Prospect Info: Sharks Prospect Info & Discussion Megathread XXI: "New, improved, and wayyyy too much info" Edition

[The Nemesis]

I also made it less than 24 hours before noticing my first error in the material.

I wrote that Alex Young signed an ATO with the Adirondack Phantoms of the ECHL instead of the Adirondack Thunder. The Phantoms are Philly's AHL club who are currently in Lehigh Valley and played in Adirondack for like 5 years in the early 2010s after leaving Philadelphia.

The Thunder are the ECHL's former Stockton Thunder, moving to Glens Falls, NY in 2015 when Calgary moved their AHL club from Adirondack to Stockton as part of the AHL west coast expansion (essentially the two clubs just traded markets and venues. This was, I think, a year after the Phantoms left Adirondack and the Flames moved their AHL club there after fizzling out in Abbotsford BC because it turns out that nobody in the heart of Canucks country wants to watch Calgary's farm team and the cost of operating a club by itself in the northwest when the entire rest of the league was back east was (shockingly) prohibitively expensive and awkward).

This also means that the ECHL operates two clubs with the nickname "Thunder" when you include the Wichita Thunder, the current ECHL affiliate of the Sharks & Barracuda. So move over CFL, you're not the only league who can be mocked about identically/near-identically named teams anymore!

 

[timorous me]

The Thunder are the ECHL's former Stockton Thunder, moving to Glenn Falls, NY

Make that Glens Falls! Now you're dealing with my neck of the woods

 

[The Nemesis]

Make that Glens Falls! Now you're dealing with my neck of the woods

Noted. But I didn't have to correct the main posts on page 1 to do that, so I'm calling that a win!

 

[Lebanezer]

I also made it less than 24 hours before noticing my first error in the material.

I wrote that Alex Young signed an ATO with the Adirondack Phantoms of the ECHL instead of the Adirondack Thunder. The Phantoms are Philly's AHL club who are currently in Lehigh Valley and played in Adirondack for like 5 years in the early 2010s after leaving Philadelphia.

The Thunder are the ECHL's former Stockton Thunder, moving to Glens Falls, NY in 2015 when Calgary moved their AHL club from Adirondack to Stockton as part of the AHL west coast expansion (essentially the two clubs just traded markets and venues. This was, I think, a year after the Phantoms left Adirondack and the Flames moved their AHL club there after fizzling out in Abbotsford BC because it turns out that nobody in the heart of Canucks country wants to watch Calgary's farm team and the cost of operating a club by itself in the northwest when the entire rest of the league was back east was (shockingly) prohibitively expensive and awkward).

This also means that the ECHL operates two clubs with the nickname "Thunder" when you include the Wichita Thunder, the current ECHL affiliate of the Sharks & Barracuda. So move over CFL, you're not the only league who can be mocked about identically/near-identically named teams anymore!

This all could’ve been avoided if you just left Young off the list. Todd Marchant did say they aren’t even going to offer him a contract.

 

[The Nemesis]

This all could’ve been avoided if you just left Young off the list. Todd Marchant did say they aren’t even going to offer him a contract.

No. He's a prospect for 2 more weeks so he gets included. Them's the rules.

If I ditched Young then it opens the door to people questioning Emberson or suggesting just tossing Romanov aside because he'll age out in like 5 and a half months, and then chaos. Rules are the rules are the rules. This is serious business

And secondarily as a CFL fan who appreciates the whole "wait, this is a league where two teams have the same name?" gag, I couldn't pass up the Adirondack/Wichita Thunder bit.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I truly admire Nem’s ability to give a crap about the fringe prospects.

Sam Dickinson gets a good review from the Canada WJC split squad game.

Sam Dickinson: Quiet for the first period then turned it on after that. Showing his dynamic skillset and skating. Was jumping into plays and thwarting tons of chances with his strong stick and positioning.

He’ll likely play against Finland on Friday and get an extended look in camp after the returnees leave. I personally don’t see how he could be left off the final roster given that LD after Molendyk isn’t their strongest position, but Canadian WJC coaches sure do love their 19 year olds.

Really wish they did some streaming of the WJSS that wasn’t locked behind a $40 paywall.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I truly admire Nem’s ability to give a crap about the fringe prospects.

Sam Dickinson gets a good review from the Canada WJC split squad game.


He’ll likely play against Finland on Friday and get an extended look in camp after the returnees leave. I personally don’t see how he could be left off the final roster given that LD after Molendyk isn’t their strongest position, but Canadian WJC coaches sure do love their 19 year olds.

Really wish they did some streaming of the WJSS that wasn’t locked behind a $40 paywall.

Dickinson will make the team Canada WJC. Hockey Canada adores guys who have played for them before...Dickinson has worn letters at both U17 and U18 while being a top OHL and NHL draft pick. He's a lock based on their standards lol.

 

[tiburon12]

Make that Glens Falls! Now you're dealing with my neck of the woods

You a Glen's falls guy? I've been going to lake George for like 30 years

 

[Juxtaposer]

Dickinson will make the team Canada WJC. Hockey Canada adores guys who have played for them before...Dickinson has worn letters at both U17 and U18 while being a top OHL and NHL draft pick. He's a lock based on their standards lol.

I don’t think any 18 year old is a lock. But yeah, I would be very surprised if he didn’t make it.

 

[tiburon12]

What is stopping Musty from bailing on the OHL and going to play pro in Europe? Anything legal? Are the restrictions just good faith agreements between the leagues to not steal players? Does his non-Canadian status have any effect?

 

[The Nemesis]

What is stopping Musty from bailing on the OHL and going to play pro in Europe? Anything legal? Are the restrictions just good faith agreements between the leagues to not steal players? Does his non-Canadian status have any effect?

Theoretically nothing would stop him from trying, but the whole hockey developmental system generally relies on that good faith cooperation and the various leagues agreeing to play fair with each other and honor contracts/agreements/rights. I imagine the CHL would step in and claim that whatever Euro league tried to sign him has no right to supersede their claim to him given the working agreement they would have both between the CHL and Europe (with the CHL import draft serving as a way to stop things from being a free-for-all where CHL teams try to poach every European draft prospect they can) and those two bodies and the NHL.

and no, I don't think his being American matters. As someone from North America he is within the CHL umbrella unless he chooses to go the college route. But he forfeited his NCAA eligibility when he suited up in the CHL (though apparently there is a move to change this and allow CHL players to play in the NCAA. But I gather this is more about maybe letting guys who have no real pro hockey future use their CHL scholarship opportunities at US institutions instead of just at Canadian ones as is the case right now. It's probably not meant to be an escape hatch for disgruntled CHL stars to jump ship to the NCAA or use it to leverage the CHL to do what they want.)

I know that Goldobin left the OHL after his draft year and played a season in Finland before joining the Shark system, but that was different because he was a European player who was in the OHL as part of their arrangement with European leagues regarding import players.

 

[sampler]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see musty get his 9 game tryout. I also wouldn’t be that surprised to see him stay in SJ all year.

No one has him penciled in, but it makes all the sense in the world to give him a legit look. He has nhl size, and already crushed the ohl. He looked pretty good in the prospect game and seems to be crushing the WJSS.

I know the sharks have a logjam at forward already, but given that body, gush and others can move feeely between the A and NHL, it would makes sense to give musty a real nhl tryout if he has a strong preseason and if he proves toe nhl ready, why not give him a spot?

 

[tiburon12]

Theoretically nothing would stop him from trying, but the whole hockey developmental system generally relies on that good faith cooperation and the various leagues agreeing to play fair with each other and honor contracts/agreements/rights. I imagine the CHL would step in and claim that whatever Euro league tried to sign him has no right to supersede their claim to him given the working agreement they would have both between the CHL and Europe (with the CHL import draft serving as a way to stop things from being a free-for-all where CHL teams try to poach every European draft prospect they can) and those two bodies and the NHL.

and no, I don't think his being American matters. As someone from North America he is within the CHL umbrella unless he chooses to go the college route. But he forfeited his NCAA eligibility when he suited up in the CHL (though apparently there is a move to change this and allow CHL players to play in the NCAA. But I gather this is more about maybe letting guys who have no real pro hockey future use their CHL scholarship opportunities at US institutions instead of just at Canadian ones as is the case right now. It's probably not meant to be an escape hatch for disgruntled CHL stars to jump ship to the NCAA or use it to leverage the CHL to do what they want.)

I know that Goldobin left the OHL after his draft year and played a season in Finland before joining the Shark system, but that was different because he was a European player who was in the OHL as part of their arrangement with European leagues regarding import players.

Ok, that's what I figured, thanks. I know the Sharks aren't unique to this, but if the importance across all developmental leagues is to do that, develop, then these restrictions hampering development are counterproductive - perhaps that's another reason they are looking to change the rules?

In theory an adult player should be able to terminate his contract without then limiting where he can play. The CHL saying "you can't take our players because we need them to put butts in seats" or whatever feels shortsighted and selfish. Development of its players and graduates should be top priority.

It's clear Musty is frustrated with being stuck like this. I wonder if he'll try something. In business if you hit the ceiling at your company you leave. In education if you are too advanced you move up a level.

I vote Musty bails citing a desire to get a college degree, enrolls in Witchita State, and plays for the Thunder lol

 

[one2gamble]

He needs to sue and break that agreement based on monopoly abuse

 

[timorous me]

You a Glen's falls guy? I've been going to lake George for like 30 years

Yeah, transplanted from Northern California--about 45 minutes away. Close enough that I can go up there when it's not so crowded in the summer!

 

[Kingpin794]

He needs to sue and break that agreement based on monopoly abuse

No he doesn't. He's not too good for the CHL. That's not a real thing. There's a reason some Europeans come over to NA to develop in the CHL while you never see NA players going over to Europe to do the same.

(almost nearly never. I know Auston Matthews did but he's a special case).

 

[Barrie22]

No he doesn't. He's not too good for the CHL. That's not a real thing. There's a reason some Europeans come over to NA to develop in the CHL while you never see NA players going over to Europe to do the same.

(almost nearly never. I know Auston Matthews did but he's a special case).

And didn’t matthews do it not for development reasons, but financial reasons?

 

[one2gamble]

No he doesn't. He's not too good for the CHL. That's not a real thing. There's a reason some Europeans come over to NA to develop in the CHL while you never see NA players going over to Europe to do the same.

(almost nearly never. I know Auston Matthews did but he's a special case).

It doesnt really matter, you shouldnt be able to restrict employment like that especially since its not a rule consistently applied across all players. My opinion has nothing to do with Musty. The agreement is ridiculous.

 

[Hodge]

It doesnt really matter, you shouldnt be able to restrict employment like that especially since its not a rule consistently applied across all players. My opinion has nothing to do with Musty. The agreement is ridiculous.

Of course the agreement is ridiculous but the players union agreed to a CBA containing it so he can't sue.

 

[Saskatoon]

They just need to force a Musty trade to London

Better developmental system and playing with future teammates.

 

[Kcoyote3]

This is awesome. Didn’t realize what this was until today but hot damn. Excellent work.


I remember reading or maybe hearing from Todd Marchant (but don’t quote me on that cause the memory is fuzzy) that Michael Fisher intends to go back to university after the BCHL stint. He was struggling to get ice time already and I think they sort of told him he was going to keep riding the bench.

I would consider his trajectory to be…not great.

 

[Kingpin794]

It doesnt really matter, you shouldnt be able to restrict employment like that especially since its not a rule consistently applied across all players. My opinion has nothing to do with Musty. The agreement is ridiculous.

I don't see it as restricting his employment. Everyone who signs into the CHL understands that it's NHL or CHL until your OA year. If that didn't appeal to them, they are free to go the NCAA route to start. NA players have multiple viable avenues to choose. Not being able to play in the AHL for one season is hardly going to make or break someone's career.

 

[Cas]

I don't see it as restricting his employment. Everyone who signs into the CHL understands that it's NHL or CHL until your OA year. If that didn't appeal to them, they are free to go the NCAA route to start. NA players have multiple viable avenues to choose. Not being able to play in the AHL for one season is hardly going to make or break someone's career.

Yeah, they agree to the restrictions when they sign up.

Nothing prevents Musty from getting a normal job like the rest of us. When you sign up for a job that comes with various restrictions, that you know ahead of time, you can't really sue to overturn those restrictions unless they're explicitly prohibited by some other law (and not being allowed to play in the AHL for one year is not in violation of the Civil Rights Act or anything).

 

[Barrie22]

It doesnt really matter, you shouldnt be able to restrict employment like that especially since its not a rule consistently applied across all players. My opinion has nothing to do with Musty. The agreement is ridiculous.

So players should be able break there contracts at any point in there term lengths?

Every CHL player signs a contract that is for 4 or 5 years in length.

That contract has a few clauses in it that can shorten that length depending on the players development and what the NHL team wants to do with said player if they get drafted to the NHL.

But again to your point about a monopoly, there is nothing that is stoping say a Bedard from signing in Russia and the KHL before signing with the CHL team.

 

[timorous me]

This is awesome. Didn’t realize what this was until today but hot damn. Excellent work.


I remember reading or maybe hearing from Todd Marchant (but don’t quote me on that cause the memory is fuzzy) that Michael Fisher intends to go back to university after the BCHL stint. He was struggling to get ice time already and I think they sort of told him he was going to keep riding the bench.

I would consider his trajectory to be…not great.

We're always reminded that development isn't linear. Fisher might be trying to show that it can be...circular?