Shipachyov Suspended (Update v3: He Gone)

[Lansdown]

He's a Putin plant.

 

[Gerin]

From his perspective, he was signed as a marquee signing. He has no interest in going to play AHL because someone couldnt do the job of sorting the rosters. You think he gives a f**k what waivers, paper transactions or fixing books? Nope, he wants to play hockey. VGK had a top class player on their roster, and didn't look after him. He moved his family and relocated to a country he doesnt speak the language of. Imagine this happened you in your job.

Agree with this, you bring in a player with big hype, sign him to a pretty big deal and say he's gonna be your numer 1 C, but after only 3 games of about 10 minutes of ice time you give up. If this is how VGK and GMGM viewed Ship why even sign him to begin with. 3 games is a extremely small sample size especially for a talented player like Ship who was put in a bottom 6 role at best. Woulda been better for both parties if he signed else where or stayed in St Petersburg

 

[BattleBorn]

Agree with this, you bring in a player with big hype, sign him to a pretty big deal and say he's gonna be your numer 1 C, but after only 3 games of about 10 minutes of ice time you give up. If this is how VGK and GMGM viewed Ship why even sign him to begin with. 3 games is a extremely small sample size especially for a talented player like Ship who was put in a bottom 6 role at best. Woulda been better for both parties if he signed else where or stayed in St Petersburg

Here's the way I look at it.

Yes, you sign Vadim to a large contract, larger than anyone else would have given. Yes, you think he's a good player and needs time.

However, he came in and didn't light the world on fire. Plus, there's 7 players you're going to get stuck with no matter what since you have to take 30 players and can only put 23 on the roster.

I get what GMGM is doing, even if it seems stupid. You try to maximize return on every single player you have to take in the expansion draft. Send people like Tuch, Theodore, and (yes) Shipachyov down to the AHL to make sure you maximize. Imagine if GMGM only took 23 players in the expansion draft and just punted/threw away players from seven teams. That's putting a team on the ice for this year, and not for the future. That's exactly what we don't need. I've said it a few times, but taking a shot at getting a 7th rounder for someone like Reinhart is more valuable to the Knights organization than making sure Tuch, Theo, and Ship get ice time in the first month or two. We're not winning the cup or are even likely to make the playoffs this year. It just is the best route to take, and there's no way anyone can convince me otherwise.

I get why Vadim Shipachyov is a little frustrated. He doesn't want to play in the AHL, I get it. However, he's still getting paid $4.5MM to do it. Tuch and Theodore were getting paid a fraction of their NHL salary in the AHL and they swallowed hard and played for the Wolves. They're both likely in Knights uniforms for the rest of the season. If he came in and just lit it up in camp, preseason, and the games in which he played (like Tuch and Theodore) I might even understand why he'd be pissed to get sent down. He didn't. However, like I said, I get it. There's ego involved, and that's fine.

I think Vadim didn't have the situation as it exists in Las Vegas explained to him correctly (or perhaps even at all.) The majority of people here on HF, a group of people that spend way too much time watching and talking about the NHL, don't understand many of the rules in the CBA. How could we reasonably expect a KHL player that doesn't even speak the language to understand that they're waiver eligible and we've got a glut of players that have to clear waivers. I think that's a failure on the organization as well as Vadim's agent. This was going to happen no matter what unless you really wanted GMGM to go the "punt away picks in the expansion draft" route.

So, how do we resolve this?

First thing I'd do is go hire a Russian translator to ensure the information Vadim is getting isn't put through his third party translator or his agent and explain to him that he's still a major part of the organization's plans. Explain that while he's gotten sent to Chicago twice, it's mostly to do with roster moves versus performance. Explain why he's got to play at least one game for Chicago, since I don't think you can let him into the dressing room without doing so. Explain that VGK still controls what he does for the next two years and that we'd much rather have him playing for us than the alternative, and I'm sure he'd prefer that as well. Let him know that the money he's getting paid is given to him for a reason, but it's also the reason he's not going anywhere else in the NHL.

I personally think this entire thing is fairly easily handled, and if you try to put yourself into a mindset where neither Vadim nor McPhee are stupid, I think it's easy to work out. I also think a lot of these decisions have been agent driven, and with the way it's playing out it's fairly apparent to me that his agent is not looking out for his client's best interests.

It's going to take a little bit of working together, but I truly think this can work out. Plus, like a few people have said, GMGM holds all the cards, so it's best to work it out. If you're already screwed with Russians for a few years just based on what's happened thus far, what is there to lose in trying to repair the situation with some solid communication?

People are going to say GMGM screwed up, and he might have. He probably has spent too much time trying to maximize the players that won't get much attention from other teams. However, in the long term, making the right business move for the franchise and trying to maximize every single asset you have is 100% correct. Especially now, when apparently the most you can hope for from Ship is a good effort and good production for the Knights or a pick and salary retention to move him. Right now, he's worth as much to the Knights as Griffin Reinhart, perhaps even less due to using a salary retention spot. Might as well make a go of it. I don't see contract cancellation as an option, especially if he's got to pay the prorated $2MM signing bonus back to the Knights.

 

[CupInSIX]

A funny thing I noticed from preseason was Ship's interpretation of the rules while all the faceoff violations and hand slashes were being called. He was all alone in front of the net and stopped skating, then looked back at the ref when he felt the defenceman whack his glove as if to say 'oh that's an automatic penalty here, right?'

Needless to say there was clearly an adjustment period that would have alleviated some concerns from both sides.

Agree with this, you bring in a player with big hype, sign him to a pretty big deal and say he's gonna be your numer 1 C, but after only 3 games of about 10 minutes of ice time you give up. If this is how VGK and GMGM viewed Ship why even sign him to begin with. 3 games is a extremely small sample size especially for a talented player like Ship who was put in a bottom 6 role at best. Woulda been better for both parties if he signed else where or stayed in St Petersburg

Technically they didn't give up after 3 games. He was already out after preseason and re-assigned to play a 3 game stint. It was Ship that gave up after 3 games, McPhee wanted him to play in the AHL.

 

[BattleBorn]

And let me add this:

In my opinion, you can not play Vadim Shipachyov in the NHL whithout making him play at least one game in Chicago first. You can't do that while you've got two solid future long-term core guys in Tuch and Theodore playing in the NHL after doing their time (for the good of the team, mind you) in the AHL. You just can't. That's horrible for the dressing room.

 

[LadyStanley]

He on ice performance has been seen and commented on. But how he is in the lockerroom can be even more important; and unless you have a spy in the organization (or a bug in the room) it's hard from the outside to know what is happening. (Even questions from reporters may not result in enough disclosure on the outside as to how things really are.)

Not to mention the potential language barrier.

I have met a number of European players over the years and engaged them (or attempted to) in (short) conversation. Some guys just don't fit; it might be their family situation (e.g., lack of English for spouse, or other members; lack of familiarity of food and activities). Those that are dedicated to be in NHL work hard (on and off the ice) to fit in, including improvement of their English comprehension and vocabulary. It's usually pretty easy to determine if guys are/will fit in, quickly.

Players that get separated from family to head to minors can be very stressful -- even if family is from North America.

So, cutting losses sooner than later might be the best solution for all involved. Regardless of future reputation of signing players.

 

[Gerin]

Here's the way I look at it.

Yes, you sign Vadim to a large contract, larger than anyone else would have given. Yes, you think he's a good player and needs time.

However, he came in and didn't light the world on fire. Plus, there's 7 players you're going to get stuck with no matter what since you have to take 30 players and can only put 23 on the roster.

I get what GMGM is doing, even if it seems stupid. You try to maximize return on every single player you have to take in the expansion draft. Send people like Tuch, Theodore, and (yes) Shipachyov down to the AHL to make sure you maximize. Imagine if GMGM only took 23 players in the expansion draft and just punted/threw away players from seven teams. That's putting a team on the ice for this year, and not for the future. That's exactly what we don't need. I've said it a few times, but taking a shot at getting a 7th rounder for someone like Reinhart is more valuable to the Knights organization than making sure Tuch, Theo, and Ship get ice time in the first month or two. We're not winning the cup or are even likely to make the playoffs this year. It just is the best route to take, and there's no way anyone can convince me otherwise.

I get why Vadim Shipachyov is a little frustrated. He doesn't want to play in the AHL, I get it. However, he's still getting paid $4.5MM to do it. Tuch and Theodore were getting paid a fraction of their NHL salary in the AHL and they swallowed hard and played for the Wolves. They're both likely in Knights uniforms for the rest of the season. If he came in and just lit it up in camp, preseason, and the games in which he played (like Tuch and Theodore) I might even understand why he'd be pissed to get sent down. He didn't. However, like I said, I get it. There's ego involved, and that's fine.

I think Vadim didn't have the situation as it exists in Las Vegas explained to him correctly (or perhaps even at all.) The majority of people here on HF, a group of people that spend way too much time watching and talking about the NHL, don't understand many of the rules in the CBA. How could we reasonably expect a KHL player that doesn't even speak the language to understand that they're waiver eligible and we've got a glut of players that have to clear waivers. I think that's a failure on the organization as well as Vadim's agent. This was going to happen no matter what unless you really wanted GMGM to go the "punt away picks in the expansion draft" route.

So, how do we resolve this?

First thing I'd do is go hire a Russian translator to ensure the information Vadim is getting isn't put through his third party translator or his agent and explain to him that he's still a major part of the organization's plans. Explain that while he's gotten sent to Chicago twice, it's mostly to do with roster moves versus performance. Explain why he's got to play at least one game for Chicago, since I don't think you can let him into the dressing room without doing so. Explain that VGK still controls what he does for the next two years and that we'd much rather have him playing for us than the alternative, and I'm sure he'd prefer that as well. Let him know that the money he's getting paid is given to him for a reason, but it's also the reason he's not going anywhere else in the NHL.

I personally think this entire thing is fairly easily handled, and if you try to put yourself into a mindset where neither Vadim nor McPhee are stupid, I think it's easy to work out. I also think a lot of these decisions have been agent driven, and with the way it's playing out it's fairly apparent to me that his agent is not looking out for his client's best interests.

It's going to take a little bit of working together, but I truly think this can work out. Plus, like a few people have said, GMGM holds all the cards, so it's best to work it out. If you're already screwed with Russians for a few years just based on what's happened thus far, what is there to lose in trying to repair the situation with some solid communication?

People are going to say GMGM screwed up, and he might have. He probably has spent too much time trying to maximize the players that won't get much attention from other teams. However, in the long term, making the right business move for the franchise and trying to maximize every single asset you have is 100% correct. Especially now, when apparently the most you can hope for from Ship is a good effort and good production for the Knights or a pick and salary retention to move him. Right now, he's worth as much to the Knights as Griffin Reinhart, perhaps even less due to using a salary retention spot. Might as well make a go of it. I don't see contract cancellation as an option, especially if he's got to pay the prorated $2MM signing bonus back to the Knights.

I agree and like what you are saying. What I have been posting may seem that I am giving Ship the benefit of the doubt. But this is only because many people on here seem to be against Ship completely. I just find it a little unprofessional (to say the least) from all parties, agent/Ship/GMGM and VGK organization that this mess was created. Like you mentioned it could of been easy to work out and seems like a communication error.

He had potential to be a good second line forward and could of been traded for assets in the year or 2. Too bad it ended up this way and hopefully it doesn't effect future free agents. The key piece from the TBL trade was getting Gusev, who over the past 2 years has been Vadim's line up both club and internationally. Makes you wonder if that could effect Gusev's decision on coming over to play for VGK

 

[LadyStanley]

Lawless on NHLN NHL Now this afternoon. Sounds like GMGM is still trying to work this out rather than immediate unconditional waivers

 

[BattleBorn]

Lawless on NHLN NHL Now this afternoon. Sounds like GMGM is still trying to work this out rather than immediate unconditional waivers

There's no reason not to.

Resolving it now is worst case scenario for everyone involved.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Respectfully, that is just plain silly.

Ship was given every opportunity to prove himself NHL worthy. I assume you have watched every game (as I have) and attended a game or two.

If you did, you would agree that Ship sometimes did not seem engaged with the action. I honestly was wondering whether he was injured. He has not played a Malkin-style game, rushing to the puck and digging for the puck against the boards. He was not someone for throwing his body into the play.

Let's see: 2 million pepperonis for a signing bonus. That's more than the a lot of fans will make in a quarter century of work.

Honest question, do you truly believe Shipachyov was given every opportunity?

I see an elite talent who was given three games to adjust to North American ice, scored a goal and is +3 in that time. Underperformed a little? Yes. Demotion worthy? Certainly not.

If GMGM had any sense at all he'd have asked the staff to plug Ship into the top 6 for another half dozen games, got his value up, then either keep him and reap the rewards or trade him off to Montreal, or one of the other twenty teams seeking C help.

Don't send the man down before he's had a chance to adjust.

 

[Blue Goose]

If GMGM had any sense at all he'd have asked the staff to plug Ship into the top 6 for another half dozen games, got his value up, then either keep him and reap the rewards or trade him off to Montreal, or one of the other twenty teams seeking C help.

Don't send the man down before he's had a chance to adjust.

But that's the issue - Gallant didn't want to plug him into the Top 6. After evaluating him in training camp, preseason and the 3 regular season games, it seems that Gallant wasn't going to play him since he wasn't helping the team. His waiver eligibility made it a very easy decision to send him down from there.

I think the biggest culprit in all of this is Svoboda, who's pulling strings behind the scenes. Shippy reported to Chicago, practiced with the team and was scheduled to play last Saturday - then right before the game, he bails and flies back to Vegas. To me, that seems like something the agent would advise, as though to avoid an injury in Chicago to not hurt his trade chances.

None of us know exactly what has gone on between McPhee, Gallant, Shippy, Svoboda, etc. so we can all just guess based on the facts. No one knows what McPhee may or may not have promised Shippy/Svoboda when he signed him - we just know that Gallant himself said that Shippy needs development time. No one knows if Shippy's family didn't want to be apart from him - we just know that Shippy reported to Chicago and had every intention of playing. To me, it seems like Shippy just wants to play, but he's getting some bad advice from his agent (but again, that's just my guess).

 

[LadyStanley]

3 RS + 4 PS

9/19 @ Avs

13:04

20

00:39

04:16

00:21

08:27

1

2

2

7

22

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

9/26 vs Kings

1

2

18:00

21

00:51

04:07

00:00

13:53

4

6

40

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

9/28 vs Avs

1

1

-1

1

2

16:38

18

00:55

07:06

00:24

09:08

3

1

0

4

0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

10/1 game vs Sharks

-1

19:12

20

00:57

05:48

00:06

13:18

1

1

2

2

4

5

44

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

One assist and -2 in the four PS games. And was not doing well in the faceoff circle (10-22).


One cliche I often hear is that you "play as you practice". Could be he did/does not have a good work ethic?

 

[Gerin]

12th in corsi % (7th in forwards) and 11th in fenwick % (6th in forwards) for the team. Also never had the chance to play with Marchessault and Smith. Marchessault a small right handed scoring winger and if anyone knows of Ship's history he's had success with former line-mates like that (Panarin & Gusev).

Wasn't given a real chance to prove himself and I don't look to far into preseason games as not every shows up there. Even Reilly Smith wasn't that good in preseason and now is one VGK best players

 

[TheGoldenJet]

But that's the issue - Gallant didn't want to plug him into the Top 6. After evaluating him in training camp, preseason and the 3 regular season games, it seems that Gallant wasn't going to play him since he wasn't helping the team. His waiver eligibility made it a very easy decision to send him down from there.

I think the biggest culprit in all of this is Svoboda, who's pulling strings behind the scenes. Shippy reported to Chicago, practiced with the team and was scheduled to play last Saturday - then right before the game, he bails and flies back to Vegas. To me, that seems like something the agent would advise, as though to avoid an injury in Chicago to not hurt his trade chances.

None of us know exactly what has gone on between McPhee, Gallant, Shippy, Svoboda, etc. so we can all just guess based on the facts. No one knows what McPhee may or may not have promised Shippy/Svoboda when he signed him - we just know that Gallant himself said that Shippy needs development time. No one knows if Shippy's family didn't want to be apart from him - we just know that Shippy reported to Chicago and had every intention of playing. To me, it seems like Shippy just wants to play, but he's getting some bad advice from his agent (but again, that's just my guess).

It's just not enough time. Preseason is not NHL hockey, he needed more time and the GM ought to communicate that to the coach. "Play him more and we'll get him out of here" would have been the general sentiment. I'm sure Montreal (for example) would have been all over this player if Vegas gave him a chance to show off his proven talent and adjust to the big ice. It doesn't always happen overnight, but chances are very good that it would happen at some point soon.

 

[BattleBorn]

He got the same chance as Tuch and Theodore. They both went down to the AHL and came back, and by most accounts required less seasoning than Shipachyov. Sometimes these things have to happen, and almost everyone knew the Knights were putting waiver exempt players in the AHL, except apparently Shipachyov.

I get that he's 30 and played in the KHL so perhaps he just deserves a spot because of his name. However, I'd be a whole lot sympathetic if he was the only one sent down, but he wasn't. McPhee made a lot of moves to get the waiver exempt guys we have on the roster, every one of them is the result of a deal that happened outside of the expansion draft, including Ship.

All it comes down to is whether you think he deserves a spot on the roster from day one due to his name and performance in Russia. If you think so, then there's nothing to be said to change your mind. Say he played poorly in games, say he didn't practice to the level of the team, say he missed opportunities in preseason, none of it matters because he deserves the spot because he is him. I don't agree with that stance, and apparently GMGM and Gallant don't either.

This is literally a non-issue if he just made the pro move and played his three games or whatever in Chicago. He didn't, now we're here.

Garrison is literally in the same situation as Shipachyov minus the exempt status, and he's in Chicago.

 

[Blue Goose]

Wasn't given a real chance to prove himself and I don't look to far into preseason games as not every shows up there. Even Reilly Smith wasn't that good in preseason and now is one VGK best players

Did it occur to you that one of the reasons Smith didn't look good in the preseason was because Shippy was centering his line?

All it comes down to is whether you think he deserves a spot on the roster from day one due to his name and performance in Russia. If you think so, then there's nothing to be said to change your mind. Say he played poorly in games, say he didn't practice to the level of the team, say he missed opportunities in preseason, none of it matters because he deserves the spot because he is him. I don't agree with that stance, and apparently GMGM and Gallant don't either.

Yeah, this pretty much sums it up. The NHL is not a developmental league, that's what the AHL is for. If a guy needs to get used to playing in this country, it should happen at a lower level first - if he's 22, it's not a problem. But he's 30, and people think he should have been gifted a top 6 role, even though he apparently has not played up to it.

I'm just so tired of this debate - I wish he'd hurry up and fire Svoboda and report to Chicago. There will be trades, his time will come.

 

[Gerin]

Did it occur to you that one of the reasons Smith didn't look good in the preseason was because Shippy was centering his line?

Ha, and your basing that off of what....? Similar to Ship in the preseason and many other players you can tell they are not giving their full effort. They are more focused on the long 82 game season, preseasons are more for tune up. It was obvious that even Smith's effort wasn't their

 

[TheGoldenJet]

He got the same chance as Tuch and Theodore. They both went down to the AHL and came back, and by most accounts required less seasoning than Shipachyov. Sometimes these things have to happen, and almost everyone knew the Knights were putting waiver exempt players in the AHL, except apparently Shipachyov.

I get that he's 30 and played in the KHL so perhaps he just deserves a spot because of his name. However, I'd be a whole lot sympathetic if he was the only one sent down, but he wasn't. McPhee made a lot of moves to get the waiver exempt guys we have on the roster, every one of them is the result of a deal that happened outside of the expansion draft, including Ship.

All it comes down to is whether you think he deserves a spot on the roster from day one due to his name and performance in Russia. If you think so, then there's nothing to be said to change your mind. Say he played poorly in games, say he didn't practice to the level of the team, say he missed opportunities in preseason, none of it matters because he deserves the spot because he is him. I don't agree with that stance, and apparently GMGM and Gallant don't either.

This is literally a non-issue if he just made the pro move and played his three games or whatever in Chicago. He didn't, now we're here.

Garrison is literally in the same situation as Shipachyov minus the exempt status, and he's in Chicago.

Eh, I see what you're saying , but to me it's not just about who deserves/doesn't deserve what, but also about asset management.

They just lost Ship (regarded league-wide as a top 6 C a week ago) for nothing. That's poor asset management from a Gm who's job it is to pick up every 2nd/3rd round pick he can for the next two years.

 

[BattleBorn]

Eh, I see what you're saying , but to me it's not just about who deserves/doesn't deserve what, but also about asset management.

They just lost Ship (regarded league-wide as a top 6 C a week ago) for nothing. That's poor asset management from a Gm who's job it is to pick up every 2nd/3rd round pick he can for the next two years.

I'd put money on Shipachyov playing in a Knights (or Wolves) uniform before any other team's right now.

The situation stinks, but all we know that we didn't know two weeks ago is that he's not reported for games with Chicago for a second time and this time they suspended him instead of letting him stay at home in Las Vegas. He hasn't been waived, the contract's not cancelled, and it's the same stuff as it's been. KHL doesn't want him right now/can't have him right now, and he's still got $2.5MM he can get this year.

If the attitude really is a problem and they don't want it in the Wolves or Knights locker room, I imagine he'd get waived and his contract cancelled, they might even let him keep his $2MM just to be done with it. They must think it's salvageable, so I do too.

 

[hockeywiz542]

​

 

[BattleBorn]

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[BattleBorn]

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Unfortunate this happened and people can blame some of this on Ship not reporting but he chose Vegas as he was sold on being given a top 6 role. Also GMGM is showing his true colours trying to ensure Ship doesn’t sign with another team and doesn’t get claimed. He’s completely sandbagging Ship and it’s a scumbag move.

 

[BattleBorn]

We don't know what Ship was promised, and everyone knew there was a chance he'd go down except for him, apparently.

GMGM is doing what he should do. Let's not act like this was started by McPhee. Ship could have been on the ice looking for passes in tonight's game if he reported to Chicago like Tuch and Theodore.

Ship started the shitfest by not acting like a pro and doing what thousands of players before him have done. If we're already going through the mud for his tantrum, he can sit it out until some KHL bottomfeeder decides its time to start another KHL/NHL contract battle. I see zero reason to do anything to help him at this point if his plan is to continue his actions thus far.

Say what you want about putting a KHL "superstar" in the AHL for a few weeks, that's well within the rights of the Golden Knights or any team that holds his rights. That's allowed. Not showing up to do what you're supposed to do because your feefees are hurt is a crap move and the cause of all of this.