Shero time in the Devils organization.

[Triumph]

My personal thoughts on Shero:

He was tied to his goalie metaphorically. He came into the organization to form this two headed hydra, and then the legend Lou Lams took off to Toronto (He also took a lot of the staff with him). Like Corey replacing Broduer, Shero had to replace Lou, both were pretty rocky exits. Both looked good at the time but they both set the organization back.

My biggest issues with Shero, were the trades. Mueller, for 2 picks and Merrill. Henrique for injury prone Sammy V. The disastrous Grabner trade (with the Rangers). Going after PK, when he clearly was declining. It felt like the Devils were bleeding 2nd and 3rd round picks. Waiting for the organization to “weaponize” cap-space, got pretty old.

The draft, is too random to put blame (or praise) on the GM.

Lou had no say in the hiring of Shero as GM. This has never been publicly confirmed but this is what I have heard. I don't think there was ever much intention of keeping Shero and Lou around together, and Shero certainly never acted that way.

The consensus here at the time was that Shero was doing a good job…now in hindsight there seems to be recognition that he wasn’t all that great at all. I seem to recall a small minority of posters who recognized it in real time…and whose opinions were dismissed as nothing more than the bitter ramblings of Lou loyalists.

Shero was doing a good job. Things turn out differently when draft picks don't work out and certain trades don't work out. If the Devils had traded PK Subban for a 1st round pick at this deadline, people would honestly be speaking a lot differently about him. All it takes is that little.

Very few people are talking about how Shero traded a 2nd pairing D man for a guy who won the MVP. Taylor Hall played what, 65 more games in a Devils uniform? How do things go if he doesn't get that knee injury? We know how it played out, it could've played out a lot differently.

Could it be that many of the narratives that take hold as self-evident truths here are actually quite disputable? Hmmm.

Well if it weren't for bold truth-tellers like yourself, who aren't afraid to tell it like it is, so long as it's negative and/or contrarian, sure.

 

[My3Sons]

Lou had no say in the hiring of Shero as GM. This has never been publicly confirmed but this is what I have heard. I don't think there was ever much intention of keeping Shero and Lou around together, and Shero certainly never acted that way.



Shero was doing a good job. Things turn out differently when draft picks don't work out and certain trades don't work out. If the Devils had traded PK Subban for a 1st round pick at this deadline, people would honestly be speaking a lot differently about him. All it takes is that little.

Very few people are talking about how Shero traded a 2nd pairing D man for a guy who won the MVP. Taylor Hall played what, 65 more games in a Devils uniform? How do things go if he doesn't get that knee injury? We know how it played out, it could've played out a lot differently.



Well if it weren't for bold truth-tellers like yourself, who aren't afraid to tell it like it is, so long as it's negative and/or contrarian, sure.

I think Shero tried to have his cake and eat it too. They made the playoffs in 2018 and he probably thought the team was better than it was. Trades were meh for tht most part. Sure he got Hall but Mueller and Subban were misses. Thr criticism I have of thr Subban and Gusev trades is that I am convinced he made them to appease Hall. I also believe he didn’t have a great team building philosophy beyond just adding talent in general. All that said his draft approach was good but more picks would have helped. On balance not terrible but not great. At least he avoided long term anchor contracts.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Shero was doing a good job. Things turn out differently when draft picks don't work out and certain trades don't work out. If the Devils had traded PK Subban for a 1st round pick at this deadline, people would honestly be speaking a lot differently about him. All it takes is that little.

Very few people are talking about how Shero traded a 2nd pairing D man for a guy who won the MVP. Taylor Hall played what, 65 more games in a Devils uniform? How do things go if he doesn't get that knee injury? We know how it played out, it could've played out a lot differently.

Trading an additional player for a first round pick would suddenly make his tenure here better than it’s looked at now? I’m sorry that’s ridiculous. Focusing on a single tree while ignoring the entire forest.

I doubt Hall not getting injured makes a significant difference. We were never going to get a repeat mvp performance from him again, injury or no injury, and that’s the minimum we would have needed for his presence to have made this team much better than it was.

Well if it weren't for bold truth-tellers like yourself, who aren't afraid to tell it like it is, so long as it's negative and/or contrarian, sure.

You love bringing the snark, it oozes out of every post. I’m not a “truth teller” I just share my opinions. In contrast, the board consensus here is treated as if it’s the “truth”, rather than just another (more popular) opinion. That was my point. But it’s really telling how you frame that statement. If the opinion is negative, it automatically loses credibility here. Apparently we aren’t looking to have honest discussion, we are looking to develop positive narratives at all costs. At least, until the next guy/player comes along. Only then does it suddenly become acceptable to have a “negative/contrarian” opinion.

 

[devilsblood]

Shero was doing a good job. Things turn out differently when draft picks don't work out and certain trades don't work out. If the Devils had traded PK Subban for a 1st round pick at this deadline, people would honestly be speaking a lot differently about him. All it takes is that little.

Very few people are talking about how Shero traded a 2nd pairing D man for a guy who won the MVP. Taylor Hall played what, 65 more games in a Devils uniform? How do things go if he doesn't get that knee injury? We know how it played out, it could've played out a lot differently.

1)So basically if the Subban trade were actually a good trade instead of a bad trade, we'd all be speaking about it a lot differently? That's not very illuminating. I mean, there is a reason he wasn't traded for a 1st rounder(or a 2nd rounder, or maybe even a couple of 3rd's). And it would have taken more then a little for him to have been traded for a 1st.

2)The Hall trade does kind of sum up Shero's time here. This was a trade which in vacuum looks great, but it wasn't a trade that fit the timeline and ultimately just kicked the can down the road. And it was d-man for fwd. Shero brought in a bunch of fwd talent, and it's talent(not talking Hall here obviously) that will be the foundation for years to come. But a couple years after him leaving we are looking at possibly one d-man spot being held down by a Shero acquisition, and that likely will be in a bottom pair role. His best d-man acquisition was Lovejoy.

Trading an additional player for a first round pick would suddenly make his tenure here better than it’s looked at now? I’m sorry that’s ridiculous. Focusing on a single tree while ignoring the entire forest.

I doubt Hall not getting injured makes a significant difference. We were never one mvp piece away from being a significantly better team.



You love bringing the snark, it oozes out of every post. I’m not a “truth teller” I just share my opinions. In contrast, the board consensus here is treated as if it’s the “truth”, rather than just another (more popular) opinion. That was my point. But it’s really telling how you frame that statement. If the opinion is negative, it automatically loses credibility here. Apparently we aren’t looking to have honest discussion, we are looking to develop positive narratives at all costs. At least, until the next guy/player comes along. Then we can finally admit that oh, it wasn’t actually as great as we said all along.

Not to mention it's a "if my aunt had wheels she'd be a bike" scenario.

Not being able to trade Subban for a 1st(or even less) only reinforced that that trade didn't work.

 

[Triumph]

Trading an additional player for a first round pick would suddenly make his tenure here better than it’s looked at now? I’m sorry that’s ridiculous. Focusing on a single tree while ignoring the entire forest.

People are posting mild critiques here. They wish he would've focused on the defense more. But the most revelatory is people wishing he tanked harder, which is definitely something the board pushed back against during his tenure. What this should reveal to you is that people love past tanking and don't really like it in the present.

I doubt Hall not getting injured makes a significant difference. We were never going to get a repeat mvp performance from him again, injury or no injury, and that’s the minimum we would have needed for his presence to have made this team much better than it was.

....because the organization was totally hollowed out by the previous regime, and the goaltending completely imploded. Hall getting injured made a significant difference in the return he got in trade. Even post-injury when Hall simply cannot finish anymore he's still a top-line player.

You love bringing the snark, it oozes out of every post. I’m not a “truth teller” I just share my opinions. In contrast, the board consensus here is treated as if it’s the “truth”, rather than just another (more popular) opinion. That was my point. But it’s really telling how you frame that statement. If the opinion is negative, it automatically loses credibility here. Apparently we aren’t looking to have honest discussion, we are looking to develop positive narratives at all costs. At least, until the next guy/player comes along. Only then does it suddenly become acceptable to have a “negative/contrarian” opinion.

The board consensus is not treated like the truth, that's what someone who sees themselves as a maverick willing to cut against consensus believes. If the opinion is negative, it doesn't automatically lose credbility - what loses credbility is when people are by default negative.

 

[JimEIV]

Yeah the defense...phew. a GM honestly couldn't do a worse job even if he tried as Shero did with our defense.

There is just no denying that defense was completely neglected under Shero...it was always an after thought. On the ice and at the draft table Defenders were never a real priority

The defense adds were all terrible... every single one of them. The best, Vatanen, got us 184 injury plagued games with mixed results at the expense of fan favorite in Adam Henrique whose gone on to play 313 games, score 95 goals and 184 points.

Everything else including Subban was a dumpster dive...with almost no thought to fit or need. The defense was hodgepodge collection of spare parts during Shero's entire tenure.

The Subban trade in my opinion was particularly a head scratcher... before he stepped foot on New Jersey ice the discussions of his decline were on full swing...his skating had visibly deteriorated two years before he was traded to us and he was a cap pariah. How the hell do you give up 2 prospects and two second picks for a declining cap dump that you know you're only going to get at best a couple of decent years? It was a bad trade before Subban played a single shift here and just got worse with each stiff, choppy, slow skating stride PK took.


Couple that with largely ignoring D in the draft from 2015 through 2018...

Just a piss poor job

 

[Cheddabombs]

Shero did some good and he did some bad. I think the good probably outweighs the bad in a vacuum, and he did well with the hand he was dealt, but some of the aspects that sunk him had nothing to do with the situation he walked into.

 

[Bleedred]

My personal thoughts on Shero:

He was tied to his goalie metaphorically. He came into the organization to form this two headed hydra, and then the legend Lou Lams took off to Toronto (He also took a lot of the staff with him). Like Corey replacing Broduer, Shero had to replace Lou, both were pretty rocky exits. Both looked good at the time but they both set the organization back.

My biggest issues with Shero, were the trades. Mueller, for 2 picks and Merrill. Henrique for injury prone Sammy V. The disastrous Grabner trade (with the Rangers). Going after PK, when he clearly was declining. It felt like the Devils were bleeding 2nd and 3rd round picks. Waiting for the organization to “weaponize” cap-space, got pretty old.

The draft, is too random to put blame (or praise) on the GM.

I thought the Henrique for Vatanen trade was great at the time it happened, because we traded an NHL forward for an NHL defenseman, which was a greater need at that current time. Especially with how many minutes an already breaking down Andy Greene was playing. At least he had a good partner in Vatanen to help carry him, as he was already breaking down significantly by that point.

It only looks bad now because Henrique is still a productive player in the NHL and Vatanen (who is a year younger) just got old WAY TOO FAST. I never would have thought on the day that trade was made or even 2 years after it ''Yeah, Vatanen is probably gonna be out of the NHL in 1.5 years''. Henrique was also to be a UFA in the summer of 2019 and while his deal now doesn't look as bad as I really thought it would, I'm pretty glad we don't have Henrique making almost $6 million here for the next two years.

The Mueller trade looks bad now, but I think the Larsson for Hall trade really made the market whacky and the prices stupid for defensemen (particularly young ones) for a little after that trade was made and that was only a year later.

 

[Triumph]

Henrique was on waivers, he had an impressive season this year, but this is the life of a UFA-age player. It is a giant crapshoot if a middle six forward will retain his ability into his early 30s. Henrique did, but there was a time it looked like he would not.

 

[Bleedred]

Zacha was Conte's pick. Ray had just started the job of General Manager, and there's no way he could have planned for the draft yet.

Here's one area where I wonder if it's fair or not to blame Shero as far as Zacha goes.

Zacha was not eligible to play in the AHL in the 16-17 season. He was only eligible for the NHL or to stay in juniors. At the time I remember the consensus being ''Zacha has nothing more to prove in the OHL, so he should be here this season''.

But because he made the NHL in 16-17 as a 19 year old, he goes to UFA a year earlier at age 26 (next year) and not age 27.

If Zacha had been able to wait one more year before making his NHL debut, does he become a better player? Is he a better player right now? I'm not sure.

Does Shero deserve criticism for allowing him to play in the NHL in 16-17? I'm still not sure.

 

[Bleedred]

Henrique was on waivers, he had an impressive season this year, but this is the life of a UFA-age player. It is a giant crapshoot if a middle six forward will retain his ability into his early 30s. Henrique did, but there was a time it looked like he would not.

I was all for letting Henrique go as early as the 2017 offseaon or maybe even late in the 16-17 season. My argument was that he won't be worth his next contract and his shooting percentage will likely not be nearly 15% into his 30's. My reasons for not retaining Henrique were exactly why I don't wanna retain Zacha or have anything to do with him going forward or his next contract. I remember predicting his next deal would be $6 million a year for 5-6 years, but it turned out to be I think $5.7 million for 5 years?

For some reason Henrique was on pace to have a career high in shots on goal this last year at 31-32 years old. He had three seasons with more shots on goal (he was one behind his third highest total this year in 24 fewer games played) but he played at least 80 games in all of those seasons, whereas he only played 58 this past year.

 

[Guadana]

1)So basically if the Subban trade were actually a good trade instead of a bad trade, we'd all be speaking about it a lot differently? That's not very illuminating. I mean, there is a reason he wasn't traded for a 1st rounder(or a 2nd rounder, or maybe even a couple of 3rd's). And it would have taken more then a little for him to have been traded for a 1st.

2)The Hall trade does kind of sum up Shero's time here. This was a trade which in vacuum looks great, but it wasn't a trade that fit the timeline and ultimately just kicked the can down the road. And it was d-man for fwd. Shero brought in a bunch of fwd talent, and it's talent(not talking Hall here obviously) that will be the foundation for years to come. But a couple years after him leaving we are looking at possibly one d-man spot being held down by a Shero acquisition, and that likely will be in a bottom pair role. His best d-man acquisition was Lovejoy.


Not to mention it's a "if my aunt had wheels she'd be a bike" scenario.

Not being able to trade Subban for a 1st(or even less) only reinforced that that trade didn't work.

How you can ask a better acquisition than Lovejoy?

Zacha was Conte's pick. Ray had just started the job of General Manager, and there's no way he could have planned for the draft yet.

Its a Sheros pick. Scouts bring you profiles on the table and gm decide what he wil doing with it. If he was a smarter builder, he did draft defenseman. I didn't ask Barzel etc

 

[devilsblood]

Here's one area where I wonder if it's fair or not to blame Shero as far as Zacha goes.

Zacha was not eligible to play in the AHL in the 16-17 season. He was only eligible for the NHL or to stay in juniors. At the time I remember the consensus being ''Zacha has nothing more to prove in the OHL, so he should be here this season''.

But because he made the NHL in 16-17 as a 19 year old, he goes to UFA a year earlier at age 26 (next year) and not age 27.

If Zacha had been able to wait one more year before making his NHL debut, does he become a better player? Is he a better player right now? I'm not sure.

Does Shero deserve criticism for allowing him to play in the NHL in 16-17? I'm still not sure.

I think without a doubt. First off Zacha wasn't very good that season, just didn't look ready, so that's a good argument right off that bat. Secondly the team stunk and after not playing well with the top line guys, we stuck him with some awful linemates. That's lousy development.

Then factor in the mental aspect, which most of us think is a big part of Zacha's problems. Putting a young guy with confidence issues into a bad situation? That doesn't make sense.

Now we did see Hughes, who probably wasn't ready, and then struggled in the pro's, quickly turn it around. And we've also seen Ty Smith get that extra year in the juniors only to come to the pro's and struggle. So we've seen guys succeed on a simialr path as Zacha(though Hughes was never stuck with such low level of linemates Zacha was) and we've seen guys struggle taking the path we now think may have been more beneficial for Zacha

I mean who here thinks Holtz's strong season in Utica is not better for him then if he played in the NHL all season putting up the results he was putting up?

 

[Bleedred]

The Subban trade in my opinion was particularly a head scratcher... before he stepped foot on New Jersey ice the discussions of his decline were on full swing...his skating had visibly deteriorated two years before he was traded to us and he was a cap pariah. How the hell do you give up 2 prospects and two second picks for a declining cap dump that you know you're only going to get at best a couple of decent years? It was a bad trade before Subban played a single shift here and just got worse with each stiff, choppy, slow skating stride PK took.

Just a mild nitpick here, but come on now. We didn't give up TWO prospects for Subban. One prospect (who has went on to not do much of anything at the NHL level) and 24 year old Steve Santini, who had already played 114 NHL games to ASTRONOMICALLY POOR results. Not to mention that his contract was bought out after a year by Nashville. He's since played 2 games for Nashville that first year and then 3 games with St. Louis the next year.

Santini was nothing more than our very own cap dump to send to Nashville in exchange for our part in taking back their cap dump.

Albeit, Santini's deal was also MUCH cheaper, but even the broken down 33 year old 2022 version of Subban is significantly better than the 24 year old 2019 version of Santini.

 

[devilsblood]

How you can ask a better acquisition than Lovejoy?


Its a Sheros pick. Scouts bring you profiles on the table and gm decide what he wil doing with it. If he was a smarter builder, he did draft defenseman. I didn't ask Barzel etc

I've been harping this since midseason, but a Lovejoy type is the perfect acquisition for this offseason.

But that type player, even if it worked perfectly, would be the 4th or 5th best d-man acquisition Fitz has made.

Edit: And really Barzal, given his skating looks so much like what Shero was looking for. But I do put Zacha on Conte, I remember Shero saying Conte said something like, you have to draft this guy, so I think Conte had Zacha way higher then Barzal, and Shero as a GM, a new GM less, is not going to overrule a hard opinion like that.

 

[devilsblood]

Even for as ineffective as Santini is as a d-man in the league, he has still outlived the majority Shero d-man acquisitions.

Merrill too.

Kind of crazy really. Vats, Mueller, Lovejoy, Moore. Basically, all out of the league. PK seemingly hanging on by a thread.

Butcher I guess is better then Santini but we had to give away a pick just to get rid of him.

Smith not looking great. Bernard was never signed. None of the 2017 7th round d-men have been signed (zaitsev still possible I guess), not that we should expect much out of 7th rounders, but maybe don't wait till the 7th round to draft d-men if you know the chances are slim.

Shero's handling of the defense was abysmal in hindsight.

 

[Bleedred]

Even for as ineffective as Santini is as a d-man in the league, he has still outlived the majority Shero d-man acquisitions.

Merrill too.

Kind of crazy really. Vats, Mueller, Lovejoy, Moore. Basically, all out of the league. PK seemingly hanging on by a thread.

Butcher I guess is better then Santini but we had to give away a pick just to get rid of him.

Smith not looking great. Bernard was never signed. None of the 2017 7th round d-men have been signed (zaitsev still possible I guess), not that we should expect much out of 7th rounders, but maybe don't wait till the 7th round to draft d-men if you know the chances are slim.

Shero's handling of the defense was abysmal in hindsight.

When you say outlived, do you mean played an NHL game more recently? Or played in North America more recently?

Moore played 7 games in the NHL this year, Santini didn't play any.

Mueller last played in the NHL the season before Santini's most recent game though. Vatanen last played the same season of Santini's most recent NHL game.

Oh, I see, Santini did actually play a playoff game this year for St. Louis back in the first round. I forgot all about that. I remember giggling about it back when it happened, but I forgot all about it.

Most of these players are older than Santini though. Mueller and Butcher are the same ageLovejoy retired at 34 years old after his last year with us, where he finished with Dallas.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I don't have time to read all these 10 paragraph posts, but I'll say my brief opinion which is that Shero will likely never get enough credit for how well he managed the Devils in his short stint here. He made them a more competitive team and added new exciting players without mortgaging the future.

 

[Oneiro]

If you keep Larsson, Henrique and Merrill, you have no tradable assets beyond picks and you are signing rich mid-tier UFA deals - Cammalleri, Clowe, etc. all over again. Your best offensive players are Coleman and Henrique, neither of whom has ever hit 60 pts. And if the drafting stays the same as it had from '04-15, then you're even more hopeless. Purgatory team, at best.

Shero walked onto a team that was losing games 1-0. Just think about what needs to happen when you are in that scenario and there are two bottom six prospects (Coleman, Wood) and everyone else of value is on the NHL roster and collectively can't score at a league average rate.

I think criticism of his D strategy is totally valid - Moore, Subban, etc. were pretty inappropriate for a team trying to get younger. I would've liked to have seen more Lovejoy/Boyle kind of deals, though I suspect they don't present themselves often to rebuilding teams - those guys usually are trying for a cup.

But he brought in Hall and Palmieri and we're starting to see some of the picks come onto to the team. Again, think on how many players have broken out at age 25-26 this year and show some patience with these initial Castron picks coming in.

 

[BurntToast]

I was never a fan of Sammy V. His offense from the backend was nice but he never outscored his defensive flaws. The Ducks could shelter him, but once he was elevated on the Devils, he was exposed. He was traded for his upside, but his injuries derailed him. Crazy to think he never played a full 82.

Vats doesn’t deserve credit for the Devils, making the playoffs. The stars were Kinkaid and Hall and there isn’t any proof that the Devils’ wouldn’t of made it, had they kept Henrique. There isn’t a direct correlation between Vats and wing.

 

[JimEIV]

I don't have time to read all these 10 paragraph posts, but I'll say my brief opinion which is that Shero will likely never get enough credit for how well he managed the Devils in his short stint here. He made them a more competitive team and added new exciting players without mortgaging the future.

He made them a more competitive team? How? You have to completely ignore the record to make that statement.

2016 - 20th best in the league with 38 wins *this is Shero start...with the expansion level team and no assets that Lou left... except for the Jagr draft picks that got Palmieri.

2017- 4th worst team in the league
2018- 15th best team in the league 44 wins
2019- 3rd worst team in the league
2020- 6th worst team in the league. This is Shero finish
2021 -3rd worst team in the league
2022 - 5th worst team in the league


2018 - was barely better than 2016. The 2018 team won 44 games on the Hall effort. The 2016 team won 38 games on an excellent defensive effort from Greene, Larsson and Schneider.

The team has been going backwards since 2016 in terms of wins with the 2018 exception...

If you want to argue the team is better poised for the future...sure(though we've been hearing this for a long time and future still hasn't come) but Shero absolutely did not make this team more competitive. Quite the opposite.

 

[njdevils1982]

Even for as ineffective as Santini is as a d-man in the league, he has still outlived the majority Shero d-man acquisitions.

Merrill too.

Kind of crazy really. Vats, Mueller, Lovejoy, Moore. Basically, all out of the league. PK seemingly hanging on by a thread.

Butcher I guess is better then Santini but we had to give away a pick just to get rid of him.

Smith not looking great. Bernard was never signed. None of the 2017 7th round d-men have been signed (zaitsev still possible I guess), not that we should expect much out of 7th rounders, but maybe don't wait till the 7th round to draft d-men if you know the chances are slim.

Shero's handling of the defense was abysmal in hindsight.

about butcher......i wonder when the "future considerations" in the trade will happen

2021-07-28

Devils

• future considerations (?)

• Will Butcher • 2022 fifth round pick (?-?)

trade with Sabres

i remember being 'meh' about butcher before him sitting out a ton of games

but when he returned, man i dont remember seeing such piss poor defending from anyone......he was absolute f***ing garbage when he got back in the lineup.....i recall ripping on him every game and couldnt wait to see him gone

he was awful....past his due date, absolute zero d zone awareness.....good riddance

i hope he's enjoying the shit hole that is buffalo

 

[JimEIV]

One of the things that has always struck me as odd is for all the emphasis on skating and speed we added some pretty shitty skating defensemen during Shero's time. Moore was a very good skater but Vatanen, Butcher, Subban and now Smith have been some of the crappiest D skaters we've seen. Especially for all being 6'0'' and under.

 

[devilsblood]

He made them a more competitive team? How? You have to completely ignore the record to make that statement.

2016 - 20th best in the league with 38 wins *this is Shero start...with the expansion level team and no assets that Lou left... except for the Jagr draft picks that got Palmieri.

2017- 4th worst team in the league
2018- 15th best team in the league 44 wins
2019- 3rd worst team in the league
2020- 6th worst team in the league. This is Shero finish
2021 -3rd worst team in the league
2022 - 5th worst team in the league


2018 - was barely better than 2016. The 2018 team won 44 games on the Hall effort. The 2016 team won 38 games on an excellent defensive effort from Greene, Larsson and Schneider.

The team has been going backwards since 2016 in terms of wins with the 2018 exception...

If you want to argue the team is better poised for the future...sure(though we've been hearing this for a long time and future still hasn't come) but Shero absolutely did not make this team more competitive. Quite the opposite.

Ya, he made them more competitive relatively quickly with the team making the playoffs in 2018, but it quickly fell apart, with Shero not able to make moves to continue that success.

 

[devilsblood]

If you keep Larsson, Henrique and Merrill, you have no tradable assets beyond picks and you are signing rich mid-tier UFA deals - Cammalleri, Clowe, etc. all over again. Your best offensive players are Coleman and Henrique, neither of whom has ever hit 60 pts. And if the drafting stays the same as it had from '04-15, then you're even more hopeless. Purgatory team, at best.

Shero walked onto a team that was losing games 1-0. Just think about what needs to happen when you are in that scenario and there are two bottom six prospects (Coleman, Wood) and everyone else of value is on the NHL roster and collectively can't score at a league average rate.

I think criticism of his D strategy is totally valid - Moore, Subban, etc. were pretty inappropriate for a team trying to get younger. I would've liked to have seen more Lovejoy/Boyle kind of deals, though I suspect they don't present themselves often to rebuilding teams - those guys usually are trying for a cup.

But he brought in Hall and Palmieri and we're starting to see some of the picks come onto to the team. Again, think on how many players have broken out at age 25-26 this year and show some patience with these initial Castron picks coming in.

You can trade Lars and Rico, but instead of doing it for similar age players, he could have traded them for longer term assets. Instead he got players who helped near term but a couple years later were traded again for pics. So in essence it was kicking the can down the road.

And while we did get something substantial for Hall, we got a pretty minimal return for Vats.

Merrill is more symbolic in that he gave up an asset for Mueller, which basically squeezed out Merrill. Fast fwd a couple years and Merrill is still in the league while Mueller is gone. Just poor player evaluation.