Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?

[RogerRoeper*]

Newsflash...

Edmonton just did. Three times. And it was purposeful as Kevin Lowe just pointed out.

Getting out of the free agent business....getting back to drafting and developing.....how clear do you need it spelled out?

Kevin Lowe never said he'd try to be thev worst team for 3 years. It's actually hard to do to be that bad.

And btw, they have been signing free agents. Have you missed that?


Also, why get out of the free agent business? Boston has a cup because of it. Edmonton hasn't done jack.

Keep thinking the only way to win is to get first overalls.

 

[Bomber0104]

Kevin Lowe never said he'd try to be thev worst team for 3 years. It's actually hard to do to be that bad.

And btw, they have been signing free agents. Have you missed that?

No GM is going to say that. Instead he said they'd be riding at the back of the bus. Again, how clearly does it need to be expressed for you to get it?

Yeah...Justin Schultz was just signed. Came to Edmonton specifically because the Oilers have been drafting and developing star players.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

No GM is going to say that. Instead he said they'd be riding at the back of the bus. Again, how clearly does it need to be expressed for you to get it?

Yeah...Justin Schultz was just signed. Came to Edmonton specifically because the Oilers have been drafting and developing star players.

Lowe wanted to give up 4 first rounders (3 first overalls) for Vanek. And he lost his job in Edmonton. And his team keeps finishing 30th overall. We're suppose to follow what this genius says?

Do you know how ridiculous your argument is? The worst NHl team doesn't want Lowe calling the shots on it's players.

 

[Bomber0104]

Lowe wanted to give up 4 first rounders (3 first overalls) for Vanek. And he lost his job in Edmonton. And his team keeps finishing 30th overall. We're suppose to follow what this genius says?

Do you know how ridiculous your argument is? The worst NHl team doesn't want Lowe calling the shots on it's players.

He offer sheeted in 2007 which means the 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 picks would have been forfeited.

That would have been two 1st overalls (2010, 2011) and that's assuming that an Edmonton team with Vanek doesn't improve at all (which is presumptuous) and management removes itself from the free agent business.

Your argument is simply incorrect.

Please review all the facts and information before trying to excuse Brian Burke's failures here in Toronto.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

He offer sheeted in 2007 which means the 2008, 2009, 2010 picks would have been forfeited.

That would have been one 1st overall (2010) and that's assuming that an Edmonton team with Vanek doesn't improve at all (which is presumptuous).

Your argument is simply incorrect.

Please review all the facts and information before trying to excuse Brian Burke's failures here in Toronto.

It was 4 first overalls, not 3. So he gave up 2 first overalls. If you go crazy over Burke giving up a second, imagine your reaction to that?

Why are you crediting Lowe for anything? Please explain. He got demoted by his own organization.

Please review all facts before trying to excuse Lowe's mistakes.

 

[Bomber0104]

It was 4 first overalls, not 3. So he gave up 2 first overalls. If you go crazy over Burke giving up a second, imagine your reaction to that?

Why are you crediting Lowe for anything? Please explain. He got demoted by his own organization.

Okay but that is not what you said. You seem to have a poor recollection of Edmonton's year-to-year progress and how it relates to Toronto (not at all).

I am crediting Lowe for being realistic with his team and developing a very sound strategy (riding the back of the bus) to get to contendership and not continuing to try and compete with typical Brian Burke type moves.

He was not demoted either. He was promoted from GM/VP to President.

Please review all the facts and information.

These excuses of yours are very weak.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Okay but that is not what you said. You seem to have a poor recollection of Edmonton's year-to-year progress and how it relates to Toronto (not at all).

I am crediting Lowe for being realistic with his team and developing a very sound strategy (riding the back of the bus) to get to contendership and not continuing to try and compete with typical Brian Burke type moves.

He was not demoted either. He was promoted from GM/VP to President.

Please review all the facts and information.

These excuses of yours are very weak.

It's a disguised demotion and EVERYONE knows it but you. They did not want him making decisions as GM anymore. And it's the NHL's worst NHL team doing that.

And BTW, signing Nik Khabibulin doesn't seem to me like an attempt to get a #1 overall pick.

Quoting the genius Kevin Lowe was just embarrassing.

 

[Bomber0104]

It's a disguised demotion and EVERYONE knows it but you. They did not want him making decisions as GM anymore. And it's the NHL's worst NHL team doing that.

And BTW, signing Nik Khabibulin doesn't seem to me like an attempt to get a #1 overall pick.

Quoting the genius Kevin Lowe was just embarrassing.

No that would be a promotion.

And the same strategy was carried forward with the new GM Tambellini.

Signing a veteran in net to allow Dubnyk to develop is not a bad move and this was done in Toronto too with Cujo, Gigeure, etc.

I quoted Kevin Lowe to show you what kind of a different strategy and organizational goal Edmonton has versus the gung-ho pursuit of playoffs one here in Toronto.

You dismissing this tells everyone all they need to know about your capacity for reason.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

No that would be a promotion.

And the same strategy was carried forward with the new GM Tambellini.

Signing a veteran in net to allow Dubnyk to develop is not a bad move and this was done in Toronto too with Cujo, Gigeure, etc.

I quoted Kevin Lowe to show you what kind of a different strategy and organizational goal Edmonton has versus the gung-ho pursuit of playoffs one here in Toronto.

You dismissing this tells everyone all they need to know about your capacity for reason.

CUJO was 31 and the best UFA signing in 98'. He was brought in to be the #1 guy, and the results spoke for themselves.

Dubnyk is nothing special. Because he's in Edmonton you must think he's some future franchise goalie.

Again, signing the Bulin wall, even at 36 doesn't seem to be like trying to get a first overall pick. You even claimed yourself UFA's is not the way to go.

 

[Bomber0104]

CUJO was 31 and the best UFA signing in 98'. He was brought in to be the #1 guy, and the results spoke for themselves.

Dubnyk is nothing special. Because he's in Edmonton you must think he's some future franchise goalie.

Again, signing the Bulin wall, even at 36 doesn't seem to be like trying to get a first overall pick. You even claimed yourself UFA's is not the way to go.

I was talking about Cujo a few years ago...not the young Cujo.

The UFA's that Brian Burke has signed are not the way to go as in:

Connolly, Komisarek, Liles, Macarthur, Armstrong...

When you are a really terrible team like the Leafs...you are improving the team unnecessarily and just harming your draft position.

But when you trade multiple first round picks, I guess this is the sort of thing you almost have to do to not avoid the humiliation of sending Tyler Seguin to a divisional rival..

 

[RogerRoeper*]

CUJO was signed by Fletcher as a goodwill ambassador to the fans because the team would be bad. He was not brought in to be the #1 guy or realistically help the team.

Not the same as the Khabibulin signing.

Isn't trading for then re-signing Ryan Smith trying to improve?

 

[Bomber0104]

CUJO was signed by Fletcher as a goodwill ambassador to the fans because the team would be bad. He was not brought in to be the #1 guy or realistically help the team.

Not the same as the Khabibulin signing.

Khabibulin's 29-61-13 record didn't help Edmonton at all.

He was there to serve as a mentor to JDD and Dubnyk.

 

[Bomber0104]

Ryan Smyth another move to provide veteran leadership to young guns like Eberle, Hall, Nuge....

 

[Bomber0104]

Roger I really think you need to spend some time actually talking to Edmonton fans to get the story...rather than talking crap about them and fallaciously trying to compare them to Toronto in order to excuse Brian Burke. You seem really obsessed with them but don't really understand the history of the team that well.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Liles wasn't an FA.

 

[ULF_55]

It was 4 first overalls, not 3. So he gave up 2 first overalls. If you go crazy over Burke giving up a second, imagine your reaction to that?

Why are you crediting Lowe for anything? Please explain. He got demoted by his own organization.

Please review all facts before trying to excuse Lowe's mistakes.

It is possible Vanek would be as ineffective as Kessel at elevating his team.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Ryan Smyth another move to provide veteran leadership to young guns like Eberle, Hall, Nuge....

Any move Edmonton makes you excuse it. You said yourself they decided not to sign UFa's. Yes they did...

And who cares iff Khabubulin didn't help? The point is the attempt to get better was there.

 

[ULF_55]

Any move Edmonton makes you excuse it. You said yourself they decided not to sign UFa's. Yes they did...

And who cares iff Khabubulin didn't help? The point is the attempt to get better was there.

Yes, both teams have failed in net, Giguere in Toronto.

 

[rumman]

I'm of the opinion that Bryan Murray build the Duck team that won the cup, sure Burke got a couple of stud defensemen to come to Anaheim, 1 to play with his brother (not a very hard sell) and another who's wife didn't like the Alberta winters. Other than that what exactly did Burke do?

 

[FelixPotvin29]

I'm of the opinion that Bryan Murray build the Duck team that won the cup, sure Burke got a couple of stud defensemen to come to Anaheim, 1 to play with his brother (not a very hard sell) and another who's wife didn't like the Alberta winters. Other than that what exactly did Burke do?

I'm pretty sure he built the ENTIRE defensive unit and the TOP line and more. I think it was about 75-80% of the team.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

I think their strategy was 100% to rebuild through the draft.
It just worked out better than they expected.
It's a combination of luck and a good GM with the patience to do things properly.

Unlike the leafs, which was a combination of... well... nothing. We just have a GM that's an idiot.

DO...telling it like it is

 

[Bomber0104]

I'm pretty sure he built the ENTIRE defensive unit and the TOP line and more. I think it was about 75-80% of the team.

Murray drafted Perry, Getzlaf, Lupul (traded for Pronger)

Signed Niedermayer (Rob) who was the reason for Scott signing.

Brian Burke had a big part in signing the supporting pieces but the bulk of the team's success in the playoffs was largely due to the pieces that were already there (Perry, Getzlaf, Lupul, Rob Nied, Giguere, 1st round picks).

In my opinion, Brian Burke would be great for a team like Vancouver (in its present state) in getting over the top. Not necessarily getting a bottom feeder out of the hole.

 

[FelixPotvin29]

Murray drafted Perry, Getzlaf, Lupul (traded for Pronger)

Signed Niedermayer (Rob) who was the reason for Scott signing.

Brian Burke had a big part in signing the supporting pieces but the bulk of the team's success in the playoffs was largely due to the pieces that were already there (Perry, Getzlaf, Lupul, Rob Nied, Giguere, 1st round picks).

In my opinion, Brian Burke would be great for a team like Vancouver (in its present state) in getting over the top. Not necessarily getting a bottom feeder out of the hole.

Oh I see. The first line of a hockey team is supporting pieces. As well as the WHOLE defensive core.

Check.

And in case you didn't know EVERY team in the NHL has prospects to trade. No other GM would be discredited for it. But when it comes to Burke, it makes sense... pure blind hatred. Every fan and GM in the NHL would trade prospects and firsts for a cup, but when Burke does it, it's simple and the reason for the cup.

Gee I sure wish we had a GM who could trade some good pieces for CUP like Burke did in Anaheim.

Then we could say Burke was lucky JFJ and Fletcher gave him some pieces to build his second line.



What's even funnier is that Burke (and Nonis) basically built what Vancouver is now, yet you use it as an example.

 

[Bomber0104]

Oh I see. The first line of a hockey team is supporting pieces. As well as the WHOLE defensive core.

Check.

And in case you didn't know EVERY team in the NHL has prospects to trade. No other GM would be discredited for it. But when it comes to Burke, it makes sense... pure blind hatred. Every fan and GM in the NHL would trade prospects and first for a cup, but when Burke does it, it's simple and the reason for the cup.

Gee I sure wish we had a GM who could trade some good pieces for CUP like Burke did in Anaheim.

Then we could say Burke was lucky JFJ and Flecter gave him some pieces to build his second line.

Dude...chill.

I never implied any of this.

I just said that Burke provided the supporting pieces..which he did.

I mean if you remember the Ducks cup run...Getzlaf and Perry were the best forwards.

Niedermayer and Pronger obviously being the best defence.

And Giguere the starting goalie.

Those were all pieces that have ties to Bryan Murray save for Giguere who predates even Murray.

Good on Burke for choosing to trade Lupul instead of Perry. It was the correct decision. And good on him for trading firsts instead of players for Pronger.

He made a good trade to get Chris Pronger (the best defenceman in the league) from Edmonton.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

2012 LA - Dean Lombardi
2011 Boston - Peter Chiarelli
2010 Chicago - Stan Bowman
2009 Pittsburgh - Ray Shero
2008 Detroit - Ken Holland
2007 Anaheim - Brian Burke
2006 Carolina - Jim Rutherford
2004 Tampa Bay - Jay Feaster
2003 New Jersey - Lou Lamoriello
2002 Detroit - Ken Holland
2001 Colorado - Pierre Lacroix
2000 New Jersey - Lou Lamoriello
1999 Dallas - Bob Gainey
1998 Detroit - Ken Holland
1997 Detroit - Jim Devellano
1996 Colorado - Pierre Lacroix
1995 New Jersey - Lou Lamoriello
1994 NY Rangers - Neil Smith
1993 Montreal - Serge Savard
1992 Pittsburgh - Craig Patrick
1991 Pittsburgh - Craig Patrick
1990 Edmonton - Glen Sather
1989 Calgary - Cliff Fletcher
1988 Edmonton - Glen Sather
1987 Edmonton - Glen Sather
1986 Montreal - Serge Savard
1985 Edmonton - Glen Sather
1984 Edmonton - Glen Sather
1983 NY Islanders - Bill Torrey
1982 NY Islanders - Bill Torrey
1981 NY Islanders - Bill Torrey
1980 NY Islanders - Bill Torrey
1979 Montreal - Irving Grundman
1978 Montreal - Sam Pollock
1977 Montreal - Sam Pollock
1976 Montreal - Sam Pollock
1975 Philadelphia - Keith Allen
1974 Philadelphia - Keith Allen
1973 Montreal - Sam Pollock
1972 Boston - Milt Schmidt
1971 Montreal - Sam Pollock
1970 Boston - Milt Schmidt
1969 Montreal - Sam Pollock
1968 Montreal - Sam Pollock

Brian Burkes Cup win was a guy at the right place at the right time...made some good additions to a solid foundation...far from a great GM....Above are post expansion GMs to win the holy hockey grail....some are legendary hockey minds......others like Burke just at the right place at the right time.