IIHF is protecting the soft euros

 

[Mathieukferland]

Yes, fighting is an integral part of the game

 

[Prntscrn]

Hockeyallsvenskan (Swedish second tier) wants to implement a bunch of NHL rules for next season, among those allow fighting is one.

 

[JackSlater]

Yes it would make the product better. I'd still expect fighting to be very limited though.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Yes

 

[Statsy]

I’m a definitive no on that. They say it gets rid of the cheap stick fouls but it doesn’t. NHL has more of that bullshit than International. As for the entertainment value, people in the building do tend to like it, but it turns off a lot of the fans you are trying to recruit to the game. People think it’s bush league. In the NHL these days they even jump a guy after he does a clean hit. WTF?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Without a doubt

 

[Strummer53]

In IIHF hockey, what's the point of fighting?
I don't even think it has a place in NA hockey anymore.

 

[ORRFForever]

No.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Yeah sure. I think womens hockey should be full contact too.

 

[Hanji]

U18 and U20? No
Worlds? Why not.
Womens? No

 

[Leafshater67]

I don’t know why it’s not. It’s our game, we invented it and it should be played by our rules

 

[Hanji]

see how popular mma is atm.

I doubt allowing fighting in IIHF events will attract many MMA fans.

Hockey fighting is awful. No talent whatsoever. It's a joke compared to actual combat sports.

 

[Crosby2010]

Yes.
The thing that really put the WJC on the map was the Piestany Punch-Up in 1987. We still talk about it. Allow the fights, it doesn't mean you'll see a bench clearer, but just do what the NHL does and give a 5 minute major. By the way, no one allows fighting. There is a penalty for it even in the NHL. You just don't get banned over it. I am more for the players policing themselves than suits.

 

[lakai17]

Yes.
The thing that really put the WJC on the map was the Piestany Punch-Up in 1987. We still talk about it. Allow the fights, it doesn't mean you'll see a bench clearer, but just do what the NHL does and give a 5 minute major. By the way, no one allows fighting. There is a penalty for it even in the NHL. You just don't get banned over it. I am more for the players policing themselves than suits.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Fighting is allowed in the NHL. Why not to allow in IIHF as well? Well you can fight in IIHF but your'e tossed out of the game. heck, even allow women and juniors to drop the mitts.
We would have a few rough if not goons in the Canadian team to protect our high skill players. No more slashing or dirty plays. There would be more fans as well, see how popular mma is atm.

No.

 

[Eye of Ra]

IIHF is protecting the soft euros

what? Czechs, Germans and Finns are alot tougher then north Americans.

 

[snipes]

IIHF is protecting the soft euros

Don’t need some tough as nails kid from small town Saskatchewan or Alberta beating the doors off some Euro from Malmo?

Fighting is part of the game, staged fights are all but non existent in the game now anyways. The fights that arise organically from something in the heat of the moment should always be part of our sport though.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Don’t need some tough as nails kid from small town Saskatchewan or Alberta beating the doors off some Euro from Malmo?

Fighting is part of the game, staged fights are all but non existent in the game now anyways. The fights that arise organically from something in the heat of the moment should always be part of our sport though.

malmö is a hard city. Not a regular Swedish city. You should have brought up Göteborg instead or something. Mike and David from Alberta wont stand a chance against Ali and Zoran from Malmö.

 

[snipes]

Lol malmö is a hard city. Not a regular Swedish city.

Fine, which one is softer then — Stockholm or Gothenburg? That can replace it.

The IIHF trying to prevent some tough kid from Prince Albert or Leduc beating the doors off a kid from Stockholm? Is that better?

I’m mostly joking as the Swedes have actually collectively shown to be a bit tougher in terms of physicality at the World Juniors and U-18s in recent years. Maybe all the Vikings didn’t leave?

 

[Statsy]

Yeah sure. I think womens hockey should be full contact too.

Is the PWHL still non-contact? Certainly there is much more than in the international game, if not full contact. One of the problems with putting it in international women’s hockey is that there is too much disparity between nations and this would seriously amplify that disparity.

 

[Sanderson]

Fighting is allowed in the NHL. Why not to allow in IIHF as well? Well you can fight in IIHF but your'e tossed out of the game. heck, even allow women and juniors to drop the mitts.
We would have a few rough if not goons in the Canadian team to protect our high skill players. No more slashing or dirty plays. There would be more fans as well, see how popular mma is atm.

That may come as a surprise to you, but an act that gives you a 5 minute penalty is by definition not allowed. Fighting is illegal in all hockey rulebooks. The only difference is how severely the punishment is. And the difference is not nearly as large as you think it is.

Per the IIHF-rulebook, fighting does not automatically come with a game misconduct. Altercations allow for minor penalties for roughing or a standard major penalty without a game misconduct.

The rules also consider three different possibilities:
a) defender / unwilling combatant
Someone who only defends himself and / or throws just a few punches, or in more general terms, shows that he is not interested in prolonging the fight, will get either 2 minutes or 5 minutes, but no game misconduct

b) instigator
Instigates a fight, ot takes revenge for an earlier play in the game. Options are 2+5 or 2+5+game

c) aggressor
someone who continues throwing punches after having won the fight
2+5+game

If b and c both apply, it's 2+2+5+game

So overall, it is perfectly possible for IIHF-refs to hand out just a major penalty to both players involved.


Also, the idea that "goons" protect high skilled player or prevent dirty plays is as absurd as it gets. They are the main reason for dirty plays and have never prevented any of them. If anything, the pests who have been around absolutely loved the idea of the opponent sending goons after them, because it meant that the opponent had less talent on the roster, and was likely to take stupid penalties in a game. Possibly harming their team with playing shorthanded for 5 minutes, a long suspension and the reduction of salary that comes with the games lost don't stop dirty plays, but somehow having to fight is supposed to stop them? Right...
All they need to do is to evade the fight, or refuse to fight back, and they are likely to get a powerplay for their team out of anyone coming after them.

Lots of stickworks happens when refs don't do their job and refuse to call the necessary penalties. Severe dirty plays will never entirely vanish, but they are the most likely when the league doesn't hand out proper suspensions.

 

[WayTooCold]

That may come as a surprise to you, but an act that gives you a 5 minute penalty is by definition not allowed. Fighting is illegal in all hockey rulebooks. The only difference is how severely the punishment is. And the difference is not nearly as large as you think it is.

Per the IIHF-rulebook, fighting does not automatically come with a game misconduct. Altercations allow for minor penalties for roughing or a standard major penalty without a game misconduct.

The rules also consider three different possibilities:
a) defender / unwilling combatant
Someone who only defends himself and / or throws just a few punches, or in more general terms, shows that he is not interested in prolonging the fight, will get either 2 minutes or 5 minutes, but no game misconduct

b) instigator
Instigates a fight, ot takes revenge for an earlier play in the game. Options are 2+5 or 2+5+game

c) aggressor
someone who continues throwing punches after having won the fight
2+5+game

If b and c both apply, it's 2+2+5+game

So overall, it is perfectly possible for IIHF-refs to hand out just a major penalty to both players involved.


Also, the idea that "goons" protect high skilled player or prevent dirty plays is as absurd as it gets. They are the main reason for dirty plays and have never prevented any of them. If anything, the pests who have been around absolutely loved the idea of the opponent sending goons after them, because it meant that the opponent had less talent on the roster, and was likely to take stupid penalties in a game. Possibly harming their team with playing shorthanded for 5 minutes, a long suspension and the reduction of salary that comes with the games lost don't stop dirty plays, but somehow having to fight is supposed to stop them? Right...
All they need to do is to evade the fight, or refuse to fight back, and they are likely to get a powerplay for their team out of anyone coming after them.

Lots of stickworks happens when refs don't do their job and refuse to call the necessary penalties. Severe dirty plays will never entirely vanish, but they are the most likely when the league doesn't hand out proper suspensions.

Refs don't do their job? LOL. The refs can't see everything. And how is 2 minute penalty gonna help, when McDavid hand is chopped into pieces? Fighting is in unwritten rules of hockey. You'll get 5 minute breather not tossed out like in IIHF.

Fighting helps to clean up and police the game. When refs are clueless, which is always the case in IIHF hockey.

 

[Sanderson]

Refs don't do their job? LOL. The refs can't see everything. And how is 2 minute penalty gonna help, when McDavid hand is chopped into pieces? Fighting is in unwritten rules of hockey. You'll get 5 minute breather not tossed out like in IIHF.

Fighting helps to clean up and police the game. When refs are clueless, which is always the case in IIHF hockey.

*Sigh* why did I know that there would be such a non-answer in return...

Yes, refs fail to do their job. Either because they are not good enough, or because the league tells them to act that way. If you constantly call stick-play, as you should because that's what the rules say, then players will drastically reduce these plays. You know why? Because players aren't completely stupid. If something constantly hurts their team, they will sit, or their team will lose a lot. Just like players miraculously managed to put much much less pucks into the stands once it led to a penalty.

Fighting has never kept anything clean, dirty plays were rampant when everyone had goons, and the goons were often the very cause for dirty plays to begin with. Largely because most of them lacked the skill to do anything else. They weren't good enough on offense, and not good enough to stop players cleanly on defense either.
You have little to no idea about IIHF-hockey, the amount of dirty plays that happen there, or the amount of fighting in it. I literally told you about IIHF-rules in the post you quoted, but why accept facts when you can just make up your own alternate reality instead, right?

The whole idea that something prevents players from "policing" themselves if they wanted to is ridiculous to begin with. So hurting their own team by going shorthanded, facing suspensions and losing income is not going to prevent dirty plays, but somehow players are scared of jumping an opponent in return because they might face the instigator? Do you realize how utterly stupid that sounds? Players have zero trouble policing themselves right now, if that's what they want do.

There is one thing and one thing only that makes players think twice: the league threatening their career and income by throwing the book at them. No fighter is ever going to stop an opponent from doing a dirty play. There really are just three different options for dirty plays:
1) it's an irrational act based on emotion, a spur of the moment decision, absolutely nothing can deter that, because the player didn't plan to do it beforehand
2) it happens because a player is out there to cause trouble. In that case his sole purpose is to rile up the other team and make them go after him. Anyone who tries to fight such a player doesn't deter him but gives him exactly what he wants
3) a player (constantly) skirts the edges of the rules, because he knows the refs and league haven't been tough enough

You cannot prevent the first option. With the second one, you can punish his antics so the acts backfire (see Sean Avery beginning to hurt his own team more than the opponent). With the third one, the only thing that helps are lengthy suspensions. It's what finally made Matt Cooke change his game, after fighting did diddly squat to effect him at all.