News Article: Shane Pinto suspended 41 games for violating gambling rules

[Sens of Anarchy]

When Pinto came to town the talk was that they had a deal in place & were about to pull the trigger on the deal until the league notified them about their investigation results. That makes the most sense & PD waited to get Pinto's price down to what they could afford given the trade deal they had in place. Not sure how any of this is PD's fault, in fact, this seems to have worked out in his favour & signing Pinto in future will be a lot cheaper for the team & cap.

No one is saying any of that is his fault

 

[Big Muddy]

When Pinto came to town the talk was that they had a deal in place & were about to pull the trigger on the deal until the league notified them about their investigation results. That makes the most sense & PD waited to get Pinto's price down to what they could afford given the trade deal they had in place. Not sure how any of this is PD's fault, in fact, this seems to have worked out in his favour & signing Pinto in future will be a lot cheaper for the team & cap.

There's a lot of things outside of just what happened in the Pinto situation that precipitated the cap situation (shortfall).

Early in the offseason (early July), Brannstrom & MacEwan were signed. And then, Tarasenko was signed for $5 m (one year) on July 27th.

So, it doesn't seem like signing Pinto was the priority unless you are making the argument that the Senators knew about the Pinto situation in early July (pretty much when the free agency period started).

The problem with cap space was created in July if you don't include the 4 events that led to the $5 m of dead cap space.

Some folks seem to have short memories or are eager to forget the many events that occurred in July, or long before that even.

 

[aragorn]

There's a lot of things outside of just what happened in the Pinto situation that precipitated the cap situation (shortfall).

Early in the offseason (early July), Brannstrom & MacEwan were signed. And then, Tarasenko was signed for $5 m (one year) on July 27th.

So, it doesn't seem like signing Pinto was the priority unless you are making the argument that the Senators knew about the Pinto situation in early July (pretty much when the free agency period started).

The problem with cap space was created in July if you don't include the 4 events that led to the $5 m of dead cap space.

Some folks seem to have short memories or are eager to forget the many events that occurred in July or long before that even.

The problem could have also been that the Pinto camp was asking to much & they were trying to talk them down & that didn't happen until he came to town. PD signed who he could while he could & maybe had a deal in place once they got the price they wanted, but who knows it's all speculation unless they come clean.

 

[Big Muddy]

The problem could have also been that the Pinto camp was asking to much & they were trying to talk them down & that didn't happen until he came to town. PD signed who he could while he could & maybe had a deal in place once they got the price they wanted, but who knows it's all speculation unless they come clean.

OK, but that's another way of saying that Pinto wasn't the priority.

I'd be surprised if you thought getting Brannstrom signed was a priority for example. And yet, here we are. If Pinto was a priority, then get that done first, at least before Brannstrom, no?

Once Tarasenko was signed, the door was closing for Pinto as far as cap space. That happened on July 27th.

Then there's the $5 million of dead cap and all of those events happened well before 2023.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The problem could have also been that the Pinto camp was asking to much & they were trying to talk them down & that didn't happen until he came to town. PD signed who he could while he could & maybe had a deal in place once they got the price they wanted, but who knows it's all speculation unless they come clean.

At this point who cares.

Pinto will be back at some point in January, Dorion will be gone at some point in the new year, or whenever they feel like they can get their guy in.

I wonder who the next target will be.

 

[JD1]

When Pinto came to town the talk was that they had a deal in place & were about to pull the trigger on the deal until the league notified them about their investigation results. That makes the most sense & PD waited to get Pinto's price down to what they could afford given the trade deal they had in place. Not sure how any of this is PD's fault, in fact, this seems to have worked out in his favour & signing Pinto in future will be a lot cheaper for the team & cap.

I'm not sure any of the Pinto talk prior to his suspension had anything to do with reality.

I do agree that it's worked out in his favour

 

[JD1]

OK, but that's another way of saying that Pinto wasn't the priority.

I'd be surprised if you thought getting Brannstrom signed was a priority for example. And yet, here we are. If Pinto was a priority, then get that done first, at least before Brannstrom, no?

Once Tarasenko was signed, the door was closing for Pinto as far as cap space. That happened on July 27th.

Then there's the $5 million of dead cap and all of those events happened well before 2023.

You seem awfully hung up on Pinto should have been the priority

No one is saying any of that is his fault

That's what the missing games of development crack was about

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

delete

 

[Big Muddy]

You seem awfully hung up on Pinto should have been the priority

Not really. I am responding to other posts made by posters who seem to have gotten amnesia about the events that occurred in July or earlier. And, it shouldn't be much of a surprise to talk about Pinto in a "Pinto thread".

 

[jake1]

I would guess maybe they were prioritizing guys who had other options, at least in some cases. That would leave you with guys you had total control over to wrap up at the end.

 

[Big Muddy]

I would guess maybe they were prioritizing guys who had other options, at least in some cases. That would leave you with guys you had total control over to wrap up at the end.

Like Brannstrom & MacEwan I suppose who were signed in early July.

 

[aragorn]

OK, but that's another way of saying that Pinto wasn't the priority.

I'd be surprised if you thought getting Brannstrom signed was a priority for example. And yet, here we are. If Pinto was a priority, then get that done first, at least before Brannstrom, no?

Once Tarasenko was signed, the door was closing for Pinto as far as cap space. That happened on July 27th.

Then there's the $5 million of dead cap and all of those events happened well before 2023.

Sure, but we also don't have any idea what took place or why, they seldom do things in the way fans want, no team does. Maybe there were reasons for it that we are obviously unaware of, maybe they did things in the order they did because that is how those things lined up, guy accepts offer, sign him before something changes. Guy hasn't accepted offer yet, keep negotiating & hope you can later, they brought Pinto to town likely because both sides had agreed to a deal & likely they had a trade in place but the NHL stepped in & stopped it.

Everything else is irrelevant, coulda, shoulda, woulda. It's all meaningless now since Chabot is injured, they have the space, dead cap is meaningless, Tarasenko signing has turned out to be a good deal as does the Korpisalo signing. It's all worked out for him in an odd way. They have a decent team & should only get better when Pinto arrives in Jan & might have the space to make a deadline deal to improve the team further especially if it's for another young guy with talent, I see it as positive result.

 

[Smash88]

Does his suspension only start once he is signed or has it already started?

 

[starling]

Does his suspension only start once he is signed or has it already started?

Started from game 1

 

[Smash88]

Started from game 1

Does he still have to forfeit money from each game?

 

[BondraTime]

Does he still have to forfeit money from each game?

You don't get paid while under suspension

 

[5ive4Fighting]

To evaluate Dorion in this situation I think we need to know

a) how many teams are generally over the cap in the summer, and how did they get there

b) when do teams generally resolve their situations, and how

c) when have past 2nd/3rd tweener RFAs viewed as part of the core but ineligble for an offer sheet gotten their contracts

d) if there is little or no precedent for c) above, what arguments support Dorion having done the wrong thing, and what arguments support him having done the right thing

e) did previous discussions take place that saw the Pinto side sticking to a number (e.g. 2.5) that the Senators were not willing to meet

 

[Big Muddy]

Sure, but we also don't have any idea what took place or why, they seldom do things in the way fans want, no team does. Maybe there were reasons for it that we are obviously unaware of, maybe they did things in the order they did because that is how those things lined up, guy accepts offer, sign him before something changes. Guy hasn't accepted offer yet, keep negotiating & hope you can later, they brought Pinto to town likely because both sides had agreed to a deal & likely they had a trade in place but the NHL stepped in & stopped it.

Everything else is irrelevant, coulda, shoulda, woulda. It's all meaningless now since Chabot is injured, they have the space, dead cap is meaningless, Tarasenko signing has turned out to be a good deal as does the Korpisalo signing. It's all worked out for him in an odd way. They have a decent team & should only get better when Pinto arrives in Jan & might have the space to make a deadline deal to improve the team further especially if it's for another young guy with talent, I see it as positive result.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with your post. It seems like you're downplaying having a strategy and a plan. Part of the plan is understanding the priorities and timing or order of the events and when they need to occur. That's an important part of a good strategy.

Lots of things for you seem to be a "woulda, coulda, shoulda" because you have a tendency to either forget or enigmatically downplay all of the events that led to a current situation like they are somehow unimportant trivial details that should be swept under the rug when convenient.

I too hope for the best like all Senator fans do. Because of the Chabot LTIR, we are cap complaint now. But, before that we were running a reduced roster because of the cap pickle we were in. We all know who is responsible for roster/cap construction.

Thankfully, Grieg has filled in nicely. On or around (after) Jan. 21st there will have to be another roster subtraction to get Pinto inserted into the lineup because of the cap constraint unless something else happens like another LTIR. But I just don't see how the last half of your post relates to the things that happened before the end of July 2023 which led to the cap crunch & Pinto situation. And, this is a Pinto thread versus a more general Senator (cheerleading) thread. Just an idea (and imho), there was a 2023 Senator positivity thread so that would be a good place for about half of your post.

Footnote: I am "responding" or replying to a post made by someone else. That seems important to some people. If those people want this thread to die, then talk to be the people making the posts that I reply to.

 

[aragorn]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with your post. It seems like you're downplaying having a strategy and a plan. Part of the plan is understanding the priorities and timing or order of the events and when they need to occur. That's an important part of a good strategy.

Lots of things for you seem to be a "woulda, coulda, shoulda" because you have a tendency to either forget or whitewash all of the events that led to a current situation like they are somehow unimportant trivial details that should be swept under the rug when convenient.

I too hope for the best like all Senator fans do. Because of the Chabot LTIR, we are cap complaint now. But, before that we were running a reduced roster because of the cap pickle we were in. We all know who is responsible for roster construction.

Thankfully, Grieg has filled in nicely. On or around (after) Jan. 21st there will have to be another roster subtraction to get Pinto inserted into the lineup because of the cap constraint unless something else happens like LTIR. But I just don't see how the last half of your post relates to the things that happened before the end of July 2023 which led to the cap crunch & Pinto situation. And, this is a Pinto thread versus a more general Senator (cheerleading) thread. Just an idea (and imho), there was a 2023 Senator positivity thread so that would be a good place for about half of your post.

When they need to occur & when they happen are two different things when you are working with other people who may not be on your timeline. You think they should have occurred in a particular order, but life doesn't happen that way, things change all the time. I don't care about past events, I think things will always work out & they usually do, one way or another. I don't dwell over spilled milk, I clean it up.

Even in your own post you admit that things are working out, Greig has worked out, Chabot hurt has given them cap space, Pinto suspended has also solved the problem. PD did a pretty good job of roster construction with the one example of Pinto & IMO it seems he had a plan in place when Pinto came to town until the NHL stepped in which likely ended any deals he may have had. They did have a reduced roster but it wasn't a big deal, they won three in a row after the Carolina game, injuries caught about to them again. You can continue with your glass half empty posts while I see it as a glass half full, not great, but not terrible either. This is a good team that is young & still making young player mistakes that take time to get out of their games, a number of vets have said it takes 300 games or 3 to 5 yrs before they finally get it & they are slowly getting there IMO.

 

[Smash88]

You don't get paid while under suspension

Am I remembering wrong? I swear in the past they had to give a portion or all of their game salary to a fund or a charity or something like that?

 

[Big Muddy]

When they need to occur & when they happen are two different things when you are working with other people who may not be on your timeline. You think they should have occurred in a particular order, but life doesn't happen that way, things change all the time. I don't care about past events, I think things will always work out & they usually do, one way or another. I don't dwell over spilled milk, I clean it up.

Even in your own post you admit that things are working out, Greig has worked out, Chabot hurt has given them cap space, Pinto suspended has also solved the problem. PD did a pretty good job of roster construction with the one example of Pinto & IMO it seems he had a plan in place when Pinto came to town until the NHL stepped in which likely ended any deals he may have had. They did have a reduced roster but it wasn't a big deal, they won three in a row after the Carolina game, injuries caught about to them again. You can continue with your glass half empty posts while I see it as a glass half full, not great, but not terrible either. This is a good team that is young & still making young player mistakes that take time to get out of their games, a number of vets have said it takes 300 games or 3 to 5 yrs before they finally get it & they are slowly getting there IMO.

Things are working out in spite of what was done by the person managing roster construction and the cap. Most of the things you mentioned in the 1st sentence of the 2nd paragraph (the part that is bolded) are fate not outcomes of specific things that Dorion did.

You keep bringing up points that are really outside of this specific topic. Yes, we both cheer for the Senators and want good things for them and for them to win. But I don't see the point of constantly dredging up the "glass half empty" theme when the subject at hand is more specific. I never said everything that Dorion has done is bad. So I'm not sure why there's so much effort to broaden the discussion to this topic.

This is a Pinto thread, and accounting for the events that occurred that led to this situation is absolutely relevant and on-point. If you want to say that things are working out, I don't have any negative thoughts about that, or particularly feel the need to comment other than to point out that around Jan.21st something else will need to happen besides just Pinto returning. Details are important.

In general, I'm thinking all of the things that could be said about this topic have already been said.

 

[JD1]

You don't get paid while under suspension

and you definitely don't get paid without a contract

 

[Micklebot]

You don't get paid while under suspension

The question is does the players emergency assistance fund get stiffed, normally a players suspension would start with the contract, and his salary would be forfeited to the emergency assistance fund. So neither the team nor the player gets the money, and it doesn't affect her shares.

It's an odd situation to have the suspension start with no contact.

 

[aragorn]

Things are working out in spite of what was done by the person managing roster construction and the cap. Most of the things you mentioned in the 1st sentence of the 2nd paragraph (the part that is bolded) are fate not outcomes of specific things that Dorion did.

You keep bringing up points that are really outside of this specific topic. Yes, we both cheer for the Senators and want good things for them and for them to win. But I don't see the point of constantly dredging up the "glass half empty" theme when the subject at hand is more specific. I never said everything that Dorion has done is bad. So I'm not sure why there's so much effort to broaden the discussion to this topic.

This is a Pinto thread, and accounting for the events that occurred that led to this situation is absolutely relevant and on-point. If you want to say that things are working out, I don't have any negative thoughts about that, or particularly feel the need to comment other than to point out that around Jan.21st something else will need to happen besides just Pinto returning. Details are important.

In general, I'm thinking all of the things that could be said about this topic have already been said.

Regardless it has worked out in his favour & could turn into a better deal for the team, it's a positive in my books. Pinto bears resposibility for what he did & lost to the team until Jan, that's on Pinto & it could end up being a much better deal for the team & their cap in Jan than it was this past summer, we'll see. Fate is like that sometimes.

 

[LiseL]

All I saw was the sens were informed close to the start of camp, which could be before or after. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it narrowed down more than that. The investigation however did start earlier in the summer.

Lebrun reported they were informed there was an investigation being held right before camp. At that point, they would not have known its outcome. Once they investigation was completed, the league informed the Senators to stop negotiating and not to sign a contract. It is believed this occurred when Pinto left Ottawa to return to Long Island, so in October after the regular season had started.