Shot from the Point

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Ive been saying this for years…….I get nervous when the puck goes back to Hedman.
when the puck goes back to a Leaf D man I don’t get the same feeling. The leafs D have terrible slap shots……

At this point I am more likely to believe the lack of slap shots is analytic in nature more than I am due to ability. Moe has a slap shot that is pretty good when he walks into it. It's the Team (or Group as they like to call themselves) philosophy to not take what they would call a low % shot when using a clapper. Yet....we still try one timers to players that are almost at the goal line when the angle is almost nothing. I remember Babs being worried about a blocked point shot leading to a short handed breakaway....how many times does that happen compared to having a D-man that other teams need to respect him shooting and opening up other stuff?

This issue somewhat resolved starting playoffs with Liljegren. Then we messed up the balance taking him out.

Lots of opportunity last night for him to get pucks through.

I see lots say we don't need Jakob Chychrun. Last night prove how wrong they are and were.

Use Sandin to get Chych, make Lil a permanent player and your shot from point issue is solved over night.

I would trade Sandin over Lilly any day. I can't believe I am saying that because I really thought Lilly was going to be a bust and nothing more than a 3rd pair guy. But Sandin is too small to play D and his offense is not enough to make up for that fact. Also, Sandin is Muzzin level slow which is why he dropped in the draft along with size. Brains he has...but the rest is needed too.

 

[OneTimer82]

Rielly is more of a rush defenseman when it comes to offense. He distributes the puck too slowly and tentatively on the blueline and lacks the like walking dynamism to pull open defensive seams. He also has no blueline shot. I think we just need a simpler PP set up next year with a bi-polar shot threat in Matthews on the faceoff dot and a blueline clapper on the opposite side or umbrella formation and just let pucks rip.

The PP vanishing year after year is a huge issue.

Quite frankly Rielly is one of the reasons why our PP crumbles in the playoffs. Shame on Keefe for not attempting to try a different look. The 3rd was just painful to watch.

 

[Tak7]

I thought it was hilarious, and insulting, that Tampa collapsed so low on their PK from game 4 onwards - they were begging Rielly to shoot the puck, leaving him wide open.

Keefe made an early adjustment in game 5, replacing Rielly with Giordano. And then he refused to stick with it.

The powerplay scored 1 goal in the final 3 games of the series. That's just not good enough, and a big reason why they are booking tee times today and not practicing for round 2.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Liljegren has a good shot from the point but alas Keefe hates him. One of those two should be gone and its not Liljegren.

 

[Antropovsky]

Rielly is a polarizing player. I like you find he frustrates more often that note. He is beyond predictable on the PP. He absolutely needs to be taken off the first unit.

Agreed that Liljegren should get a look; think Sandin warrants consideration.

What happens when the opponent allows passes around the perimeter and point shots but takes away the down low and cross ice passes? Mitch Marner becomes pretty useless at that point, as does Rielly because they both have weak shots. Matthews and Spezza are two of the only guys who can take a good slappers. I think Tavares was in front of the net, which is useless because the puck never gets taken.

 

[OneTimer82]

I thought it was hilarious, and insulting, that Tampa collapsed so low on their PK from game 4 onwards - they were begging Rielly to shoot the puck, leaving him wide open.

Keefe made an early adjustment in game 5, replacing Rielly with Giordano. And then he refused to stick with it.

The powerplay scored 1 goal in the final 3 games of the series. That's just not good enough, and a big reason why they are booking tee times today and not practicing for round 2.

Yup, Giordano got the puck through for the Matthews tip.....still can’t believe we are all here lamenting another first round exit. This has become ridiculous.

 

[Tak7]

Yup, Giordano got the puck through for the Matthews tip.....still can’t believe we are all here lamenting another first round exit. This has become ridiculous.

Yeah, as more time passes today, the more stunned I am that we are here again.

I genuinely thought heading into last night, that things were going to be different.

 

[Superstar]

Patrick Laine /thread

I think Matthews straight up could get it done, might have to throw in Knies just to sweeten the deal...

 

[OneTimer82]

Yeah, as more time passes today, the more stunned I am that we are here again.

I genuinely thought heading into last night, that things were going to be different.

Gonna watch bucks/Celtics game 7 shortly. Gotta take my mind of the disappointment.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Moving the puck fast on the PP is more of an issue that having a big one-timer on the point. I can't believe people are still hung up on that.

We suck on the PP when we start getting tentative with the puck and bobble it. Matthews rarely looked ready to shoot the puck even when he got it, and he missed the net wide a bunch of times. That is not good enough from a 60 goal scorer.

And if you want Rielly more involved, then use him more. You have Tavares in front of the net and Rielly has a shot made for tips and rebounds. I have wanted that for years, and to use it with purpose rather than with desperation. It doesn't even need to be a one-timer.

We also need our wingers to be able to do more than just looking for cross-seam passes. They can't seem to stick handle to make room for themselves. If you are not able to move the puck fast, then you better be able to make room for yourself.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Gonna watch bucks/Celtics game 7 shortly. Gotta take my mind of the disappointment.

Jeff Van Gundy's glasses =

Moving the puck fast on the PP is more of an issue that having a big one-timer on the point.

I definitely agree with that. Looking for that perfect pass is a lot harder to do in the playoffs.

 

[OneTimer82]

Moving the puck fast on the PP is more of an issue that having a big one-timer on the point. I can't believe people are still hung up on that.

We suck on the PP when we start getting tentative with the puck and bobble it. Matthews rarely looked ready to shoot the puck even when he got it, and he missed the net wide a bunch of times. That is not good enough from a 60 goal scorer.

And if you want Rielly more involved, then use him more. You have Tavares in front of the net and Rielly has a shot made for tips and rebounds. I have wanted that for years, and to use it with purpose rather than with desperation. It doesn't even need to be a one-timer.

We also need our wingers to be able to do more than just looking for cross-seam passes. They can't seem to stick handle to make room for themselves. If you are not able to move the puck fast, then you better be able to make room for yourself.

I think not having at least a threat of a shot from the point ( on a consistent basis) is an issue, and leads to a predictable pp.

It’s both a philosophical and personnel issue which the team needs to address.

Their formula clearly doesn’t work in the playoffs.

 

[OneTimer82]

What happens when the opponent allows passes around the perimeter and point shots but takes away the down low and cross ice passes? Mitch Marner becomes pretty useless at that point, as does Rielly because they both have weak shots. Matthews and Spezza are two of the only guys who can take a good slappers. I think Tavares was in front of the net, which is useless because the puck never gets taken.

We saw how inept the PP was down the stretch of the series.

 

[Apotheosis]

Rielly excels on the rush because his skating and edge work and hands let him break through multiple people. He is one of the worst PP QB's in the league though. He is so slow with decision making and gives the PK so much time to collapse on the slot threats. Not to mention no threat from his shot makes it so they can just cover those guys without having to worry about him as a threat. You change him to a guy like Makar and we're looking at this series being over in 5 or 6 games in favour of the Leafs off of the fact that the PP would have actually done something when it needed to.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think not having at least a threat of a shot from the point ( on a consistent basis) is an issue, and leads to a predictable pp.

It’s both a philosophical and personnel issue which the team needs to address.

Their formula clearly doesn’t work in the playoffs.

It has nothing to do "with the playoffs". Our PP goes through hot streaks and cold streaks just like everyone else, and the times it sucks are the same as when it is in the playoffs. At the same time, we are the top PP in the league for a reason. We are tough to stop, but we also have to execute. We didn't execute. Matthews has had looks and space, but over 50% of his shots are getting blocked or miss the net these past two playoffs. In the regular season, he sits at 35%. Call it mental, or whatever you want, but it is not because he is not converting even when he gets the looks.

All you need to do is look at our PP when it does well vs. when it doesn't. When it goes well, we are moving the puck fast and with purpose. We use everyone and don't force things to Marner/Matthews. And guys execute when they get their looks.

In the playoffs, on PP's which didn't look good, we were slow and guys were far too tentative. They took an extra second and Tampa is far too good for you to take that second. And then when they had looks, they missed. They didn't get it done.

I'll also add with how Hedman scored his two PP goals in this series. Rielly can score goals the same way (in fact Rielly's PP goal is very similar to Hedman's first PP goal). Hedman didn't just rip off goals from the blueline and expected them to go in. He shot for tips and he shot for the hope that maybe it found a hole. One did.

It is typical Leafs to fixate on this kind of thing like it is a solution. It is not. It won't make a difference without the other underlying issues getting fixed, and at that point, adding a shot doesn't really result in any noticeable improvements anyways. And you certainly don't want a big shot from the point which takes away opportunities from your legit shooters if they can't also create more looks.

 

[Havoc]

I thought it was hilarious, and insulting, that Tampa collapsed so low on their PK from game 4 onwards - they were begging Rielly to shoot the puck, leaving him wide open.

Keefe made an early adjustment in game 5, replacing Rielly with Giordano. And then he refused to stick with it.

The powerplay scored 1 goal in the final 3 games of the series. That's just not good enough, and a big reason why they are booking tee times today and not practicing for round 2.

That was weird. They scored on that PP with Gio and then never looked at it again.

 

[Havoc]

It has nothing to do "with the playoffs". Our PP goes through hot streaks and cold streaks just like everyone else, and the times it sucks are the same as when it is in the playoffs. At the same time, we are the top PP in the league for a reason. We are tough to stop, but we also have to execute. We didn't execute. Matthews has had looks and space, but over 50% of his shots are getting blocked or miss the net these past two playoffs. In the regular season, he sits at 35%. Call it mental, or whatever you want, but it is not because he is not converting even when he gets the looks.

All you need to do is look at our PP when it does well vs. when it doesn't. When it goes well, we are moving the puck fast and with purpose. We use everyone and don't force things to Marner/Matthews. And guys execute when they get their looks.

In the playoffs, on PP's which didn't look good, we were slow and guys were far too tentative. They took an extra second and Tampa is far too good for you to take that second. And then when they had looks, they missed. They didn't get it done.

I'll also add with how Hedman scored his two PP goals in this series. Rielly can score goals the same way (in fact Rielly's PP goal is very similar to Hedman's first PP goal). Hedman didn't just rip off goals from the blueline and expected them to go in. He shot for tips and he shot for the hope that maybe it found a hole. One did.

It is typical Leafs to fixate on this kind of thing like it is a solution. It is not. It won't make a difference without the other underlying issues getting fixed, and at that point, adding a shot doesn't really result in any noticeable improvements anyways. And you certainly don't want a big shot from the point which takes away opportunities from your legit shooters if they can't also create more looks.

Leafs powerplay has been mediocre 3 playoffs in a row. If we keep taking it as hot and cold streaks and run the same strategies year after year we deserve to lose.

I can't fathom how a bomb on the point doesn't make the PP better. If you're concerned it will take opportunities away from your skilled shooters you need to remember the D doesn't have to take the shot. Simply possessing the shot to unload changes how the PK unit has to play you. Makes life even better for your legit shooters.


btw I assume when people say bomb from the point they also mean the D has the skill to be on the PP

 

[Thornbury]

Rielly is NOT a #1 PP QB dman. Never has been, never will be. Dubas just can't accept this fact. FYI, its more important to get the shot through consistently given how PKs are structured currently.

That's the coach's call, not the GM's.

 

[OneTimer82]

Leafs powerplay has been mediocre 3 playoffs in a row. If we keep taking it as hot and cold streaks and run the same strategies year after year we deserve to lose.

I can't fathom how a bomb on the point doesn't make the PP better. If you're concerned it will take opportunities away from your skilled shooters you need to remember the D doesn't have to take the shot. Simply possessing the shot to unload changes how the PK unit has to play you. Makes life even better for your legit shooters.


btw I assume when people say bomb from the point they also mean the D has the skill to be on the PP

Totally agree, it’s a systemic issue. Don’t quite understand his logic either.

As you rightfully pointed out, having the threat of a shot keeps the other team honest.

 

[Gabriel426]

When it comes to our PP, it really seems like Keefe wants it to be Ovie and Caps style than TB style.
It seems like they want AM to take all the shots and when you look at TB, it doesnt matter if it is Kuch or Stamkos or Point, they will fire it when they have the chance. Thats the mentality the PP needs.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

mccabe 20 years ago was the last reliable rocket from a dman.

soft perimiter woke team like the pres and gm and coach.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Leafs powerplay has been mediocre 3 playoffs in a row. If we keep taking it as hot and cold streaks and run the same strategies year after year we deserve to lose.

I can't fathom how a bomb on the point doesn't make the PP better. If you're concerned it will take opportunities away from your skilled shooters you need to remember the D doesn't have to take the shot. Simply possessing the shot to unload changes how the PK unit has to play you. Makes life even better for your legit shooters.


btw I assume when people say bomb from the point they also mean the D has the skill to be on the PP

Bombs from the point don't exist anymore. Not really. You don't see guys taking slapshots from the blueline very often, especially on the PP. If you can find a consistent example of a defenseman doing that, and it works, then by all means show me.

The best example of a shooting defenseman is a guy like Makar, and that is because he uses his feet to create space for his excellent wrist shot and that unit is constantly rotating in the offensive zone. He doesn't use a slapshot most of the time. Colorado's PP works because they are moving, they are fast, and they are not just looking for one-timers. They switch up their looks.

As I said before, you can add a bomb from the point and it won't make a difference if you don't solve the other issues, and if you solve those other issues, then having a better point shot doesn't really make much of a difference anyways. PK's already cover the point guy, regardless of their shot, but they are not going to overcommit to the point shot unless you are like Cale Makar or something. They would rather have a defenseman take a shot than a guy like Mattthews or Nylander. It is not going to open up as much space as people think.



Is this what people want? Notice that the Habs PK could give zero craps about Hedman's shot, and really, it was a bad goal to let up by the goalie there too. Sure, if they decide to play Rielly like that, then I would more than welcome Rielly to take that shot. And I welcome Rielly to take more shots. He has a good shot, especially if he can get some space. I don't think you need to go out and add a better shot with the idea that you are incorporating that more into your game plan. But rather than fixating on adding a better shot from the point, how about we work on ways that actually are more conducive with getting guys more space and gets everyone more involved, like we have seen with Colorado's PP?



We are more than capable, and we have seen the Leafs do a similar thing all the time at ES. Why is it suddenly different on the PP? Because the other team can clear it without icing? When we do it at ES, we barely let the other team touch the puck anyways.

We don't have to do it the same way every time. Keep them guessing. And if you want to use the point shot more, then we have two units (with Sandin on the other one who everyone thinks has this special shot) or we have Rielly who has a shot which can score when he is given the chance. It may not be the best shot in the world, but it is more than capable of making defenses think twice if it is not taken away.

I don't know if it is systemic or if it is personnel that prevents them from switching things up, but we've had a different PP coach each of the past 4 years and we are seeing the same issue. We've changed the PP QB and we've seen the same issues. We have had success but then we also hit cold stretches at the worst possible times. If the Leafs hire me at some point, maybe I can let you know.

 

[disgruntleddave]

Watching how other teams get it done, it's more than just an issue with the shot from the point.

We had other grade a opportunities to shoot that were not taken. Both by our D and F group. I do think guys notched it up this series, but we didn't really have that desperation in specifically our attack. We still have guys looking for passing plays over putting it on net and getting dirty. For all that talk of playoff style goals during the season, we didn't rip and claw for them this series. Tampa gave us just enough space to make our passing plays around the perimeter and we took that because it's what our players and coaching conflates with game control.