Prospect Info: Sharks Prospect Info & Discussion Megathread XXI: "New, improved, and wayyyy too much info" Edition

[Cas]

It is crazy how wildly different the opinions are on Musty. It obviously is probably somewhere in the middle but Pronman not including at all must be an oversight or a direct attack on him sitting out.

The thing is if he was out for injury for that month people wouldn’t drop him in the rankings so I just don’t see how him sitting out should all of a sudden drop him. He has been dominant this year in the games he has played.

Maybe he just forgot about Musty.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Maybe he just forgot about Musty.

That is the only logical explanation. Which I could understand. There are hundreds of prospects.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Maybe he just forgot about Musty.

Nope. He doesn't like Musty and never has.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Posting without editorial comment, just provocative emojis, Pronman's latest u23 prospects drafted only - notables:
1. Macklin
3. Bedard
6. Michkov
8. Buium
15. Dick Pic
16. Demidov
30. Eklund!
35. Smith
42. Askarov
50. Edstrom
53. Solberg
90. Bystedt
109. Chernyshov
123. Leo Sahlin Wallenius
130. Halttunen
135. Big Shak

No Musty sightings.

What is interesting is for all the talk of the top 6 D in last years draft the last two picked and the two the Sharks had their choice of are now the highest ranked D of those 6.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Posting without editorial comment, just provocative emojis, Pronman's latest u23 prospects drafted only - notables:
1. Macklin
3. Bedard
6. Michkov
8. Buium
15. Dick Pic
16. Demidov
30. Eklund!
35. Smith
42. Askarov
50. Edstrom
53. Solberg
90. Bystedt
109. Chernyshov
123. Leo Sahlin Wallenius
130. Halttunen
135. Big Shak

No Musty sightings.

The Sharks also got the 1st (Celebrini) and 3rd (Dickinson) ranked players in the 2024 draft.

 

[anthonyyy]

Halttunen seems to me like a player who has to strike gold to succeed at the NHL level - if he does, it'll be great, but I don't think he has greater than a 5-10% chance to have a meaningful career.

Musty is much more likely to have a career (still probably below 33%) and I think he'd be as good or better than Halttunen might become, as well. I don't see any justification to rank Halttunen above Musty.

It means absolutely nothing now, but he'd be the type of player that would flourish with prime Joe Thornton. I think he needs that type of overpasser to succeed in the NHL today. Just off the top of my head, Stutzle or Marner always look to pass, that could work for Halttunen. It's too bad Granlund is a bit too old, that could've been a nice combo too.

 

[gaucholoco3]

It means absolutely nothing now, but he'd be the type of player that would flourish with prime Joe Thornton. I think he needs that type of overpasser to succeed in the NHL today. Just off the top of my head, Stutzle or Marner always look to pass, that could work for Halttunen. It's too bad Granlund is a bit too old, that could've been a nice combo too.

If he could add a physical forechecking element to his game which he has the size for he could succeed with Eklund and Celebrini finding the soft spots created by their creativity.

 

[anthonyyy]

If he could add a physical forechecking element to his game which he has the size for he could succeed with Eklund and Celebrini finding the soft spots created by their creativity.

That would help the rebuild so much if it panned out. For what it's worth, it seems he's very open to coaching, and I can see him working hard to play that more physical brand of hockey. Granted, this was the rookie scrimmage and preseason that I saw him, but still encouraging.

 

[Jargon]

It means absolutely nothing now, but he'd be the type of player that would flourish with prime Joe Thornton. I think he needs that type of overpasser to succeed in the NHL today. Just off the top of my head, Stutzle or Marner always look to pass, that could work for Halttunen. It's too bad Granlund is a bit too old, that could've been a nice combo too.

If Smith continues to grow his game and gets to his potential — and Haltunnen keeps working on his hustle, etc etc., they could work well together. Smith, even through his struggles, has made some elite passes this season and Haltunnen could bury them.

 

[Patty Ice]

That would help the rebuild so much if it panned out. For what it's worth, it seems he's very open to coaching, and I can see him working hard to play that more physical brand of hockey. Granted, this was the rookie scrimmage and preseason that I saw him, but still encouraging.

The way I see it, the Sharks have a decent chance on hitting on either Lund or Halttunen to play the RW spot with Mack and Gecko.

Add Chernyshov being a good fit to go with the Musty and Smith combo and that's a good looking top 6.

Zetterlund, Bystedt and Graf as the 3rd line. Wetsch, Svoboda, Cardwell as the 4th.

Unlikely that everyone hits for sure but it does look pretty. And that is just who they've collected so far.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If he could add a physical forechecking element to his game which he has the size for he could succeed with Eklund and Celebrini finding the soft spots created by their creativity.

Halttunen is not a one-trick pony anymore, like I've seen some people say. He's added physicality, defense, and playmaking to his game. The problem is that his skating, fitness, energy, feet, and pace are just nowhere near good enough to make the NHL. If you think Smith is often behind the play, you'd be shocked at how far Halttunen would be behind the play.

Halttunen needs one thing: gym time. Get him down some weight, build up his legs, get his cardio to where it needs to be. If he can't get his legs and feet to NHL average, he simply will never play in the NHL.

It's an interesting trend that the Grier-led Sharks don't seem to value skating and pace in their forwards. Arguably that's the biggest short-coming for all of Smith, Musty, Halttunen, Chernyshov, Lund, etc. Bystedt is solidly average, and other than Celebrini might be the fastest forward in the system. It's a bit concerning.

 

[coooldude]

Halttunen is not a one-trick pony anymore, like I've seen some people say. He's added physicality, defense, and playmaking to his game. The problem is that his skating, fitness, energy, feet, and pace are just nowhere near good enough to make the NHL. If you think Smith is often behind the play, you'd be shocked at how far Halttunen would be behind the play.

Halttunen needs one thing: gym time. Get him down some weight, build up his legs, get his cardio to where it needs to be. If he can't get his legs and feet to NHL average, he simply will never play in the NHL.

It's an interesting trend that the Grier-led Sharks don't seem to value skating and pace in their forwards. Arguably that's the biggest short-coming for all of Smith, Musty, Halttunen, Chernyshov, Lund, etc. Bystedt is solidly average, and other than Celebrini might be the fastest forward in the system. It's a bit concerning.

I think the problem isn't that Grier doesn't value speed, rather it's that finding fast+big forwards who are actual NHL prospects (and not, e.g., AJ Spellacy) is pretty hard and they do value size over speed, plus they're not really willing to build a lineup of small+fast guys just to be fast.

They have been saying "bigger, faster, more compete" for two years now, it's just really hard to find those players at the top end of the lineup. Haltts is slow AF for sure, but at the point we picked him, I think you're really just picking for outlier skills and he has his shot. Is Cherny really that slow - I thought he was kind of average speed in the KHL but very big and tenacious? Musty isn't NHL fast but is he really NHL slow?

Smith is straight up NHL slow, <50%ile in NHL edge for all skating metrics. But the other realistic choice there - Michkov - wouldn't be fast either, so it's hard to prioritize size + speed at that 4OA, which is why it was a damn shame we weren't picking 3rd.

This is honestly why I suspect they'll have Misa over Martone. He has size and speed, and finishing talent to be a complementary player. You're right it's a weakness of the pipeline but I'm just not sure exactly how you solve it, other than just having more high draft picks.

 

[Jargon]

Speaking of speed, Graf has surprised me at how much faster he looks this year. He seems significantly quicker. Whatever he did over the summer, put Smith, Haltunnen and Musty on the same plan.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think the problem isn't that Grier doesn't value speed, rather it's that finding fast+big forwards who are actual NHL prospects (and not, e.g., AJ Spellacy) is pretty hard and they do value size over speed, plus they're not really willing to build a lineup of small+fast guys just to be fast.

They have been saying "bigger, faster, more compete" for two years now, it's just really hard to find those players at the top end of the lineup. Haltts is slow AF for sure, but at the point we picked him, I think you're really just picking for outlier skills and he has his shot. Is Cherny really that slow - I thought he was kind of average speed in the KHL but very big and tenacious? Musty isn't NHL fast but is he really NHL slow?

Smith is straight up NHL slow, <50%ile in NHL edge for all skating metrics. But the other realistic choice there - Michkov - wouldn't be fast either, so it's hard to prioritize size + speed at that 4OA, which is why it was a damn shame we weren't picking 3rd.

This is honestly why I suspect they'll have Misa over Martone. He has size and speed, and finishing talent to be a complementary player. You're right it's a weakness of the pipeline but I'm just not sure exactly how you solve it, other than just having more high draft picks.

Sure, it could be a coincidence and I think it's fair to say that all those guys were somewhat close to BPA when we picked them (except Lund...).

But I think the weakness in the system is functional size, not literal size. Celebrini is 6'0" and Eklund is 5'11", yet they're absolutely more physical and effective in a scrum than 6'2" Musty.

(Not saying Chernyshov or Musty are aggressively slow, just that being heavy-footed or low-pace or lacking quickness and explosiveness is their biggest flaw.)

 

[The Nemesis]

Eklund is 5'1"

Well, at least we know who we can trust if someone needs to go throw the One Ring into the fires of Mt. Doom.

 

[Lebanezer]

Well, at least we know who we can trust if someone needs to go throw the One Ring into the fires of Mt. Doom.

That's dwarf height, get your facts straight.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Well, at least we know who we can trust if someone needs to go throw the One Ring into the fires of Mt. Doom.

I can't believe you waited to hit "reply" on this post until 6 minutes after mine so I couldn't ninja-edit.

 

[The Nemesis]

That's dwarf height, get your facts straight.

Look, I only have room for obsessively deep lore knowledge of one, maybe two areas of nerdery and right now shape-changing alien robot civil wars takes up the main one.

I can't believe you waited to hit "reply" on this post until 6 minutes after mine so I couldn't ninja-edit.

I blame the forum software change/"upgrade"

 

[Lebanezer]

I can't believe you waited to hit "reply" on this post until 6 minutes after mine so I couldn't ninja-edit.

This board is his hobbit hole. He lives here.

 

[Cas]

This board is his hobbit hole. He lives here.

Impossible - a hobbit hole means comfort.

 

[coooldude]

right now shape-changing alien robot civil wars takes up the main one.

Never would have pegged you for a Skibidi Toilet guy!

 

[Juxtaposer]

This board is his hobbit hole. He lives here.

Oof. No wonder he's so crabby.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Halttunen is not a one-trick pony anymore, like I've seen some people say. He's added physicality, defense, and playmaking to his game. The problem is that his skating, fitness, energy, feet, and pace are just nowhere near good enough to make the NHL. If you think Smith is often behind the play, you'd be shocked at how far Halttunen would be behind the play.

Halttunen needs one thing: gym time. Get him down some weight, build up his legs, get his cardio to where it needs to be. If he can't get his legs and feet to NHL average, he simply will never play in the NHL.

It's an interesting trend that the Grier-led Sharks don't seem to value skating and pace in their forwards. Arguably that's the biggest short-coming for all of Smith, Musty, Halttunen, Chernyshov, Lund, etc. Bystedt is solidly average, and other than Celebrini might be the fastest forward in the system. It's a bit concerning.

I’m curious how the pace of these players compare to a Toffoli who is really slow but does everything else to overcome the lack of foot speed. It’s why I don’t like him with Eklund and Celebrini.

Also while Grier has not valued skating with the forwards it has absolutely been something he has prioritized with the D. It seems like all the D he has drafted have been plus skaters.

I’m sure this is intentional based on organizational philosophy but it could also be BPA coincidence in a small sample size.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I’m curious how the pace of these players compare to a Toffoli who is really slow but does everything else to overcome the lack of foot speed. It’s why I don’t like him with Eklund and Celebrini.

Also while Grier has not valued skating with the forwards it has absolutely been something he has prioritized with the D. It seems like all the D he has drafted have been plus skaters.

I’m sure this is intentional based on organizational philosophy but it could also be BPA coincidence in a small sample size.

Toffoli is a great call-out that I hadn't even thought of. He's really slow but he's extremely smart and strong, has great hands and a high-end shot. You could include Wennberg and Goodrow in the "not a burner, but smart and strong" archetype that Grier went after in the offseason.

Are we just trying to build a team of Pavelskis?

 

[Zarzh]

Halttunen is not a one-trick pony anymore, like I've seen some people say. He's added physicality, defense, and playmaking to his game. The problem is that his skating, fitness, energy, feet, and pace are just nowhere near good enough to make the NHL. If you think Smith is often behind the play, you'd be shocked at how far Halttunen would be behind the play.

Halttunen needs one thing: gym time. Get him down some weight, build up his legs, get his cardio to where it needs to be. If he can't get his legs and feet to NHL average, he simply will never play in the NHL.

It's an interesting trend that the Grier-led Sharks don't seem to value skating and pace in their forwards. Arguably that's the biggest short-coming for all of Smith, Musty, Halttunen, Chernyshov, Lund, etc. Bystedt is solidly average, and other than Celebrini might be the fastest forward in the system. It's a bit concerning.

Skating speed is both the most fixable and least important standout attribute for forwards, while you want a mobile defense. Building a team that increases the pace is far harder to do than one that decreases the pace of play and even with immense talent the former is less consistent.