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Player Discussion Sheldon Keefe - All encompassing galaxy brain discussion

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Dreakmur said:
How many multi person strategies are involved in wrestling? Hockey coaching requires planning and strategizing, as well a managing egos and accountability.

Don’t confuse the impact of coaches in individual sports to the coaches in team sports.
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Fair enough, except the circus of coaches who have little control over the ClubHouse is long.

I remember Carlyle was here and he basically couldn't bench or demand Kessel play defense. In fact, if I recall correctly Phil basically just said at practice he wasn't doing it. Outright dismissed any effort to make him play a two way game.

Randy was clearly defeated in public and it was leaked that he said that "MLSE doesn't care, they just want him to keep scoring and sell tickets" or something to that effect. I'm not even sure Caryle denied it when it was reported in the papers.

Yes, Babcock pulled a dirty move on Marner, unacceptable in todays society. He did demand accountability though and probably propelled Hymans career for one. Once Dubas handed the RFAs the keys to the vault and Babcock was ousted, the same old circus was coming to town, it didn't matter who the coach was.

I don't believe the narratives about the rentals who didn't re-sign. I just think they didn't believe in this core most of the time, didn't want to play for this core.

Now, this offseason was the golden opportunity to make the moves. I've been consistent in saying the Matthews is the only player from the core, and that extends to five players; that was worth the long term large money. He could retire a Leaf and have it all because he seems to care. He is like a work dog who needs to have a strong pack. This is why he was dominant down the stretch with Bert and Domi.

Sundin was extremely loyal to the Leafs and we tried to push him out of town. I despised the management for trying to do that to a guy who never complained when he played with 3rd line wingers and always showed up when it mattered. Matthews could retire a Leaf and with the right team he could have a ring or two. Sundin fell short, lacking the skill this team has but Leafs always built playoff ready lineups.

Regardless, whoever replaces Keefe when the time come, he MUST be a hard ass and in full control. This is also important if the Leafs are looking to add such players to their roster. The Boosh, along with Benoit and McCabb are prime examples. These types love a hard ass coach because they feed off of effort and sacrifice. Seeing a coach ensure that everyone does the same works for them.

I don't care who that coach is as long as they are given full support by management, no more of this corporate hierarchy.

In the end, if the players aren't willing to sacrifice and figure it out, none of it matters. They need to shed salary and bring in the right types who want to go through the wall.
 
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thebestnic said:
That interview last night was bleak. When your coach acts like he has no answer...
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There is no answer when your stars can't perform. Period. How many millions tied up in Marner, Matthews, JT, Nylander and Reilly? Yet, they go 1 for 13 or 14 on the PP?

This isn't coaching, this is players who can't perform when the pressure arises.

Mario won two Cups and dominated when the playoffs came, pushed on by his equally driven teammate Jagr. He scores the game winner in Canada Cup against the Russians (want to talk about pressure, back then this was it).

Crosby has multiple Cups and is still a PPG player at his age. He has a Golden Goal in OT during the Olympics for a gold medal. The world wide olympic games! That is performing under pressure. He thrives on it and he WILL rise to the ocassion more often than not. He is the prototype, for all the dismissive opinions people have of him.

Let's be honest here and stop passing the buck. Do you think Montgomery has some special skill that makes Marchand an 8 point playoff player throughg 4 games?

No. We ALL know Marchand, regardless of how much we despise him will show up when it matters most. He is a 35 year old who wills himself to win.

The players arguing on the bench is a positive to me. I guarantee you Matthews wants to win badly. Especially if his peer McDavid goes deep with a team I would argue has worse defense than this Leafs team today. This is why I said Matty is the guy to build around and with the right pack they can keep his eyes on what is needed.


Check out this article, even Bruins coach is shocked by how quiet Leafs stars have been:


ven Bruins Coach is "Very Surprised" By How Little Offense Leafs' Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares Have Provided​



This series isn't quite over. But with how ineffective Toronto's offense has been, it's starting to feel that way.

Even Bruins coach Jim Montgomery can't quite believe it.

"Very surprised," said Montgomery. "That being said, we didn’t think that if we allowed Toronto to score it would be a good series for us."
 
Leafsfan74 said:
There is no answer when your stars can't perform. Period. How many millions tied up in Marner, Matthews, JT, Nylander and Reilly? Yet, they go 1 for 13 or 14 on the PP?

This isn't coaching, this is players who can't perform when the pressure arises.
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It's both, which makes the decision to stick by this loser coach for so many years particularly baffling. Coaches are the easiest part of the team to replace.
 
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Maybe it’s just me, but his constant line juggling drives me up the f***ing wall. Year after year, he is always f***ing around and guys can’t get into a rhythm, even with everyone healthy.

It’s no wonder they look lost when the playoffs roll around and the game tightens up.

Don’t get me wrong, this is on the players but this guy just seems to get outcoached every year.
 
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We're back baby

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Suntouchable13 said:
Would you bark up the Quenneville tree? Or get someone like Gallant? I think Gallant could be a great hire.
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No thanks on Gallant. He seems to have a short shelf life where he gets 1-2 good seasons then overstays his welcome and gets exposed / tuned out.

Q, Berube or Mike Sullivan if available should be priorities.

Just Rude said:
Maybe it’s just me, but his constant line juggling drives me up the f***ing wall. Year after year, he is always f***ing around and guys can’t get into a rhythm, even with everyone healthy.

It’s no wonder they look lost when the playoffs roll around and the game tightens up.

Don’t get me wrong, this is on the players but this guy just seems to get outcoached every year.
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In a nutshell, especially on home ice, he desperately chases matchups instead of just rolling his lines and letting them play.
 
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Suntouchable13 said:
Would you bark up the Quenneville tree? Or get someone like Gallant? I think Gallant could be a great hire.
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Quenneville should be at the top of the list. Easily the best candidate and it's not even close but the supplementary issues are a serious hurdle. A lot would have to clear up on that end.

After that, it's best to look at someone like Berube. Gallant and Boudreau will probably get interviews but I think they might be in the next tier of options.

You also have Brind'Amour who is expiring in Carolina although I doubt he leaves. They could try wooing him with a huge contract offer if they feel he's the best option.
 
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You can't take the cup away from him but other than that Berube has only been out of the first round once. Maybe I'm absolutely crazy but I think I would rather grab a coach that has made it to the third round multiple multiple times but never further than a coach who has won the cup but other than that one year hasn't been able to do much else.
 
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Just Rude said:
Maybe it’s just me, but his constant line juggling drives me up the f***ing wall. Year after year, he is always f***ing around and guys can’t get into a rhythm, even with everyone healthy.

It’s no wonder they look lost when the playoffs roll around and the game tightens up.

Don’t get me wrong, this is on the players but this guy just seems to get outcoached every year.
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It's not just you. The guy doesn't even trust his own coaching.

First sign of urgency it's 'throw practice out the window. We gotta try something new.'

They really did get the polar opposite of Babcock.
 
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crump said:
I can see the narrative starting already. “Keefe stopped Matthews from getting 70”, just like “Keefe stopped Marner from getting 100 points.” I’m not a big Keefe fan. In fact I wanted him fired after the playoffs last year. But Keefe as a coach, can only control so much. If players aren’t hitting milestones before game 82, then it’s on them not Keefe. Keefe can’t move Kampf legs to the bench when the game doesn’t allow it at that moment. Ridiculous.

While I’m here, who would you rather have right now Torts or Keefe?
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who cares if AM got 70 this is a team sport and you win or lose for the team not just one player if he could get 70 goals good but the team don't lose games just for one player
 
Leafsfan74 said:
He can't make Matthews, Marner, JT or Nylander score, have any of you played organized sports?

I was a National qualifying wrestler in H.S. I never once lost or won a match because of my coach. Sometimes the motivation of fans or my teammates pushed me through, but never a coach. You do your work before the match to prepare, then its up to you to perform.

Keefe will be canned as will Shanny, In the end it was the players who caused the pink slips. Anyone in management who lobbied for these massive contracts to remain on the books the one responsible for this eight year long fiasco/league wide embarrassment.

If you wear a Leafs hat around town nowadays you surely are mocked. The association is far worse than just "we tried but lost again".
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Exactly - the coach does his job before the match to prepare.

But what if he doesn't?

What if your coach never taught you the proper use of leverage, or explained hydration? What if the only strategy he taught you was to grab your opponent's leg and hold on for dear life?

I'm glad you had a good coach. I wish the current Leafs could say the same.
 
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I think Berube is the answer. He's waiting on the Leafs or else he'd probably have take the Sens job by now.

MLSE will never hire Q, they don't want to deal with that circus for years to come.
 
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