TV: Severance - Apple TV
- Thread starter WeThreeKings
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Just doesn't seem to me like too many people (in this thread and in other forums) are paying much attention to the plot with Dylan particularly.
I think the introduction of the "Family Visitation Room" is very interesting part of the re-working that Lumon had done since the OTC situation... and a great way to sort of break up the MDR rebellion in a way. Dylan is now de-incentivized from participating in any of the "uprising" activities of MDR due to not wanting to lose his visitation rights. On top of that he's now also somewhat divided from his peers in MDR, as he's keeping a pretty big secret from them. I think that they would probably be pretty jealous of him for this, considering that Mark's entire being revolves around getting his wife back and Lumon is literally just bringing Dylan's in and sanctioning this whole space for them.
I think it's another great example of the double-edged sword that is Lumon. On one hand they give these 'rewards' like dance parties, waffle bars, and now family visitation to seem like they're making concessions and appreciating the 'workers', but at the same time they're also using it like a carrot on a stick and a way to keep him in line. I wondered if Dylan is also part of a side experiment that they're doing to see if they can create good obedient workers out of guys like his outtie who seem to be 'losers' in their real professional life.
Dylan's wife's feelings are also starting to become pretty complex and muddled here as well. It seems to me as though she's going to be having an affair on her husband with... her husband... (someone hilariously said in a comment "How is this dude gunna steal his own girl?"). You can tell that she's very unfulfilled with his Outtie and his failures in life. In the brief glimpses of their home life he appears to be a less than stellar partner, and she's already lying to Outtie Dylan about seeing Innie Dylan.
I think it's another great example of the double-edged sword that is Lumon. On one hand they give these 'rewards' like dance parties, waffle bars, and now family visitation to seem like they're making concessions and appreciating the 'workers', but at the same time they're also using it like a carrot on a stick and a way to keep him in line. I wondered if Dylan is also part of a side experiment that they're doing to see if they can create good obedient workers out of guys like his outtie who seem to be 'losers' in their real professional life.
Dylan's wife's feelings are also starting to become pretty complex and muddled here as well. It seems to me as though she's going to be having an affair on her husband with... her husband... (someone hilariously said in a comment "How is this dude gunna steal his own girl?"). You can tell that she's very unfulfilled with his Outtie and his failures in life. In the brief glimpses of their home life he appears to be a less than stellar partner, and she's already lying to Outtie Dylan about seeing Innie Dylan.
100%
I also talk Severance on this discord I am on and I forget what I post where
Besides the camera factors, Lumon is smart enough to know that Dylan was one of the main agitators in the uprising and know they are almost blackmailing him with the visitation and holding the security for his family over his head. They have all but neutered the bad boy of MDR.
Dylan went from being the most loyal to the cuck
With Irv... Burt is absolutely dirty and playing him.
I still don't know who Irv is talking to on that payphone...
Besides the camera factors, Lumon is smart enough to know that Dylan was one of the main agitators in the uprising and know they are almost blackmailing him with the visitation and holding the security for his family over his head. They have all but neutered the bad boy of MDR.
Dylan went from being the most loyal to the cuck
With Irv... Burt is absolutely dirty and playing him.
I still don't know who Irv is talking to on that payphone...
Yea they’ve absolutely neutered Dylan who was the pot stirrer, now with Mark re-integrating it’s going to be hard for him to decide on how to proceed. Immediately stopping any form of disobedience would be pretty suspicious, but continuing to resist puts him in harm as well.
Agreed about Irving, i feel pretty sad about Burt turning out to be a bad guy to be honest. Really had high hopes for him and Irving becoming an item lol.
There are so many mysteries with Irving that I think many people aren’t exploring. Why did he have all of the information on severed employees? How did he come to get this information? How did his Innie know exactly where and what to look for? And why in Kier’s name is he spam-painting that f***ing hallway?
Agreed about Irving, i feel pretty sad about Burt turning out to be a bad guy to be honest. Really had high hopes for him and Irving becoming an item lol.
There are so many mysteries with Irving that I think many people aren’t exploring. Why did he have all of the information on severed employees? How did he come to get this information? How did his Innie know exactly where and what to look for? And why in Kier’s name is he spam-painting that f***ing hallway?
Yes and Yes on the first 2 paragraphs
This is us bro
the underlined part
this goes back to who(m)ever he is talking to on that payphone. Outie Irv is on the other end of liking Lumon. They may have f***ed with his Dad and he wants revenge. That is what I am randomly piecing together. I don't know why else they showed some dad stuff in that trunk in his house)
Please elaborate on the part in italics
On the bolded part
I am thinking Irv's chip bleeds over or he has figured out how to induce it to with sleep deprivation.
Outie Irv either wanted Innie Irv to see the testing floor and be "familiar" enough with it to get themself down there (where he would be an outie) or was once on the testing floor himself
Outie Irv either wanted Innie Irv to see the testing floor and be "familiar" enough with it to get themself down there (where he would be an outie) or was once on the testing floor himself
It wasn't a *bad* episode it just wasn't a great one. Being the second straight episode that leaves most of the characters out, it really needed to justify two weeks without advancement on the other plot threads. The reveal was pretty enormous all things considered, but I don't think it needed quite as much set up as it got. They could've made this a longer episode involving everyone and trimming some of the fat off of Cobel's scenes. In a nutshell it was a fine bit of story. The fact that it postpones so many characters' stories makes it feel underwhelming.
He also did say that his innie got the message. Probably what that's referring to but that's episodes that happened weeks on weeks ago. Not sure we need spoiler tags anymore.
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This is a great read
Another one. My Google feed is spittin' fire
Nothing to add to the insight I just gotta say I love that they filmed this in Newfoundland
Again, really not a fan of the overall pacing this season. Just kinda seems to be all over the map. Going to be annoyed if we learn nothing about outie irv this entire season. If reghabi turns out to be bad in some sort of way that will be annoying to because as I said earlier, it would mean they are just dumbing down the characters and writing when around her to withhold a reveal.
No wonder we had Mark reintegrate in episode 3 because there are just 2 episodes left in the season and we still haven't seen him really interact with being reintegrated yet.
Ive really missed the innie interactions and explorement of the severed floor this season. We've learned a lot, but also at the same time know even less.
I really hope this show doesn't go down the westworld path.
No wonder we had Mark reintegrate in episode 3 because there are just 2 episodes left in the season and we still haven't seen him really interact with being reintegrated yet.
Ive really missed the innie interactions and explorement of the severed floor this season. We've learned a lot, but also at the same time know even less.
I really hope this show doesn't go down the westworld path.
Hate to say it, but I don't see the show resolving every one of the many balls they've left in mid-air. I'm guessing they'll answer the big questions: Lumon's purpose, Mark and Gemma, Helena/Hellie. But I'm expecting the Irv and Dylan subplots to be left dangling.
Sorry for the delayed response.
I am going to continue to use Spoiler Tags because it feels as though quite a lot of people do not have Apple TV and have not seen the show, so I don't want to spoil for anyone who is yet to see the show. If it was on Netflix/HBO/Hulu it would be the #1 show right now, but many people I know do not have Apple TV.
As for the part regarding Irving:
I am wondering if that was just a function of how the show was edited to leave out minutia during one of the most important episodes of the show.
It's possible. Also, it could have some thing to do with whoever his outtie is speaking to over the pay phone. With the "ink" hallucinations that his innie has experience paired with the fact that his outtie is painting the dark hallway it seems like he's having some 'bleeding over' between his two conciousness.
I'm looking forward to seeing the significance of the song "Ace of Spades", as it appears this is his go-to song when he does his paintings as his outtie.
one of the jokes I often make about myself is that my subconscious is exponentially smarter than my conscious
Since I posted that, my subconscious came up with a theory. it's awesome that you posted the same thing..lol Maybe we are on to something!!! This started as a post and then I read that you posted the same thing so I made it a reply
What if....
My belief is Irv is experimenting with sleep deprivation and part of his outie bleeds over in to his innie
Maybe outie Irv spends his non-painting time , other than walking Radar, doing his anti-Lumon research and goes in the box so often that it seemed familiar to innie Irv?
Maybe outie Irv spends his non-painting time , other than walking Radar, doing his anti-Lumon research and goes in the box so often that it seemed familiar to innie Irv?
I had the exact same thought, he's doing something intentionally and the paint shows there is indeed something bleeding between the severed lines
Yes, unfortunately.
I haven't found myself looking forward to new episodes of a show in such a long time.
76 minute season finale!
HF died before I could post thoughts on episode 9. I'll start with brief thoughts and then theorize about how the finale will play out
Loved the parallel with Irv saying he's ready to be loved. Glad Burt didn't off him but I have to think he'll be back in Season 3 which is when we'll probably learn more about who he was investigating Lumon for.
Also thought it was kind of hysterical that they had Devon there to softly calm Mark's innie down when waking up outside of work only for him to walk into a new room with Cobel staring him down menacingly. Like I just imagine Devon telling Cobel to not be too intense and Cobel ignoring that request.
A lot of people seem mixed on the Dylan side of the story this past episode. That the proposal and break up didn't really land for them emotionally. I feel differently. This is i!Dylan's first experience with love and longing. But more than that Gretchen represented the first thing that gave his life meaning beyond the life he'd cultivated at Lumon which was largely based around pride in earning paltry rewards from Lumon for and assuming he was a badass as an outie because of his refining proficiency. Gretchen came in and showed Dylan that he was the "better" version but also that his outie has access to things with real meaning to him: a loving wife and a family. Gretchen is his only link to what he'd consider the potential to have a meaningful existence. Just the notion that he has kids on the outside was enough to make him rebel from the comfort of the life he cultivated at Lumon. When Gretchen threatens to rip that away from him, he proposes in desperation without really thinking about the logistics of how he can share a life with his outie wife. Maybe Dylan is a candidate for reintegration next season. Maybe they go really wacky with it and o!Dylan volunteers to be "retired" and let i!Dylan be the one that exists at all times.
Loved Milchick finally showing some honest to god rebelling against Lumon by telling Drummond to devour feculance (that whole scene was excellent) and then eventually letting Mark do his thing even though there's immense pressure to bring Mark in and likely some suspicion that he might be up to something. But I also loved that Milchick making that decision came from Mark telling Milchick that he needed personal time and "work is just work" and, most importantly, that Lumon is supposed to be all about balance. Mark didn't realize it, but he basically shattered Milchick's already wavering convictions on his devotion to the cult of Kier and Lumon. If you think about it, Milchick was also emboldened to defy Drummond after Helly big timed him. I think Milchick was more or less already on the verge of cracking but his MDR team helped him along. He's still a piece of shit though. Sending Ms. Huang to Svalbarg out of pettiness. I mean Google Svalbarg. That's a tough place to live.
I was glad that at least Mark seemed to have some rationality in putting up initial resistance to trusting Cobel. I ended up finding Devon annoying again. Like I've had plenty of time to think about her trusting Cobel since episode 6 and I can understand that she's panicked and desperate but a few lines of dialogue here and there would have helped sell that. Like when Mark first says in the car that it was a bad idea, instead of playing the snarky sibling with the less awful plan, maybe they could have kept that line and then said "look that woman put a hole in your head and then abandoned us. I didnt know who else to turn to and what other options do we have at this point? We don't know anyone else who might know how to help you and help us get Gemma back" a line like that would help make an implausible alliance a lot more believable but instead we have to just infer that's Devon's reasoning and not some random rush of stupidity.
A couple theories I've seen pop up that I don't agree with:
1) when Jame confronts Helly in the MDR office, he says "you tricked me" with no real explanation. Some have theorized that Helena is back on the severed floor. I don't think this is the case this time. Helly was definitely behaving as Helly would on the severed floor. I think the "trick" might be that Helena/Helly is pregnant by Mark and it may have an adverse impact on whatever the "revolving" is supposed to be. I can see the thought process that maybe Helena is going back to the severed floor to stop Cold Harbor and get access to the testing floor but why would she need to pretend to be Helly to do it? She has access to the surveillance feeds of the severed floor. She should know exactly where it is and how to go down.
2) this is a super widely held theory but when Cobel says that Devon is "one of Jame's. No one is to know about it" everyone rushed to the conclusion that women around the town of Kier were routinely getting impregnated with James Eagan's bastard children but I don't think that's what Cobel meant. I think the birthing retreat having at least one cabin with a remote Severance block door is not something that is public knowledge. The only element of Severance we know is known by the public is severed work and that, in and of itself, is shown to be controversial. The point of the gala in the finale is to convince the public that Severance is safe and beneficial and to grow/deregulate the practice. Devon in season 1 noticed that the senator backing Severance's wife, Gabby Arteta seemed to have inconsistent memories outside of the retreat. Arteta stayed vague and didn't reveal she had severed birth but she spoke about it freely with Helly R thinking she was talking to Helena Eagan. I think one of Jame's means VIPs who are given the option to undertake their birthing while severed as something of a pilot program that isn't public knowledge yet. The idea that old man Jame is knocking women up either personally or through Lumon artificial insemination is a more sinister answer but I think this show has routinely shown that the more sinister or scientifically fantastical theories passed around are usually not correct. And what narrative purpose would it serve if Jame was spreading his lineage far and wide? Making the line "we are all children of Kier" geneaologically literal? I just don't see it.
Last note, while I have enjoyed this season, I have a serious gripe with the reintegration subplot. They had this happen very early in the season and the presumption was that reintegration would have huge ramifications on the plot with Mark now bearing both sets of memories both innie and outie. So far all it has amounted to was a pretext for Mark to be unconscious to get Reghabi out of the story and have Mark run through Gemma flashbacks, some coughing fits to foreshadow the medical issues Petey suffered, and a few flashes of his innie's memories of Ms. Casey to believe she's truly alive. Ultimately this feels like a bait and switch to hype people up. We're up to the finale now and Mark is nowhere near as close to real reintegration like with Petey being able to remember things from work. I really don't appreciate the way they used this plot line as a device to generate continued interest and hype only to continually blue ball the audience.
Also thought it was kind of hysterical that they had Devon there to softly calm Mark's innie down when waking up outside of work only for him to walk into a new room with Cobel staring him down menacingly. Like I just imagine Devon telling Cobel to not be too intense and Cobel ignoring that request.
A lot of people seem mixed on the Dylan side of the story this past episode. That the proposal and break up didn't really land for them emotionally. I feel differently. This is i!Dylan's first experience with love and longing. But more than that Gretchen represented the first thing that gave his life meaning beyond the life he'd cultivated at Lumon which was largely based around pride in earning paltry rewards from Lumon for and assuming he was a badass as an outie because of his refining proficiency. Gretchen came in and showed Dylan that he was the "better" version but also that his outie has access to things with real meaning to him: a loving wife and a family. Gretchen is his only link to what he'd consider the potential to have a meaningful existence. Just the notion that he has kids on the outside was enough to make him rebel from the comfort of the life he cultivated at Lumon. When Gretchen threatens to rip that away from him, he proposes in desperation without really thinking about the logistics of how he can share a life with his outie wife. Maybe Dylan is a candidate for reintegration next season. Maybe they go really wacky with it and o!Dylan volunteers to be "retired" and let i!Dylan be the one that exists at all times.
Loved Milchick finally showing some honest to god rebelling against Lumon by telling Drummond to devour feculance (that whole scene was excellent) and then eventually letting Mark do his thing even though there's immense pressure to bring Mark in and likely some suspicion that he might be up to something. But I also loved that Milchick making that decision came from Mark telling Milchick that he needed personal time and "work is just work" and, most importantly, that Lumon is supposed to be all about balance. Mark didn't realize it, but he basically shattered Milchick's already wavering convictions on his devotion to the cult of Kier and Lumon. If you think about it, Milchick was also emboldened to defy Drummond after Helly big timed him. I think Milchick was more or less already on the verge of cracking but his MDR team helped him along. He's still a piece of shit though. Sending Ms. Huang to Svalbarg out of pettiness. I mean Google Svalbarg. That's a tough place to live.
I was glad that at least Mark seemed to have some rationality in putting up initial resistance to trusting Cobel. I ended up finding Devon annoying again. Like I've had plenty of time to think about her trusting Cobel since episode 6 and I can understand that she's panicked and desperate but a few lines of dialogue here and there would have helped sell that. Like when Mark first says in the car that it was a bad idea, instead of playing the snarky sibling with the less awful plan, maybe they could have kept that line and then said "look that woman put a hole in your head and then abandoned us. I didnt know who else to turn to and what other options do we have at this point? We don't know anyone else who might know how to help you and help us get Gemma back" a line like that would help make an implausible alliance a lot more believable but instead we have to just infer that's Devon's reasoning and not some random rush of stupidity.
A couple theories I've seen pop up that I don't agree with:
1) when Jame confronts Helly in the MDR office, he says "you tricked me" with no real explanation. Some have theorized that Helena is back on the severed floor. I don't think this is the case this time. Helly was definitely behaving as Helly would on the severed floor. I think the "trick" might be that Helena/Helly is pregnant by Mark and it may have an adverse impact on whatever the "revolving" is supposed to be. I can see the thought process that maybe Helena is going back to the severed floor to stop Cold Harbor and get access to the testing floor but why would she need to pretend to be Helly to do it? She has access to the surveillance feeds of the severed floor. She should know exactly where it is and how to go down.
2) this is a super widely held theory but when Cobel says that Devon is "one of Jame's. No one is to know about it" everyone rushed to the conclusion that women around the town of Kier were routinely getting impregnated with James Eagan's bastard children but I don't think that's what Cobel meant. I think the birthing retreat having at least one cabin with a remote Severance block door is not something that is public knowledge. The only element of Severance we know is known by the public is severed work and that, in and of itself, is shown to be controversial. The point of the gala in the finale is to convince the public that Severance is safe and beneficial and to grow/deregulate the practice. Devon in season 1 noticed that the senator backing Severance's wife, Gabby Arteta seemed to have inconsistent memories outside of the retreat. Arteta stayed vague and didn't reveal she had severed birth but she spoke about it freely with Helly R thinking she was talking to Helena Eagan. I think one of Jame's means VIPs who are given the option to undertake their birthing while severed as something of a pilot program that isn't public knowledge yet. The idea that old man Jame is knocking women up either personally or through Lumon artificial insemination is a more sinister answer but I think this show has routinely shown that the more sinister or scientifically fantastical theories passed around are usually not correct. And what narrative purpose would it serve if Jame was spreading his lineage far and wide? Making the line "we are all children of Kier" geneaologically literal? I just don't see it.
Last note, while I have enjoyed this season, I have a serious gripe with the reintegration subplot. They had this happen very early in the season and the presumption was that reintegration would have huge ramifications on the plot with Mark now bearing both sets of memories both innie and outie. So far all it has amounted to was a pretext for Mark to be unconscious to get Reghabi out of the story and have Mark run through Gemma flashbacks, some coughing fits to foreshadow the medical issues Petey suffered, and a few flashes of his innie's memories of Ms. Casey to believe she's truly alive. Ultimately this feels like a bait and switch to hype people up. We're up to the finale now and Mark is nowhere near as close to real reintegration like with Petey being able to remember things from work. I really don't appreciate the way they used this plot line as a device to generate continued interest and hype only to continually blue ball the audience.
And for my separate theories on how the finale plays out:
I think what will have to happen by default is Mark will return to the severed floor after he and Cobel hatch a plan. There's a shot from one of the preseason trailers that shows Mark being slammed against a wall by Drummond on the testing floor. I think the rub is going to be that Drummond will go down personally to coerce Mark to finish Cold Harbor. I think Mark will be warned that if he finishes, Gemma will die, so he isn't going to do it even with Drummond trying to strong arm him. I think somehow either Helly or Milchick will help Mark get away from Drummond so he can get down to the testing floor. Haven't really conceived of how he would do so and what would happen if/when he reunites with Gemma but I do feel like the show needs a compelling reason to bring these characters back to Lumon for season 3.
Theory 1 is I think Mark somehow finds a way to delete the progress of the Cold Harbor file and reset it to 0. But I think he gets captured by Lumon, has his reintegration undone and gets entirely reset so he doesn't remember anything about Gemma or Ms. Casey or even his past with Dylan, Irv and Helly and they keep Mark down on the severed floor to re-do Cold Harbor. I think at that point Season 3 becomes about the rest of the cast finding a way to rescue both Mark and Gemma.
Theory 2 is a bit of an alternative. Same result. Mark gets re-severed and reset without sabotaging Cold Harbor and he unknowingly gets Gemma killed. How they conceive a compelling plot into Season 3 going forward, I don't know.
Theory 3 is a bit more out there. Regardless of what happens whether Gemma is killed, saved, whether Cold Harbor is completed or not, I still like the idea that Cold Harbor gets reset for this one. But basically my thinking is that Mark gets new motivation to keep working files for Lumon after a reveal that Helena/Helly is pregnant with his child (OR, Gemma has already been artificially inseminated and given birth to Mark's child on the testing floor) and unless Mark obeys the company they will keep the child as a prisoner and use him/her as a lab rat for their whole lives. I like the idea of dangling this motivation over Mark's head because, as f***ed up as it would be, it would give Mark a reason to comply with Lumon enough to keep coming to work. Especially if Mark or another character manages to sabotage Cold Harbor somehow he'd have extra motivation to save Gemma, possibly Helly, and possibly his own child.
However it shakes out I just can't see him getting Gemma out alive this season. Even if the circumstance is he does get Gemma out alive and has to try to save his and Gemma's baby, why would Lumon let Mark come back to work after absconding with Gemma as their golden testing subject?
Theory 1 is I think Mark somehow finds a way to delete the progress of the Cold Harbor file and reset it to 0. But I think he gets captured by Lumon, has his reintegration undone and gets entirely reset so he doesn't remember anything about Gemma or Ms. Casey or even his past with Dylan, Irv and Helly and they keep Mark down on the severed floor to re-do Cold Harbor. I think at that point Season 3 becomes about the rest of the cast finding a way to rescue both Mark and Gemma.
Theory 2 is a bit of an alternative. Same result. Mark gets re-severed and reset without sabotaging Cold Harbor and he unknowingly gets Gemma killed. How they conceive a compelling plot into Season 3 going forward, I don't know.
Theory 3 is a bit more out there. Regardless of what happens whether Gemma is killed, saved, whether Cold Harbor is completed or not, I still like the idea that Cold Harbor gets reset for this one. But basically my thinking is that Mark gets new motivation to keep working files for Lumon after a reveal that Helena/Helly is pregnant with his child (OR, Gemma has already been artificially inseminated and given birth to Mark's child on the testing floor) and unless Mark obeys the company they will keep the child as a prisoner and use him/her as a lab rat for their whole lives. I like the idea of dangling this motivation over Mark's head because, as f***ed up as it would be, it would give Mark a reason to comply with Lumon enough to keep coming to work. Especially if Mark or another character manages to sabotage Cold Harbor somehow he'd have extra motivation to save Gemma, possibly Helly, and possibly his own child.
However it shakes out I just can't see him getting Gemma out alive this season. Even if the circumstance is he does get Gemma out alive and has to try to save his and Gemma's baby, why would Lumon let Mark come back to work after absconding with Gemma as their golden testing subject?
