Prospect Info: Sharks Prospect Info & Discussion Megathread XXI: "New, improved, and wayyyy too much info" Edition

[hohosaregood]

Toffoli is a great call-out that I hadn't even thought of. He's really slow but he's extremely smart and strong, has great hands and a high-end shot. You could include Wennberg and Goodrow in the "not a burner, but smart and strong" archetype that Grier went after in the offseason.

Are we just trying to build a team of Pavelskis?

I actually look at Vegas's forward group a lot in this regard. Outside of Eichel, they don't really have a fast group but they have a lot of big, strong guys who understand body positioning and leverage. So when they get into those 1v1 battles, they know how to initiate contact where they can win by skill and small ice quickness like with Hertl, Stone or Roy or they win with strength like Kolesar or Barbashev.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I actually look at Vegas's forward group a lot in this regard. Outside of Eichel, they don't really have a fast group but they have a lot of big, strong guys who understand body positioning and leverage. So when they get into those 1v1 battles, they know how to initiate contact where they can win by skill and small ice quickness like with Hertl, Stone or Roy or they win with strength like Kolesar or Barbashev.

Yup, exactly what I was thinking. IMO you don't need to be a burner to be an effective forechecker if you are strong and smart like Pavelski, Toffoli, and Wennberg types. Hertl is a good example.

I also don't think skating speed and team speed are necessarily related; if you can connect a bunch of short and accurate passes, you can play fast without skating fast.

Skating speed is both the most fixable and least important standout attribute for forwards, while you want a mobile defense. Building a team that increases the pace is far harder to do than one that decreases the pace of play and even with immense talent the former is less consistent.

I'm not suggesting Halttunen has to be a burner, I'm saying he needs to get to NHL playing speed. It's a low bar, but he's significantly below it right now.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Yup, exactly what I was thinking. IMO you don't need to be a burner to be an effective forechecker if you are strong and smart like Pavelski, Toffoli, and Wennberg types. Hertl is a good example.

I also don't think skating speed and team speed are necessarily related; if you can connect a bunch of short and accurate passes, you can play fast without skating fast.



I'm not suggesting Halttunen has to be a burner, I'm saying he needs to get to NHL playing speed. It's a low bar, but he's significantly below it right now.

I remember seeing reports he struggled to maintain a healthy diet being away from home and was like a kid in a candy store for the first part of last year. He is not just tall but thick and definitely has room to get leaner which will dramatically help his skating.

Most 18/19 year old hockey players have the opposite problem and struggle to put on weight. Just look at Muk as an example.

 

[The Nemesis]

Never would have pegged you for a Skibidi Toilet guy!

(it turns out there are no suitable Transformers gifs for this, so whatever. Close enough)

 

[The Nemesis]

This board is his hobbit hole. He lives here.

You traitor!

 

[Juxtaposer]

I remember seeing reports he struggled to maintain a healthy diet being away from home and was like a kid in a candy store for the first part of last year. He is not just tall but thick and definitely has room to get leaner which will dramatically help his skating.

Most 18/19 year old hockey players have the opposite problem and struggle to put on weight. Just look at Muk as an example.

Yep, Halttunen's fitness is a documented issue. He supposedly came to camp last fall lighter than last year, but it doesn't feel like it. My guess is that it's a combo of playing too heavy/diet and not enough time spent on building legs in the gym.

Like I said, if Halttunen can get to an NHL level of fitness and power, then he could be a guy. But unless he takes a big stride there, he won't.

 

[tiburon12]

I'm sure everyone saw this already but a gentle reminder that one person's rankings don't mean much:

 

[Barrie22]

I wonder what musty did to pronman, the rankings he always gives to musty is irrational even for someone that might not be a fan of his certain playstyle.

 

[Munnyro]

I'm sure everyone saw this already but a gentle reminder that one person's rankings don't mean much:

I posted his rankings in my earlier post.

 

[Star Platinum]

I actually look at Vegas's forward group a lot in this regard. Outside of Eichel, they don't really have a fast group but they have a lot of big, strong guys who understand body positioning and leverage. So when they get into those 1v1 battles, they know how to initiate contact where they can win by skill and small ice quickness like with Hertl, Stone or Roy or they win with strength like Kolesar or Barbashev.

We should probably look into getting a guy like Hertl.

 

[Star Platinum]

I'm sure everyone saw this already but a gentle reminder that one person's rankings don't mean much:

 

[Kcoyote3]

I'm sure everyone saw this already but a gentle reminder that one person's rankings don't mean much:

As much as I enjoy complaining about Pronman a lot of this thread was a bit over the top. He is wildly inconsistent with his player grades though. I put no weight at all in those. He grays it all out and just ranks based on his own opinion anyway

 

[Gecklund]

The way I see it, the Sharks have a decent chance on hitting on either Lund or Halttunen to play the RW spot with Mack and Gecko.

Add Chernyshov being a good fit to go with the Musty and Smith combo and that's a good looking top 6.

Zetterlund, Bystedt and Graf as the 3rd line. Wetsch, Svoboda, Cardwell as the 4th.

Unlikely that everyone hits for sure but it does look pretty. And that is just who they've collected so far.

If either of those guys are playing top line, they either massively overperformed or that’s not a good first line.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Patty Ice]

If either of those guys are playing top line, they either massively overperformed or that’s not a good first line.

Celebrini alone makes that bolded statement false let alone adding Eklund.

You could attach two plugs with Celebrini and it's going to be a good line.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Celebrini alone makes that bolded statement false let alone adding Eklund.

You could attach two plugs with Celebrini and it's going to be a good line.

I feel like we tried that with Goodrow and Mack played some of his worst hockey with Goodrow riding shotgun lol.

 

[Patty Ice]

I feel like we tried that with Goodrow and Mack played some of his worst hockey with Goodrow riding shotgun lol.

But he is also a rookie.

I'm referring to down the line once he has fully established himself in the league.

 

[Cas]

I think the odds are that neither Halttunen or Lund will stick in the NHL - maybe 20% chance that either one does.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

But he is also a rookie.

I'm referring to down the line once he has fully established himself in the league.

Ahhh gotcha

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think the odds are that neither Halttunen or Lund will stick in the NHL - maybe 20% chance that either one does.

I'm not even worried if any of our winger prospects hit or not. They're not what moves a rebuild like this along unless they're elite. We need another center that can anchor their own line and we need a real defenseman.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I think the odds are that neither Halttunen or Lund will stick in the NHL - maybe 20% chance that either one does.

I think Halttunen having an elite skill is something that pushes his chances higher than 20%. I think he is likely to get at least 100 games just based on how good his shot is. I’m not saying he will be good but GMs will keep thinking they can fix his issues when they see his frame and shot combination.

 

[timorous me]

Obviously playing Celebrini with someone at Goodrow's current level is retrograde thinking, but what would be an appropriate minimum level down the line as Celebrini matures? I do love Eklund with him--I think that's a great fit--but for the other winger you might be able to feel comfortable, then, going with someone like Crosby played with over the years.

I'm thinking along the lines of Bryan Rust, Pascal Dupuis, Chris Kunitz. Not bad players, but ones who can hang well enough, find chemistry, maybe be a physical or defensively responsible presence, and have their games elevated to new levels by this placement. You can't throw some scrub on that line, but if you have a couple other skill players, let's say Smith and a strong winger, you can then load up on a very attack-minded second line and really punish teams with that one-two punch.