themelkman
Always Delivers
Well we can always trade one, no reason to trade 2 before they even hit for a problem so far in the future
Rumor: Sharks looking to trade up to #1
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matt trick
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How many teams even have four legit top 4 dmen including at least 1+ top pairing guy?
Vegas- Pietro, Hanifin, Theodore, Whitecloud
Tampa- Hedman, McDonagh, Cernak, Moser
Dallas- if you include Ceci or Bischel
Florida- Forsling, Ekblad, Jones, Mikkola
Edmonton- Bouch, Ekholm, Nurse, Walman
Winnipeg- Morrisey, Samberg, Demelo, Pionk
Van- Hughes, Petterson, Hronek, probably Willander
Minnesota- Faber, Middleton, Spurgeon, Brodin
Anaheim- Not currently but will soon enough
I’m sure there are others, but it’s not like every team has a surefire top 4.
Like many sharks fans I project us out of the playoffs in 26+27 (hopefully not 28). We have Dickinson and Muk and we have 4 1sts and 4 2nds in the next two drafts. I’d love to add Schaefer (not at the cost of Dickinson), but our defense is probably one top 5 pick or a mid/late- 1st like a Rinzel, Harley from having all the youth we need. If you’ve got one more quality young guy, you add vets, and keep drafting to backfill.
If you told me we’d add one blue chip dman in the next 3 years, I’d say focus on forwards.
Glorydays22
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This is why the isles aren't trading the pick....draft Schaefer and build
Schaefer-Dobson
Romanov - ?
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Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
And I disagree with that. NYI could happily add an elite player at any position to their roster. They will draft who they believe is the best player available at whichever spot they end up picking. They would trade down if the offer justifies the trade. 30th OA by itself does not justify the trade
matt trick
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Pulock seems ideal for the first few years, though that contract gets harder to move with time (or perhaps not, given cap increases).
Given their respective ages Romanov-Dobson looks closer to a top 4 solution then Horvat-Barzal. I know you’ve got Ritchie, Nelson, and Eiserman compared to George on D, but Horvat’s 5 years older than the Dobson and Romanov. Unless Darche sells (he may), I also think the islanders have too much talent to get multiple top 5 picks.
Ever since the Nelson trade I’ve been curious how NYI would rebuild. Not long ago there was no Ritchie, Eiserman, or #1 overall pick. Pretty good calendar year. Even more interesting to follow now.
Sharksfan66
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This is probably said somewhere in the 13 pages here (it's not even technically the offseason yet but sure feels like it!) but I'd like to think that if this report is true, Grier's offering something like 2 + 30 + 53. Maybe 2 + Musty if Darche wants an asset that's closer to playing now.
Anything more than that is counterproductive for the Sharks IMO.
Thrasymachus
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It is hard to emphasize just how much wind is in my sails due to the above, along with the owners finally firing Lou.
frontsfan67
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This is why they haven’t had success since Mike bossy was there. Taking a guy who in all honesty is a borderline top 5 talent #1 overall.
Glorydays22
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No chance the isles take Hagen with the #1 pick...or even #2 or #3 if they move the pick....It's Scheafer by a mile....outside shot if they move the pick it's Misa.
BillR10
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- Nov 16, 2008
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"That's crazy that anyone has Dickinson above all 3 of Buium, Levshunov, and Parekh. Yes he's a great prospect, but come on."
Reread your post. I put it here so you can. You say it's crazy to have him above all 3. Not 1 of 3 or 2 of 3..... ALL 3. That clearly says you think it's crazy to have him over the person he was drafted over even when Dickinson had a better draft +1 season and Buium had a slight weaker draft +1. That's what I pointed out and it's right there in black and white.
The #2 comment was made by someone else originally and I was mentioning where they got it from which was the memorial cup finals commentary. Never said I fully agreed with the take but the commentators were going crazy for him with his 3 assists while helping to shut down McKenna and company with his active stick.
Fatass
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- Apr 17, 2017
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There is zero chance the Islanders pass on Schaefer. These kinds of D are rare. When a club gets a chance to get one they should take it. Islanders can always trade Dobson for a haul if they wish. But passing on Scarfer would be like the Sabres passing on Dahlin. These kinds of franchise altering D are rare. Draft them when the chance comes.
There are several different issues happening beneath this debate that needs to be addressed for a useful discussion. Too many false assumption going on imo.
1) Who is the BPA?
As a neutral, I love Schaefer but thinking Misa but is undervalued here. Most mocks have Schaefer/Misa as 1A/1B and some with Misa first... even though most have Schaefer first due to "potential" of true 1D. However, the gap between the 2 isn't as big. No scout would say Schaefer is as good as Dahlin in his draft year let along Potvin. Dahlin still can't get his team into the PO and arguably their group of forwards is similar level to the NYI. Misa had one of the most productive scoring draft year and plays a 2 way game that compares him to Stutzle and Hischier. Those guys were or should have been 1OA so it's not crazy to say Misa can be 1OA imo. Schaefer meanwhile still needs work on defensive game. He's not physical and still gets beat. You assume he'll improve and he has the IQ but there's just not enough sample to say he'll be better than Dahlin or Jake Sanderson even. He may be better than Dahlin but his draft year is incomparable to him so maybe lower that a bit and don't risk ruining him with unreasonable expectation. If Misa is really Stutzle/Hischier with offense, that's worthy 1OA pick imo and fit need for NYI.
2) Sharks are desperate for a 1D so they are willing to overpay?
Seems false, They have Dick and Muk on LD. They do need RD badly which is not Schaefer. They can get that RD in next year draft so the next year draft is def out of the conversation imo.
Dick upside is top pair LD where Schaefer would play. If Schaefer stays in OHL which is likely given his lack of games past 2 years. Do you think he can be much better D+1 than Dick? Doubtful even if Schaefer ends up better. Muk is already showing he's capable of top 4 if not more before he was injured but before that, he already looked like the best D man on their roster which is a low bar but still.
3) What position is more important for winning team construction?
Is top pairing of Schaefer/Dobson more valuable than potentially Misa/Barzal as 1C/2C? Neither D are projected as shut down types. Dobson is avg to below on defense and it will take at least several years for Schaefer to even start to make the league. Misa can probably start off at the wing and transition to center sooner. If you want to compete sooner and still address long term need at critical position, isn't Misa a strong option? Plus management needs to sell seats while the team is locked into LT contracts already making rebuild difficult imo and Misa can help sooner than Schaefer.
Hence, although I love Schaefer's potential as much as anyone, I'd argue the gap between the 2 isn't large enough and NYI can't go wrong either way imo. So to demand SJ give up everything for Schaefer when LD isn't the biggest need is kinda out of touch with reality. However, I wouldn't rule out Grier and Darche, former teammates could find a reasonable trade but I don't think MG need to offer a Herschel Walker type of package for Schaefer when Misa might be really what the NYI need more and may be the more impactful player in the long run.
I hope a deal could get done as just a neutral fan since Schaefer with Dick as the trigger with Celly/Smit on PP looks like a dynasty. NYI would still need to find a true 1C to pair Schaefer but they won't be bad enough or lucky enough imo and he'd be wasted there. Meanwhile, Misa can help NYI win now and fill their long term 1C need which can only be done with top pick and still have good chance of improving their D corp and winning sooner and later.
1) Who is the BPA?
As a neutral, I love Schaefer but thinking Misa but is undervalued here. Most mocks have Schaefer/Misa as 1A/1B and some with Misa first... even though most have Schaefer first due to "potential" of true 1D. However, the gap between the 2 isn't as big. No scout would say Schaefer is as good as Dahlin in his draft year let along Potvin. Dahlin still can't get his team into the PO and arguably their group of forwards is similar level to the NYI. Misa had one of the most productive scoring draft year and plays a 2 way game that compares him to Stutzle and Hischier. Those guys were or should have been 1OA so it's not crazy to say Misa can be 1OA imo. Schaefer meanwhile still needs work on defensive game. He's not physical and still gets beat. You assume he'll improve and he has the IQ but there's just not enough sample to say he'll be better than Dahlin or Jake Sanderson even. He may be better than Dahlin but his draft year is incomparable to him so maybe lower that a bit and don't risk ruining him with unreasonable expectation. If Misa is really Stutzle/Hischier with offense, that's worthy 1OA pick imo and fit need for NYI.
2) Sharks are desperate for a 1D so they are willing to overpay?
Seems false, They have Dick and Muk on LD. They do need RD badly which is not Schaefer. They can get that RD in next year draft so the next year draft is def out of the conversation imo.
Dick upside is top pair LD where Schaefer would play. If Schaefer stays in OHL which is likely given his lack of games past 2 years. Do you think he can be much better D+1 than Dick? Doubtful even if Schaefer ends up better. Muk is already showing he's capable of top 4 if not more before he was injured but before that, he already looked like the best D man on their roster which is a low bar but still.
3) What position is more important for winning team construction?
Is top pairing of Schaefer/Dobson more valuable than potentially Misa/Barzal as 1C/2C? Neither D are projected as shut down types. Dobson is avg to below on defense and it will take at least several years for Schaefer to even start to make the league. Misa can probably start off at the wing and transition to center sooner. If you want to compete sooner and still address long term need at critical position, isn't Misa a strong option? Plus management needs to sell seats while the team is locked into LT contracts already making rebuild difficult imo and Misa can help sooner than Schaefer.
Hence, although I love Schaefer's potential as much as anyone, I'd argue the gap between the 2 isn't large enough and NYI can't go wrong either way imo. So to demand SJ give up everything for Schaefer when LD isn't the biggest need is kinda out of touch with reality. However, I wouldn't rule out Grier and Darche, former teammates could find a reasonable trade but I don't think MG need to offer a Herschel Walker type of package for Schaefer when Misa might be really what the NYI need more and may be the more impactful player in the long run.
I hope a deal could get done as just a neutral fan since Schaefer with Dick as the trigger with Celly/Smit on PP looks like a dynasty. NYI would still need to find a true 1C to pair Schaefer but they won't be bad enough or lucky enough imo and he'd be wasted there. Meanwhile, Misa can help NYI win now and fill their long term 1C need which can only be done with top pick and still have good chance of improving their D corp and winning sooner and later.
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Glorydays22
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all mock drafts have Shaefer going #1...not sure where you see Misa going 1st.....Isles are not going to pass up on a future #1 Defensemen with his offense.
Look in the other threads... They are there. I think it was one of the scouts from EP, maybe Cam Rob or someone else. The main point though, if all you are anchoring on is this, that's pretty flimsy imo. Even the ones that rank him first seems to have him 1A/1B... plus none are saying he's Dahlin but more comps are Jake Sanderson or hopefully Werenski... if you want to go by their reports. Those are great outcomes for true 1D but is that so much better than Stutzle or scoring Hischier?
No, it wouldn't. Dahlin was a generational type prospect. Schaefer is a very good prospect who would not be a 1OA if he were any other year between 2023 and 2027. You keep hyping him up in your head as a generational prospect (Potvin, lol). No one of any repute is saying that.
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
That's how you chose to interpret what I wrote, that's is not what I was saying. I originally wrote "That's crazy that anyone has Dickinson above Buium, Levshunov, and Parekh. Yes he's a great prospect, but come on." And edit in the "all 3 of" exactly because I didn't want people to read it how you somehow still managed to read it.
Fatass
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- Apr 17, 2017
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It only takes one viewing of Schaefer to see his potential. He’s a rare player. He could be up there as game changing guys with Hughes and Makar. It’s franchise changing to get one of these guys.
Glorydays22
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Glorydays22
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Time will tell I guess....But I can say Isles aren't moving the pick and it sounds like the are sold on him.
Yea and they have Misa close to him also. Add Pronman. They're the ones comping him to the guys I mentioned. You're acting like Jake Sanderson and Werenski are terrible players lol. Plus they're not infallible. This is so weak.
Glorydays22
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who is saying anything about Snaderson or Werenski?? The debate is Scheafer or Misa...and to me it's not close. Isles have 2 1st rounders in 2026 which has much more depth at the forward spot. They get Scheafer this year and get a good top 10 forward next year.
Good thing scouts tend to watch more than one viewing of a player.
They compared him stylistically to Makar bec of his skating and activation, but what makes those guys generational is their IQ. There just isn't enough sample in a 20 game to confirm his IQ in a short season. We think it's there in small sample but it's still a risk so . Also some comp him to Jake Sanderson and Werenski also... Those aren't chopped liver either... Those mocks also considered Misa to be Stutzle or Hischier level or Marleau etc. That's solid 1C to push down Barzal.
