Player Discussion Shane Pinto (C) - PART 2

[HSF]

he friend was probably making bets while pinto was playing games

pretty easy to catch

 

[Golden_Jet]

My assumption is that the US state betting sites won't allow you to log on from out of state, and the idea was use the VPN not to disguise it was him, but just to allow him to make the bet himself rather than us a proxy, since from his comments it's the illegality of proxy betting that was at issue, not the fact that he was betting.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the situation, I've never really been into online gambling so I really don't know the finer details.

A VPN could work, but once they start suspecting, he was doomed.
Even if used a VPN, supposedly he was caught when team was out West in Canada.
So hard to get explain that one away.

 

[Micklebot]

A VPN could work, but once they start suspecting, he was doomed.
Even if used a VPN, supposedly he was caught when team was out West in Canada.
So hard to get explain that one away.

Caught doing what though?

It is not against the rules for Pinto to place bets, they are allowed to do that. The NHL said he was not suspected of betting on hockey.
What Pinto said, is he go in trouble for Proxy betting, which is illegal. If he used a VPN (assuming that would work) he would not be proxy betting, so presumably, not get in trouble unless there is some other legal issue with using a VPN to place bets.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Caught doing what though?

It is not against the rules for Pinto to place bets, they are allowed to do that. The NHL said he was not suspected of betting on hockey.
What Pinto said, is he go in trouble for Proxy betting, which is illegal. If he used a VPN (assuming that would work) he would not be proxy betting, so presumably, not get in trouble unless there is some other legal issue with using a VPN to place bets.

He got caught, he was in Canada, according to the NHL schedule, and bets were placed.

Obviously he can’t be in 2 places at one time. You have to be physically in New York State to bet. You can’t login to account from Florida and place a New York bet.

 

[Tuna99]

If Norris isn't scoring on his shot he helps very little. Hopefully he is healthy coming back and he trusts his shoulder.

Norris really dug in and tried to play Martin’s system and didn’t do it selfishly. He’s an underrated player here and I can’t believe Sens fans don’t see his overall game and only see his shot

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I have a good feeling about Norris this season and beyond. I think they finally fixed the issue.

The Michael Jordan of Shoulder surgeons

 

[The Waffler]

The Michael Jordan of Shoulder surgeons

For the Michael Jordan of shoulder injuries.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He got caught, he was in Canada, according to the NHL schedule, and bets were placed.

Obviously he can’t be in 2 places at one time. You have to be physically in New York State to bet. You can’t login to account from Florida and place a New York bet.

Why do you have to be in New York State? Can’t you bet from anywhere in NA on sports

 

[Golden_Jet]

Why do you have to be in New York State? Can’t you bet from anywhere in NA on sports

I don’t know the reasons why, it’s the same in all states.

For those asking about VPN software, sites use geolocation software to determine if a combination of IP address, GPS, and wi-fi triangulation, to determine if account should be red flagged for monitoring.

 

[Micklebot]

He got caught, he was in Canada, according to the NHL schedule, and bets were placed.

Obviously he can’t be in 2 places at one time. You have to be physically in New York State to bet. You can’t login to account from Florida and place a New York bet.

You are missing the point.

The issue the NHL had, according to him, is that he was proxy betting (his friends placed bets on his account) which is illegal.

He could not place bets himself because he isn't a canadian citizen so couldn't place bets on canadian sites, and geo blocking prevents you from placing bets outside of the state which you are registered your US account in. His work around was proxy betting (bad).

I'm wondering if a VPN could have allowed him to use his own account without proxy betting, and whether that is legal or just brings forth a different issue. If NY state says using a VPN to place bets while out of state even though you're a ordinary resident of NY state, then maybe he'd have been nailed for a different issue, Idk.

What I'm not asking is could he have used a VPN to hide his gambling activity.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You are missing the point.

I’m not missing the point, I was answering Burrows question. I’m fully aware how he was caught, using his friends.
Making a bet, while your team is scheduled to play in Canada, sets off flags for monitoring.
Same if they were playing in Tampa, he can’t place a bet in New York,

The issue the NHL had, according to him, is that he was proxy betting (his friends placed bets on his account) which is illegal.

He could not place bets himself because he isn't a canadian citizen so couldn't place bets on canadian sites, and geo blocking prevents you from placing bets outside of the state which you are registered your US account in. His work around was proxy betting (bad).

I'm wondering if a VPN could have allowed him to use his own account without proxy betting, and whether that is legal or just brings forth a different issue. If NY state says using a VPN to place bets while out of state even though you're a ordinary resident of NY state, then maybe he'd have been nailed for a different issue, Idk.

What I'm not asking is could he have used a VPN to hide his gambling activity.

No a VPN would get red flagged in the geo location software they use.

They check IP address
GPS
Wi-fi triangulation.

If he is playing out of state, how is a bet being made legally. So they investigate, that’s how he got caught using friends.

 

[Micklebot]

I’m not missing the point, I was answering Burrows question. I’m fully aware how he was caught, using his friends.
Making a bet, while your team is scheduled to play in Canada, sets off flags for monitoring.
Same if they were playing in Tampa, he can’t place a bet in New York,

You quoted me, so how are you answering Burrow's question?

The question really boils down to are the laws in NY state such that you can only place a bet while in NY or are you allowed to make a bet so long as you are a NY state resident and validated your account. It sounds like it's based on your location at the time the bet is placed, so if that's the case fine, a VPN doesn't resolve the issue, it just shifts it to being a different one.

No a VPN would get red flagged in the geo location software they use.

They check IP address
GPS
Wi-fi triangulation.

If he is playing out of state, how is a bet being made legally. So they investigate.

So I guess the sites require you to turn on and share GPS and Wifi data? Anyways, it's a moot point, if states also don't legally allow interstate online gambling, he'd just be breaking a different law and still likely get in trouble (possibly less, or more, who knows...)

 

[Golden_Jet]

So I guess the sites require you to turn on and share GPS and Wifi data? Anyways, it's a moot point, if states also don't legally allow interstate online gambling, he'd just be breaking a different law and still likely get in trouble (possibly less, or more, who knows...)

You don’t need to turn anything on, they just parse the metadata from the incoming handshake request .

 

[bicboi64]

Norris really dug in and tried to play Martin’s system and didn’t do it selfishly. He’s an underrated player here and I can’t believe Sens fans don’t see his overall game and only see his shot

He absolutely did, but he doesn't produce enough to warrant his caphit and his defensive play isn't worth his caphit.

If he can get to a 60-70pt level and evolve other aspects of his offensive game so he doesn't rely on his shot he'll be a worth his caphit.

 

[aragorn]

He absolutely did, but he doesn't produce enough to warrant his caphit and his defensive play isn't worth his caphit.

If he can get to a 60-70pt level and evolve other aspects of his offensive game so he doesn't rely on his shot he'll be a worth his caphit.

I disagree with the bolded part when this team needs to reduce their goals against & be much harder to play against & be much better defensively in their own end. These type of players are not valued as high by fans as they are by coaches & every team needs them. I view him as a possible Patrice Bergeron kind of player who hopefully can increase his offensive numbers while still playing a great defensive game.

IMO by the time he signs his next contract it will be around the $7 - $8 mil mark because he will put up a decent amount of pts, but even more importantly he will be able to help shutdown the big centres in our division. He's got the size to be able to slow down Mathews, he is building the strength to fightoff Barkov & he has the speed to defend against the speedy NHL centres. He's also very good at faceoffs already & should only get better with Norris & Giroux to learn from. He is what I would call a very good all around complete player with size & speed which is exactly what this team needs, he just needs more experience. He is without a doubt a top six player & I bet he will show it again this coming season.

 

[bicboi64]

I disagree with the bolded part when this team needs to reduce their goals against & be much harder to play against & be much better defensively in their own end. These type of players are not valued as high by fans as they are by coaches & every team needs them. I view him as a possible Patrice Bergeron kind of player who hopefully can increase his offensive numbers while still playing a great defensive game.

IMO by the time he signs his next contract it will be around the $7 - $8 mil mark because he will put up a decent amount of pts, but even more importantly he will be able to help shutdown the big centres in our division. He's got the size to be able to slow down Mathews, he is building the strength to fightoff Barkov & he has the speed to defend against the speedy NHL centres. He's also very good at faceoffs already & should only get better with Norris & Giroux to learn from. He is what I would call a very good all around complete player with size & speed which is exactly what this team needs, he just needs more experience. He is without a doubt a top six player & I bet he will show it again this coming season.

FFs we really need to stop overrating our own players.

We gotta stop comparing Norris, who is solid in his own end (not some Selke candidate the way some think he'd be), to a generational defensive forward. Norris isn't defensively good enough and probably won't be defensively good enough to slow down a generational goal scorer like AM34 or the best defensive forward in the game in Barkov. One hard body check and his shoulder will break.

 

[aragorn]

FFs we really need to stop overrating our own players.

We gotta stop comparing Norris, who is solid in his own end (not some Selke candidate the way some think he'd be), to a generational defensive forward. Norris isn't defensively good enough and probably won't be defensively good enough to slow down a generational goal scorer like AM34 or the best defensive forward in the game in Barkov. One hard body check and his shoulder will break.

One could argue the opposite that we under value our prospects & over value other team's prospects. I was talking about Pinto more so than Norris, I did say that Norris is very good at faceoffs & could help Pinto get better at faceoffs along with Giroux, who is also very good at faceoffs. But I was discussing Pinto as the guy to slow down Mathews.

Pinto has the size & is very good defensively in his own right & as he gets the experience could slow down AM34 or Barkov. He might not be able to do it in every game nobody can, but it's always better to have someone in your lineup with the size & ability than not having anyone who can slow those guys down. Afterall we have to play them & should have someone pasted to them when we do every shift possible & Pinto seems like the guy to do just that. He did a pretty good job against Mathews the last time we played them when Jacques put together the Tkachuk - Pinto - Batherson line all big guys, all skilled players.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I disagree with the bolded part when this team needs to reduce their goals against & be much harder to play against & be much better defensively in their own end. These type of players are not valued as high by fans as they are by coaches & every team needs them. I view him as a possible Patrice Bergeron kind of player who hopefully can increase his offensive numbers while still playing a great defensive game.

IMO by the time he signs his next contract it will be around the $7 - $8 mil mark because he will put up a decent amount of pts, but even more importantly he will be able to help shutdown the big centres in our division. He's got the size to be able to slow down Mathews, he is building the strength to fightoff Barkov & he has the speed to defend against the speedy NHL centres. He's also very good at faceoffs already & should only get better with Norris & Giroux to learn from. He is what I would call a very good all around complete player with size & speed which is exactly what this team needs, he just needs more experience. He is without a doubt a top six player & I bet he will show it again this coming season.

Are we talking about Josh Norris here?

 

[aragorn]

Are we talking about Josh Norris here?

I was talking about Pinto but Norris is a similar 200' complete player IMO when healthy.

 

[sena]

He has only played 140 pro games. He is very young in his development cycle. His TOI is only going to increase he is one of the only forwards on this team that will likely play PP and PK.

He played over 18 mins a night, I have no problem with the way he plays but i dont see how he gets more ice. I doubt he passes Timmy

 

[bert]

He played over 18 mins a night, I have no problem with the way he plays but i dont see how he gets more ice. I doubt he passes Timmy

He's gonna take all the shut down matchups. When Giroux is done he will take all the right handed draws too. I actually think he's a better fit with Tkachuk as well, so good chance he has the best winger on his line too. He's just scratching the surface he's quite easily the 3rd most important forward on this team.

 

[Micklebot]

FFs we really need to stop overrating our own players.

We gotta stop comparing Norris, who is solid in his own end (not some Selke candidate the way some think he'd be), to a generational defensive forward. Norris isn't defensively good enough and probably won't be defensively good enough to slow down a generational goal scorer like AM34 or the best defensive forward in the game in Barkov. One hard body check and his shoulder will break.

I think maybe @aragorn was talking about Pinto even though you had been referencing Norris, this is the Pinto thread after all... My reasoning for that is the next contract talk, Norris is locked in so why would he be looking 7 years down the road?

Not that it takes away from your point, whether it's Norris or Pinto, Bergeron comparisons are a bit much.

 

[bicboi64]

I think maybe @aragorn was talking about Pinto even though you had been referencing Norris, this is the Pinto thread after all... My reasoning for that is the next contract talk, Norris is locked in so why would he be looking 7 years down the road?

Not that it takes away from your point, whether it's Norris or Pinto, Bergeron comparisons are a bit much.

You're right.

Apologies @aragorn for the miscommunication on my part, but I'll make my point for Norris to Pinto as well.

Pinto is good defensively and has good IQ. But Pinto hasn't been doing much to stop the elite talent in the league right now. Let the man play 82 games now that he's filled out his frame and progressed in his development before we talk about him as if he's a Selke level player

 

[aragorn]

You're right.

Apologies @aragorn for the miscommunication on my part, but I'll make my point for Norris to Pinto as well.

Pinto is good defensively and has good IQ. But Pinto hasn't been doing much to stop the elite talent in the league right now. Let the man play 82 games now that he's filled out his frame and progressed in his development before we talk about him as if he's a Selke level player

It's a prediction, nothing more.

 

[milkbag]

Why do you have to be in New York State? Can’t you bet from anywhere in NA on sports

With my Betway account I couldn't place bets while at a buddy's cottage in Quebec during the playoffs