Prospect Info: Sharks Prospect Info & Discussion Megathread XXI: "New, improved, and wayyyy too much info" Edition

[Grinner]

Ferraro is chopped liver?

Minced.

 

[matt trick]

Some of these acquisitions highlight how adept Grier is getting/has become:

Celebrini showed Grier's ability to master a tank. Not a popular opinion, but getting Celebrini is a hidden return on the Burns, Karlsson, and Hertl trades.

Askarov showed Grier's ability to take advantage of a GM in a bad position, trading from a position of relative strength to acquire a blue-chip prospect

Dickinson felt like a repeat of DW's 2007 draft; it highlighted Grier's ability to read and predict a draft. No doubt the price to move up would have increased on draft day.

Graf tells us that Grier can attract undrafted free agents.

Musty and Halttunen indicate Grier's ability to find "sleepers" in the draft (though of course, it is still early).

Chernyshov showed Grier's ability to catch a falling knife and not overthink (like DW too frequently did).

Overall, there is no doubt that Grier has put thought into this rebuild; that isn't always a given (see Buffalo, Anaheim, Winnipeg, Edmonton, etc.)

Can't forget Tofolli, best UFA forward we've signed in what 20 years? Ever?

On Dickinson it was a great move because there seemed to be a consensus top 12, followed by a tier of Luchanko, Jiricek, Eiserman, Connelly, Stolberg, Helenius, Hage, and Nygard. I'd love to know where they had him rated. Could have him as high as three, could have been 10. I also wonder if Philly would have taken Dickinson (no college//agent threat like Buium had).

He also picked a really, really good window to tank. This is partially luck, but I remember in 2022 already hearing about the Bedard and Celebrini drafts, and you got to think it pushed Grier to dump assets- possibly even faster. This is part of why I don't begrudge Grier for icing such a shit team last year. Top odds were critical to get the franchise piece.

In a four year period the top picks have/had a lot of potential #1 centers/d-men/elite wingers. Bedard/Fantilli/Michkov/Carlsson/Smith, Celebrini/Levshunov, Hagens/Martone/Schaefer, McKenna/Bjork. It looks so much better than 2020, 2021, and 2022.

Think Sheng and Keegan (correct me if I'm wrong gents) recently mentioned on a podcast, that part of moving Burns, or certainly the new style was Grier and Quinn's plan to maximize Karlsson's value. He likely kept us out of the bottom three in the Bedard year, but I I'd rather have Smith+Dickinson than Fantilli or Carlsson.

Also, maybe with one of those two in the NHL last year, we'd have acquired pieces to insulate them, not traded Hertl, and potentially not had the pieces for Askarov. So maybe it's Fantilli, Hertl, Levshunov instead of Smith, Celebrini, Dickinson, and Askarov.

So, so excited about what we're building. Hope Hasso is patient and allows for two more years of steady growth, but I'd say we're officially on top 4 RHD watch.

 

[OrrNumber4]

How do you mean sleepers?

Both guys were very well regarded year before their draft season as potential top 10 picks but fell due to different things like mono and/or sloppy play.

Halttunen struggled in the men's league, which is understandable, but had he shown more of a complete game and even a decent amount of production (which he eventually did and then some going back to Finnish juniors), he was easily a 1st round selection. Musty just had a bad break catching mono at the start of the season and had consistency issues. He was a former 1st overall pick in the OHL draft though and very well thought of as a top pick for the 2023 draft.

If you are defining it as guys who had their draft stock fall, I can understand your point but they aren't guys I would define as sleepers.

Terminology is difficult; I just meant it looks like he got great value with those picks in the sense that Musty and Halttunen were predicted to go where he got them but would go higher in a redraft (as opposed to someone like Chernyshov who was drafted well below where he was expected).

Which is just multiple ways of saying that Grier's drafting strategy looks great...

Can't forget Tofolli, best UFA forward we've signed in what 20 years? Ever?

Perhaps, but after really thinking about it (and I posted about it elsewhere), DW's/SJ's inability to get free agents was largely overstated, a result of them having no money or cap to spend or opportunity to give. Grier has both in abundance, and getting free agents comes easy then.

He also picked a really, really good window to tank. This is partially luck, but I remember in 2022 already hearing about the Bedard and Celebrini drafts, and you got to think it pushed Grier to dump assets- possibly even faster. This is part of why I don't begrudge Grier for icing such a shit team last year. Top odds were critical to get the franchise piece.

I wanted to highlight this since it's such a great point. Sure, Bedard and Celebrini being available was luck. But remember that DW wanted to tank for McDavid in 2015 but couldn't bring himself to do it properly. He was given an opportunity; McDavid being draftable and the Sharks not being a contender; he even had the excuse with that miserable failure of a season in 2014. Had he traded Thornton, Marleau, Burns, Pavelski, Vlasic, and Braun, sure the Sharks don't make the finals in 2016, but they probably get one of McDavid/Eichel/Marner.

 

[bunker777]

Terminology is difficult; I just meant it looks like he got great value with those picks in the sense that Musty and Halttunen were predicted to go where he got them but would go higher in a redraft (as opposed to someone like Chernyshov who was drafted well below where he was expected).

Which is just multiple ways of saying that Grier's drafting strategy looks great...


Perhaps, but after really thinking about it (and I posted about it elsewhere), DW's/SJ's inability to get free agents was largely overstated, a result of them having no money or cap to spend or opportunity to give. Grier has both in abundance, and getting free agents comes easy then.


I wanted to highlight this since it's such a great point. Sure, Bedard and Celebrini being available was luck. But remember that DW wanted to tank for McDavid in 2015 but couldn't bring himself to do it properly. He was given an opportunity; McDavid being draftable and the Sharks not being a contender; he even had the excuse with that miserable failure of a season in 2014. Had he traded Thornton, Marleau, Burns, Pavelski, Vlasic, and Braun, sure the Sharks don't make the finals in 2016, but they probably get one of McDavid/Eichel/Marner.

Ehh. That would have been way too early to start tearing it down. That core continued to have great success for three years after the cup run. Remember 2019 when they were an EK65 injury away from making the finals? 2020 was when they really they needed to start tearing it down. But coming off a western conference finals appearance there’s no way they were going to do that.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835724326026494024

Paywall

 

[mogambomoroo]

Now that we've got Askarov, the other goalie prospects are probably not that much in the radar. Just saw at random that this year 7th round pick Korostelyov has had a nice start to the season. It's a very small sample size, but will be fun to see if in 3-5 years we've got something there.

Yaroslav Korostelyov (G)

SKA-1946 St. Petersburg

MHL

3

2.39

.922

0

2-1-0

150:47

 

[Juxtaposer]

A poster over on the London Knights sub-forum is saying the Knights are "kicking the tires" on Musty. I tend to believe CHL rumors from posters, so I really hope this one pans out.

 

[Barrie22]

A poster over on the London Knights sub-forum is saying the Knights are "kicking the tires" on Musty. I tend to believe CHL rumors from posters, so I really hope this one pans out.

If there is rumours then it almost guaranteed to happen. Chl rumours are not like nhl rumours, as nobody really talks to the teams about that kind of stuff until it is guaranteed done.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If there is rumours then it almost guaranteed to happen. Chl rumours are not like nhl rumours, as nobody really talks to the teams about that kind of stuff until it is guaranteed done.

Yeah, CHL rumors are worth taking seriously in my experience. But the rumor isn't "Musty to the Knights", it's "Knights kicking tires on Musty". So I absolutely believe the Knights are interested in Q and maybe even actively trying to make something happen, but it's definitely not done yet.

 

[Barrie22]

Yeah, CHL rumors are worth taking seriously in my experience. But the rumor isn't "Musty to the Knights", it's "Knights kicking tires on Musty". So I absolutely believe the Knights are interested in Q and maybe even actively trying to make something happen, but it's definitely not done yet.

It is weird timing to be kicking the tires though, although the likely hood of him making the team is very slim (in actual reality), he is still one of those players that has the best shot to actually stick with the NHL club after training camp.

So if the rumour is actually true and they are about to make the deal, then it means that Grier and company has already informed sudbury that he was going back this year.

 

[Juxtaposer]

It is weird timing to be kicking the tires though, although the likely hood of him making the team is very slim (in actual reality), he is still one of those players that has the best shot to actually stick with the NHL club after training camp.

So if the rumour is actually true and they are about to make the deal, then it means that Grier and company has already informed sudbury that he was going back this year.

Or it's about Easton Cowan maybe making the Leafs. A lot of the Knights' season hangs on what happens with Cowan, so it makes sense to have a contingency plan.

 

[Barrie22]

Or it's about Easton Cowan maybe making the Leafs. A lot of the Knights' season hangs on what happens with Cowan, so it makes sense to have a contingency plan.

Yes, but a player of Musty level at the ohl level is going to snag a huge combination of players or picks. Not knowing Musty outcome for the knights is dangerous also.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yes, but a player of Musty level at the ohl level is going to snag a huge combination of players or picks. Not knowing Musty outcome for the knights is dangerous also.

Right, so I would bet that if a potential Musty trade is in the works, it will be conditional on Musty being returned to the OHL at least but maybe also on the outcome of Cowan with the Leafs.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Yes, but a player of Musty level at the ohl level is going to snag a huge combination of players or picks. Not knowing Musty outcome for the knights is dangerous also.

I think Musty with London increases his chances of being sent back to the OHL.

I want him on the Sharks because I think he will be a superstar wing with Smith but there are not many spots available and if they have a place that is good for his development then they would be more likely to send him back.

Sharks could have also told Sudbury that he won’t go back there since they don’t like his development there and Sudbury wants to get something for him before it’s official.

 

[Saskatoon]

Musty on Knights is the best outcome if he stays in the OHL

 

[Patty Ice]

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1839328444976652537

 

[crowncarrier]

A poster over on the London Knights sub-forum is saying the Knights are "kicking the tires" on Musty. I tend to believe CHL rumors from posters, so I really hope this one pans out.

The Knights do not have enough in the cupboard to spend on him. The poster over on our board is a bit of a dreamer. Unless the Knights make some moves to obtain picks this trade is very unlikely. And the fact that the Knights have so many question marks about returning players and who's going to be our overagers it hard to make those kind of moves.

On a side note I'm shocked to hear Halttunen is not playing well. I honestly think he's too good to come back to London and would benefit playing for the Barracudas...but I wouldn't be upset if he came back.

 

[Star Platinum]

I was hoping Musty would be #2 for selfish reasons

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840171323726934083

 

[Shark Finn]

As a side note,


Holy f*ck I am glad Chicago didn't end up with Celebrini.

 

[Jargon]

As a side note,


Holy f*ck I am glad Chicago didn't end up with Celebrini.

For real. Though watching Michkov highlights, it’s a little sad that we could’ve had him and Celebrini on the same team.

I do have high hopes for Smith though.

 

[Saskatoon]

For real. Though watching Michkov highlights, it’s a little sad that we could’ve had him and Celebrini on the same team.

I do have high hopes for Smith though.

It's all speculation but I believe Michkov told us not to draft him

Would be nice though

 

[coooldude]

It's all speculation but I believe Michkov told us not to draft him

Would be nice though

The Michkov truthers keep denying it but I believe it 100%. It's confirmed publicly that he told Coyotes he didn't want to go there, and SJ fits a similar profile to the rumor he wanted to play in big hockey markets and not fringe market s like SJ. Clearly he liked PHI as it came out after the draft that he targeted them. Not sure what happened with MTL. Smith is at least somewhat understandable as a pick. Also Grier was super terse when asked about interviewing Michkov, "we talked to everybody we wanted to."

Had we drafted Michkov and not Smith, and he reported to us, we'd be in the market for a high end 2C this year and we'd be looking at Hagens, McQueen, Ryabkin, or Schaefer/Hensler. I think we'd probably be in a better place but I'm biased, I was hoping for Michkov at the draft at the time. Ah well. Hopeful Smith can develop into something powerful, but don't think he's at Michkov's level at the moment.

 

[Hodge]

I’ll take the chance at a RH top six center over another smurf winger every day of the week.