Movies: Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings - September 3rd, 2021

[nameless1]

It does not sound like Tong Leung in the voiceover. I am mixed on this thus far. So far, it looks like Marvel studios will screw over The Mandarin a second time.

 

[nameless1]

One could argue that it was foreshadowed to a certain extent in the Iron Man movies. He is kidnapped by the 10 rings in Iron Man 1, in Iron Man 2 it is a Ten Rings member that gives Vanko his fake ID. Iron Man 3 sees Killian use their name for his purposes and the One-Shot All Hail the King shows how they were not happy about it. Add that one of Shang-Chi's biggest opponents historically is the Ten Rings...I mean it's not that hard to link it all.

Marvel only reconfigured The Mandarin because of outrage for his portrayal in Iron Man 3. All Hail the King is Marvel's "apology", without an actual apology. Not too many people watches those One Shots.

We all know Marvel basically pulled this one out of their ass. The trailer instills very little confidence in me, because it looks like any Hong Kong action flick. At this point, I have little to no hope for movie, but sadly, I will probably watch it. I will just shut my brain off when I watch it.

 

[Jussi]

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Marvel.

 

[Osprey]

BigBadBruins is right, IMO. There seems to be an overt element of pandering to China involved here. If you don't like the term "pander," then exchange it for "cater" or "target." It doesn't really change what's going on. China has turned into a huge market for Marvel movies. 1/5th of Infinity War's worldwide box office came from China and a full 1/3rd of Endgame's did. It seems naïve to think that Disney didn't notice those receipts coming in and only coincidentally fast-tracked this film at the same time.

That said, I'm sure that there are domestic reasons, too. The Marvel cinematic universe has been criticized for not featuring enough Asian characters. This helps them address that and also attract more North American viewers of Asian descent to the Marvel universe. Disney did something similar with Black Panther. I imagine that black audiences are now more invested in the Marvel universe than they were before and that's contributed to the Marvel box office since. If Shang-Chi and one or more characters from Black Panther show up in further Marvel movies, it'll help solidify it. We may eventually get a latino-themed Marvel movie for similar reasons.

Either way, it's good business. Big budget movies rarely get greenlit unless they cater to or target an audience that can be counted on to make back the movie's budget. This movie looks to me like it's tailor-made for Chinese audiences, though I'm sure that Disney is also crossing their fingers that it'll be popular domestically, as well. Making movies that are hits in both of the biggest movie markets is like printing money.

 

[NyQuil]

Either way, it's good business. Big budget movies rarely get greenlit unless they cater to or target an audience that can be counted on to make back the movie's budget. This movie looks to me like it's tailor-made for Chinese audiences, though I'm sure that Disney is also crossing their fingers that it'll be popular domestically, as well. Making movies that are hits in both of the biggest movie markets is like printing money.

Keep in mind that Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was a far bigger hit in the West than in China.

Chinese audiences compared it unfavourably to more domestic fare made in China for Chinese audiences.

It could flop in China, because it won't really stand out among all the wuxia films already out there.

 

[Osprey]

Keep in mind that Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was a far bigger hit in the West than in China.

Chinese audiences compared it unfavourably to more domestic fare made in China for Chinese audiences.

It could flop in China, because it won't really stand out among all the wuxia films already out there.

Yeah, I'm not assuming that it'll be successful over there, just that Disney hopes that it will be. They can't figure out why their Star Wars sequel trilogy wasn't more popular there, so I doubt that they know what Chinese audiences want. As you suggested, this could certainly flop with them, ironically because it's similar to their native movies, yet not to their current tastes. It might be sort of like when I watch a recent Chinese sci-fi blockbuster that feels like a clone of Hollywood sci-fi blockbusters... but from 20 years ago.

 

[Hasbro]

Why do I feel like this is Marvel's "watch this, we can take any old thing out of our catalog and make a blockbuster movie that people will flock to" show-off move?

because you didn't know about this:

 

[Superman33]

And Doctor Strange wasn't? and Guardians of the Galaxy?

I don't see why it matters it was out of left field. IP wise of the ones they have access to, Marvel studios has kinda ran the well dry. All of the big players in the Avengers have gotten their movies or have them on the way. The "B" level heroes like Black Panther and Doctor Strange are already established, other lesser IPs (Punisher, Daredevil, etc) have gotten TV adaptations and they don't seem to want to bring it into the MCU.

The only two obvious big ones that are missing (Fantastic Four, X-Men) are held up by licensing issues so what do you expect?

We all know that Doctor Strange was made to pander to the incredibly large Sorcerer demo, duh.

 

[beowulf]

because you didn't know about this:

Ohh gawd don't remind us...that character had the weird "ability" after the top of his head was replaced by metal after an accident.

Metal-Plated Skull: After a crash, most of Archer's cranium was replaced with highly-durable metal to protect his brain, said plate can now be used to give lethal headbutts, and tune into CB Radio transmissions, changing the channels by touching the fillings in his teeth with his tongue.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

I don't know about some of y'all but I really DIG the action in Hong Kong and wuxia flicks. If injecting some of that style into the MCU (versus the typical cartoony CGI heavy action in most of the movies) is considered pandering than pander to me baby. Pander away.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

As to the sentiment that Marvel can arrogantly whip out any property and say "Watch this!" That exact same point was made with Guardians of the Galaxy and with Ant-Man and the MCU still did fine.

MCU will miss at some point. It's inevitable. I don't think it's going to be this though.

Folks here are sitting around saying Shang-Chi is obscure and hasn't been established while the freaking Eternals is still sitting out there. I'd be willing to bet Shang-Chi does better box office than The Eternals. Shang-Chi seems like a pretty straightforward, fun sell. Who knows what sort of weirdness we're going to get with The Eternals. I'm fascinated by what it might be but that one sounds far riskier and odder than Shang-Chi.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Know nothing about this but based on Marvel’s track record and the inevitable tie in to the MCU, I’ll end up watching it at some point.

At the very least I’d say it’s highly likely this movie is watchable at worst.

 

[GarbageGoal]

After Guardians of the Galaxy, I would trust Marvel on this, but no maybe this time I should listen to the "anti-virt".....oops lemme stop there.

Looking forward to this treatment of The Mandarin. This after saying I'd be done after the Black Widow standalone.

 

[Blitzkrug]

BigBadBruins is right, IMO. There seems to be an overt element of pandering to China involved here. If you don't like the term "pander," then exchange it for "cater" or "target." It doesn't really change what's going on. China has turned into a huge market for Marvel movies. 1/5th of Infinity War's worldwide box office came from China and a full 1/3rd of Endgame's did. It seems naïve to think that Disney didn't notice those receipts coming in and only coincidentally fast-tracked this film at the same time.

That said, I'm sure that there are domestic reasons, too. The Marvel cinematic universe has been criticized for not featuring enough Asian characters. This helps them address that and also attract more North American viewers of Asian descent to the Marvel universe. Disney did something similar with Black Panther. I imagine that black audiences are now more invested in the Marvel universe than they were before and that's contributed to the Marvel box office since. If Shang-Chi and one or more characters from Black Panther show up in further Marvel movies, it'll help solidify it. We may eventually get a latino-themed Marvel movie for similar reasons.

Either way, it's good business. Big budget movies rarely get greenlit unless they cater to or target an audience that can be counted on to make back the movie's budget. This movie looks to me like it's tailor-made for Chinese audiences, though I'm sure that Disney is also crossing their fingers that it'll be popular domestically, as well. Making movies that are hits in both of the biggest movie markets is like printing money.

Nah, you're just seeing what you want to see.

You want to see pandering? Mulan is pandering. Disney gutted a lot of the stuff that made the original animated film special to try and appease China.

Making a movie about a Chinese/Hong Kong oriented hero is not pandering. That's called being an airhead.

 

[Osprey]

Nah, you're just seeing what you want to see.

You want to see pandering? Mulan is pandering. Disney gutted a lot of the stuff that made the original animated film special to try and appease China.

Making a movie about a Chinese/Hong Kong oriented hero is not pandering. That's called being an airhead.

I don't think that you should call someone an airhead for suggesting that a movie about a Chinese hero is pandering after doing the same thing, yourself. Mulan is a Chinese hero, too. Also, I think that admitting that Disney recently pandered to China with Mulan but being certain that Disney having another film with strong Chinese elements in production partly at the same time is just coincidence seems a little naïve, honestly. I think that you're seeing what you want to see because you're looking forward to the film, and I don't blame you. As someone who isn't interested in Marvel and doesn't have any stake in this film, I'm just telling you what it looks like to me.

 

[RandV]

I don't think that you should call someone an airhead for suggesting that a movie about a Chinese hero is pandering after doing the same thing, yourself. Mulan is a Chinese hero, too. Also, I think that admitting that Disney recently pandered to China with Mulan but being certain that Disney having another film with strong Chinese elements in production partly at the same time is just coincidence seems a little naïve, honestly. I think that you're seeing what you want to see because you're looking forward to the film, and I don't blame you. As someone who isn't interested in Marvel and doesn't have any stake in this film, I'm just telling you what it looks like to me.

If there's a 'pandering' target here it's towards the North American/Western Asian demographic. Which checking wikipedia makes up 5% of the US, with a heavier proportion in west coast film towns. Like has been mentioned, it's the same market Crazy Rich Asians was for. Simu Liu's show Kim's Convenience is in this market. This past Christmas even Hallmark (or maybe it was Lifetime) jumped in with an Asian main cast Christmas MOW called Sugar and Spice. The common thread is these tend to be about 20-40 aged Asian adults who were born/raised in North America and 'Westernized' but have immigrant parents who are still highly traditional Chinese/Korean/etc. This setup is also highly agreeable to general English speaking audiences. It is decidedly not geared towards a mainland Chinese/Korean/etc audience.

Certainly a lot of Hollywood will pander to China, that's just Capitalism. But while everyone's allowed their own impressions/opinions you're getting quote here because in this case you're impression is simply wrong.

 

[Blitzkrug]

I don't think that you should call someone an airhead for suggesting that a movie about a Chinese hero is pandering after doing the same thing, yourself. Mulan is a Chinese hero, too. Also, I think that admitting that Disney recently pandered to China with Mulan but being certain that Disney having another film with strong Chinese elements in production partly at the same time is just coincidence seems a little naïve, honestly. I think that you're seeing what you want to see because you're looking forward to the film, and I don't blame you. As someone who isn't interested in Marvel and doesn't have any stake in this film, I'm just telling you what it looks like to me.

'
And I'm telling you it's' not pandering and you're just plain wrong.

They're not even remotely comparable. Disney took an already established property and gutted the things the Chinese deemed offensive or unappealing (Mushu, literally the entire musical aspect to focus on a way shittier plot) to appeal to them particularly.

We don't even know about Shang-Chi outside of the fact it's a movie about a Chinese guy running away from his heritage of his family. It's not pandering just because it doesn't have white people in it.

 

[Jussi]

I don't think that you should call someone an airhead for suggesting that a movie about a Chinese hero is pandering after doing the same thing, yourself. Mulan is a Chinese hero, too. Also, I think that admitting that Disney recently pandered to China with Mulan but being certain that Disney having another film with strong Chinese elements in production partly at the same time is just coincidence seems a little naïve, honestly. I think that you're seeing what you want to see because you're looking forward to the film, and I don't blame you. As someone who isn't interested in Marvel and doesn't have any stake in this film, I'm just telling you what it looks like to me.

Chinese literally complained about Simu Liu "not looking Chinese enough". This ain't pandering. They would've changed the actor if they were.

 

[The Nemesis]

because you didn't know about this:

They should do a team-up movie with him and NFL SuperPro

 

[Hasbro]

They should do a team-up movie with him and NFL SuperPro

Have them team up with Razorback to fight the Hypno Hustler.

A villain so pathetic Scourge didn’t even bother with him.

 

[The Nemesis]

Have them team up with Razorback to fight the Hypno Hustler.
View attachment 424727

A villain so pathetic Scourge didn’t even bother with him.

It's just a shame that Codpiece is a DC property...

 

[Osprey]

But while everyone's allowed their own impressions/opinions you're getting quote here because in this case you're impression is simply wrong.

And I'm telling you it's' not pandering and you're just plain wrong.

I don't mind if you disagree with me, but flatly declaring that I'm wrong when you can't possibly know seems more like not wanting to believe that Disney could be courting a market besides your own.

They're not even remotely comparable. Disney took an already established property and gutted the things the Chinese deemed offensive or unappealing (Mushu, literally the entire musical aspect to focus on a way shittier plot) to appeal to them particularly.

We don't even know about Shang-Chi outside of the fact it's a movie about a Chinese guy running away from his heritage of his family. It's not pandering just because it doesn't have white people in it.

You say that we don't know anything about Shang-Chi, whereas Mulan was an established property, but Shang-Chi pre-dates the animated Mulan by a quarter of a century. He first appeared in comics in 1973 and is the son of Fu Manchu, a Chinese mastermind bent on world conquest and reflecting racial stereotypes. I don't imagine that the Chinese would've been too happy about that. It turns out that the producers of this movie changed the father to be less offensive and one-dimensional and more loving. What else did they change, remove or add to make the movie more appropriate and appealing? We don't know. We didn't know much about Mulan until shortly before its release. This movie is still 4.5 months away.

 

[Osprey]

Here's a pretty good read on the subject:

Marvel is censoring films for China, and you probably didn't even notice

In 2021, Marvel will take its focus on China to the next level. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings will be its first Asian superhero movie and part of Phase 4 of the MCU. It seems squarely aimed at China. Chinese-born actor Simu Liu will play the lead role, and the movie will hit theaters Feb. 12, 2021 -- aka Chinese New Year.

But the more closely Marvel targets China, the more carefully it needs to tread.

It may be a risk for Marvel to consider China's market from Day 1, to make a move toward the country with a movie that could perform better there than in the US. It's also, according to Berry, "impossible to guess how US audiences will react to" a movie seemingly aimed at Chinese audiences and their lucrative box office.

One of the interesting things there is that the film's original release date was Chinese New Year, one of the biggest holidays in China. That's like opening a movie on Memorial Day in the States. Over half of the highest grossing Chinese films were released on Chinese New Year. Disney originally picking that day to release this film suggests that they were and are hoping for it to be a big hit in China.

The article also makes a good observation about a Hong Kong actor playing the villain (who's Chinese in the comics). The Chinese review board and even audiences likely wouldn't have been happy with a mainland Chinese villain. Disney would've known that, so the casting choice seems like a deliberate move to appease China.

 

[beowulf]

Have them team up with Razorback to fight the Hypno Hustler.
View attachment 424727

A villain so pathetic Scourge didn’t even bother with him.

But what about Hellcow?

with the help of Combo Man

Maybe Bird-Brain can lead them

And at the last second Bill Ray Cyrus could come in an rock n roll save the day

 

[Jussi]

Visually there should be no issues with this since Bill Pope is in charge of cinematography.