Are you comparing the stress on the body of golfing to playing in the NHL? Lol. Also, Montreal would much rather have Weber play a few more years. He’s still a very good top 4 rhs D. Maybe think before you speak.
News: Shea Weber likely retiring/LTIRetiring
- Thread starter Filthy Dangles
- Start date
If he has all those injuries that would affect his golf swing, ever played it...the swing speed and torque that can be created with the body is no joke.
I like how you just passed right over Seabrook and his wakeboarding...cause that is impact on the body, like hitting cement when going quick enough on anything behind a boat when you eat shit.
Either way, we see this a ton, for everyone except the Canucks and Luongo...
Luongo had some injury issues in the back end of his career but were any of them to the point where he could actually ride the LTIR express? In his open letter to the fans, it sounds like he was still physically capable of playing but it became so laborious that he decided to retire.
Luongo's Open Letter to the Fans
Explain to me how Weber not being able to play is cap circumvention? Are you saying every time a player can’t continue their career and has to go on LTIR it’s cap circumvention?
Boondock
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Luongo's hip were shot, he could have LTIR'd but that would have cost the Panthers money so he retired instead so the hit went against the Canucks. In exchange Florida offered him a front office position.
Luongo himself said he could have played but didn’t want to go through the rigours of getting in shape for an nhl season. Regardless , Vancouver could have avoided the situation by not trading him in the first place
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Doing physical sports for fun once in a while makes you physically ready to play hockey 82+ games a year at the highest level in the world.
Makes sense.
…..Pronger, Hosa, Hornton, Clarkson, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Seabrook…….?
Im sure there are more I’m missing. But yeah maybe Weber will retire giving up millions of dollars in the process just cause some people want to see the chaos of Nashville getting screwed over.
Boondock
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All those players LTIR'd - Luongo just retired strapping the Canucks with the recapture penalty
And?
I realize it can happen. That doesn’t mean it’s going to. If Weber can’t play again he will collect the millions left on his contract rather than retire.
Actually I have little to no interest in the effect on Nashville. I’d just rather Montreal not be strapped with dealing with $7.85m of LTIR for 5 years if they don’t have too. My guess is he’ll definitely be on LTIR this coming season and then they’ll reassess next offseason
He isn’t going to give up millions screwing over the team that drafted and developed him. If he can’t play he will stay on LTIR. That’s it.
Boondock
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I replied to why would he retire and not LTIR to collect his millions - my response was Luongo, because he chose to retire and not collect his millions. Not sure why this wanted any back and forth.
And I just pointed out the vastly superior number of players who didn’t retire and took the millions of dollars left on their contracts. I’m not sure why this is difficult
You sound upset that Vancouver is paying 3m of cap space for Luongo to scout goalie prospects in Florida.
A couple of years ago, in an almost identical discussion to this one, someone dug up the old cap numbers. I recall that of the four seasons in which Weber played in Nashville under the matched offer sheet, the Preds were under the cap by more than the difference between his actual compensation for that year and the annualized cap hit for three of those seasons. For the other season (Weber’s last in Nashville) they were a cap team and gained a little more than $4 million annualized in relief from Weber’s front-loaded contract. All of that was due to swapping out Seth Jones (on an ELC) for Ryan Johansen.
They had the opportunity to circumvent the cap, and did not do so.
montreal
Go Habs Go
no one knows what he will do but for a guy that has made over 130M in the NHL, who says he wouldn't give up 1M per year for the last 3 years of his contract so that he doesn't cause problems for the team that he just went to the cup finals with. If LITR ends up giving the Habs issues, he may want to help out his current team and just give up those last 3 years. It's not like he'll need the money
Exactly plus he is still under contract which means all treatments, surgeries, doctor visits and physical therapy is covered by the team. If he retired outright he would then be responsible for those needs.
Tysonson3
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Check how many of the years that he played for them under contract that they would have actually exceeded the cap if his hit was equal to his salary. Over the entire time summed up they were around 4 million “over” the cap. Nashville got virtually no cap advantage due to this contract that was signed in the hope that a small market would not be able to afford it.
It’s also worth remembering the context of that matched offer sheet. In 2007, the team was less than a decade old, but through slowly building the team around a strong defense, the Preds had made the playoffs every season since the lockout, and were finally assembling offensive talents to get them over the hump — Kariya, Foppa, Hartnell, Radulov. Attendance was near the bottom of the league, but stable and gradually increasing. Then the team owner, Craig Leopold, started entertaining offers from series of sleazy prospective buyers who planned to move the team (to Kansas City, to Hamilton, maybe to Houston). When guys like Boots Del Biaggio and Jim Balsillie were exposed as dirtbags that the NHL wanted nothing to do with, Leopold told Poile to cut the payroll to the cap floor. Out went Hartnell, Kimmo Timonen, Kariya, Peter Forsberg, and Tomas Vokoun, and Radulov soon fled for the KHL (and because the NHL had let the transfer agreement expire, the Preds lost all rights to him).
Fortunately, a new local ownership group took over from Leopold, but all the Preds really had left in 2008 were a few promising young players on the defensive side — Ryan Suter, Shea Weber, and Pekka Rinne. Weber, 23 at the time, was voted captain. Attendance plummeted, as the team missed the playoffs. But over the next few years, the team was rebuilt, and by 2011 matched their pre-fire sale point total as they finished 2nd in their division and actually won a playoff series for the first time. More importantly, support for the team went from a niche following to being embraced by the city, selling out games and building a fan culture unique in the league, with crowd chants that mixed the spirit of college hockey or European soccer with Lower Broad honkytonk rowdiness, and burgeoning traditions like the catfish toss and the 3rd period TV timeout ovation.
The big concern for the front office was the impending expiry of bridge deals for their terrific blueline pair of Suter and Weber. During the 2011-12 season, Suter (imminently eligible for a UFA contract) assured Poile that he would settle down to business with the team at the end of the season, giving all indication that he wanted to stay. But when the season ended, Suter shocked everyone by signing a 13 year, $100 million contract with Minnesota, giving the Predators no opportunity to match. Then Philadelphia looked to drop a second bombshell on the team and its fans with a huge 14 year, $110 million offer sheet, frontloaded in a way to be as painful as possible to a team with limited cash on hand and a trickle of a revenue stream that basically kept the lights on.
Poile knew that losing both of his star defensemen in one season could be the death blow to a team which barely survived the gutting of its roster just a few years before. So he went to the ownership group hat in hand to ask for the cash to keep Weber — some $26 million up front. They agreed that the survival of the team depended upon proving to their fans that they could keep star players. I remember the season ticket drive following the matched offer sheet — the Preds explicitly told fans that their generous support was needed to pay for Weber. That’s not a problem that many NHL teams have, but it forged an even closer bond between the city and the team, and from then on, the Preds were an integral part of the fabric of the city. The whole organization changed after that. The team began a project of building skating facilities in different parts of the city, including immigrant-heavy Antioch, with a practice sheet for the Predators and additional sheets for youth leagues and public skating.
Frankly, the Predators had no choice but to match the Flyers’ offer sheet. But it is important to note that the offer sheet was frontloaded not as a means of cap circumvention, but to inflict as much financial pain as possible on a team struggling to stay in business. The hurdle that the Predators were forced to overcome was for the team to spend more money than they had on hand or could access without great difficulty. This was an example of a big wealthy team (owned by Comcast) bullying a small market, cash-poor team (owned by an LLC with a dozen mostly local investors, led by a guy who made his money disposing of medical waste). The cap circumvention penalty was not a consideration put forward by anyone at the time because it was frankly laughable that the Predators would ever be able to spend enough money on salaries to approach the salary cap. And in fact, during Weber’s four years with the Predators playing under the offer sheet deal, they only ever approached the salary cap for the last few months prior to the trade, a minuscule benefit that happened only as a consequence of a one-for-one player trade.
Nashville won’t be penalized one penny for cap circumvention, because (a) to punish them for matching an offer sheet designed to blow apart the team’s business side would be against the spirit of the cap circumvention rules, and (b) any benefit that accrued from the contingency of the structure of the contract was negligible, and the punishment would be vastly disproportionate to any transgression. Moreover, the league looked the other way when other teams who clearly circumvented the cap escaped using the LTIR loophole, so penalizing the Predators would be egregiously arbitrary.
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vandymeer13
Registered User
The reason why contracts should be capped at 7 years for everyone. Even allowing 8 to resign is to much. Those teams should all be punished
Tysonson3
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Nailed it on the head. Anyone looking for a sensible answer that explains the whole situation can refer to this post.
JustaFinnishGuy
Joonas Donskoi avi but not a SEA fan ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Let's see, and tally up the benefit the Preds illegally gained.
I scowered the internet and only came up with stats from capfriendly and some other site and only lost the 2012-13 season.
Random stats from a random site I found from google, fromthisseat
13-14: Benefit 6 142 857 dollars, remaining cap at 4 856 543. Actual benefit of 1 286 314.
14-15: Benefit 6 142 857 dollars, remaining cap 12 887 856, no benefit.
Capfriendly:
15-16: Benefit 6 142 857 dollars, and the Predators had 9 396 695 left to use at seasons end, they did not benefit. They would have had 3 253 838 left.
16-17: Benefit 4 142 857, remaining cap was 3 570 699. Actual benefit of 572 158 over the cap.
17-18: Benefit 4 142 857, remaining cap was 2 883 956 Actual benefit of 1 257 901 over the cap.
After that it's useless to make the comparison as the benefit is negative already, and it would only lessen the actual benefit, according to the excel sheet above.
So, actual benefits from the contract come up to 3 116 373 dollars without the initial contract year benefits from 2012-13.
That's what the Nashville Predators has benefitted from that contract, up to this point, and that benefit is already negated by that excel sheet above, which was made for this situation.
That's the type of "unfair advantage" the Predators actually gained on all the other woeful teams who didn't get to choose between both of their top defenders leaving and saving one but having to give them a shitton of money upfront and term the Preds probably weren't going to offer otherwise
People really think the Preds of 2013 are the Preds of 2021 or something because that team wasn't all that stable in the grand scheme of things.
I scowered the internet and only came up with stats from capfriendly and some other site and only lost the 2012-13 season.
Random stats from a random site I found from google, fromthisseat
13-14: Benefit 6 142 857 dollars, remaining cap at 4 856 543. Actual benefit of 1 286 314.
14-15: Benefit 6 142 857 dollars, remaining cap 12 887 856, no benefit.
Capfriendly:
15-16: Benefit 6 142 857 dollars, and the Predators had 9 396 695 left to use at seasons end, they did not benefit. They would have had 3 253 838 left.
16-17: Benefit 4 142 857, remaining cap was 3 570 699. Actual benefit of 572 158 over the cap.
17-18: Benefit 4 142 857, remaining cap was 2 883 956 Actual benefit of 1 257 901 over the cap.
After that it's useless to make the comparison as the benefit is negative already, and it would only lessen the actual benefit, according to the excel sheet above.
So, actual benefits from the contract come up to 3 116 373 dollars without the initial contract year benefits from 2012-13.
That's what the Nashville Predators has benefitted from that contract, up to this point, and that benefit is already negated by that excel sheet above, which was made for this situation.
That's the type of "unfair advantage" the Predators actually gained on all the other woeful teams who didn't get to choose between both of their top defenders leaving and saving one but having to give them a shitton of money upfront and term the Preds probably weren't going to offer otherwise
People really think the Preds of 2013 are the Preds of 2021 or something because that team wasn't all that stable in the grand scheme of things.
I’m confused? In the first four years Nashville paid $14MM each year to webs, his salary cap was $7.8M? 6.2x4=24.8?
Legionnaire11
Registered User
See the post exactly above yours. Paying a player more than their cap hit doesn't necessarily create a cap advantage.
