Serious question pertaining to the Laine hit/injury

[Arthur Morgan]

it's a complete accident which could have been avoided. just really bad luck he got caught before he closed that gap.

 

[Rob Sense]

Instead of his knee Pare could have put out an elbow or held his stick in a cross check. A legal hit to stop a player is body to body...anything else is a weapon and subject to a penalty.

The defender was stationary and has no obligation to move out of the way, so to me, it's Laine's responsibility to try to skate past him without leaving his left leg extended out like that.

He moved into him with a flexed knee. 100% penalty

 

[Petrus]

I might be alone on this one, I feel that when the hitter is the one engaging the contact, he holds full responsibility for the outcome. The hitter cannot put himself and the opposing player into a situation where serious injury could occur.

 

[Statto]

I hate to be that guy, especially in a thread created by amnesiac, but why did he leave out this image? @amnesiac

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The image is essentially meaningless in terms of apportioning blame without the context leading up to it. It’s obviously horrible and you have to hope Laine is auk

 

[Statto]

The impetus is on the defender is to take the body (torso). My issue with Pare's play is that he's not in Laine's lane and takes a flexed-knee stance, rather than realize he was beaten and made no discernable effort to take the body.

This is basically a "skill" issue. Pare doesn't have the ability to defend the play at high speed and simply "braces" himself instead, which creates the knee-on-knee. It's only an unavoidable situation because the defender is incapable of defending the play properly and does the one thing you shouldn't in flexing his knee towards the offensive player. It's only a bad hit by Pare because he's not able to play at high speed.

I think this is it. The knee movement looking at the mechanics was just him bracing for body contact and Laine was well ahead of him with his movement. It definitely looked unfortunate, as you say because of a skill issue, with no intent.

 

[SheldonJPlankton]

100% on the defender.

He had an obligation to make a legal hit and instead moved his leg to make an illegal hit.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'm confused as to whether Pare made the "hit" or is just "bracing" for contact.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It’s give us a clearer perspective to answer the question

Probably a frame or 2 earlier is what would be better.

 

[Spawn]

Not to make light of this situation but this debate reminds me of this.

Feels like a really unfortunate incident where both players were “entitled” to the space but both were being reckless.

 

[Toby91ca]

To me it’s 50/50, Laine tries to go through with a wide stance and Pare sticks out his left knee when he looks like he’s going to get beaten.

Except he didn't. He was caught flat footed, his legs didn't really move, Laine faked to the left and he shifted his weight that way (no leg movement) and Laine then tried to slip by on the right side and he shifted his weight back in that direction....again, no leg movement. It's one of those plays where if there is a trip, it sucks because it's really the puck carrier that put themselves in the position and got tripped even though the defender didn't really do much to trip you. So, it's normally called a tripping penalty, or borderline, but in terms of dirty or sticking the knee out and injuring a guy....this doesn't even come close to that.

I get the response though because it injured a star player.....the "actual" response was pathetic though.....you can't grab a guy and punch him in the back of the head...period, that is super dangerous.

 

[blundluntman]

Can't answer this question without asking whether both players legs have the same right to be in that position in the first place. Laine's carrying the puck and claims that lane first. Pare moves his leg in Laine's way as a reaction to Laine potentially passing by him. Pare's leg has just as much of a right to be there as his stick would be if this was a trip instead of a knee on knee.

 

[waitin425]

I hate to be that guy, especially in a thread created by amnesiac, but why did he leave out this image? @amnesiac

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This. Laine was trying to avoid it. Pare leaned into it. As per above.

However.....this is a play that unfortunately happens in hockey in real time and with big fast men. Other than a penalty and even minor suspension potentially being called, this was handled the way it should be....by Xhekaj.

If this was a Hab injuring a Leaf, my opinion would be the same. It is hockey. It is a penalty. It is dirty. It is fast. Shit happens.

I am so upset we lost Laine. But, more at the stupid luck of it, then even Pare.

Let's hope Laine is back by January and move on.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I think it's 60% on Pare since he seems to have made the correction in an attempt to catch a piece of Laine and prevent him from just skating by. It's 40% on Laine to protect himself in this situation by not skating with his legs so far apart while splitting the defense.

The more I look at it, I think the injury was going to occur no matter where the knee was. They both held too wide of a leg gap and since Pare was stationary and leaning fwd his leg made an angle meaning that whether it was knee on knee or shin to shin, Laine's leg was going to be forced in a downward angle damaging the knee

I hate to be that guy, especially in a thread created by amnesiac, but why did he leave out this image? @amnesiac

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Look at the angle of his legs, whether Pare's left leg pivoted or not, the impact was going to force Laine's leg downward.

Laine took a risk. Paré didnt want to get shifted, so he went simple jack.

Paré is guilty 100%.

As an automobile driver, its your responsibility to stop before hitting a jaywalker, even thou they are not supposed to be jaywalking.

its a DIRTY HOCKEY PLAY, bottom line.

I think AX72 and JS20 did the right thing. NHL refs are a joke.

i want revenge. f*** the leafs

I think you got the analogy backwards

Instead of his knee Pare could have put out an elbow or held his stick in a cross check. A legal hit to stop a player is body to body...anything else is a weapon and subject to a penalty.


He moved into him with a flexed knee. 100% penalty

I didn't see that, I saw more a player trying to make a deke around a stationary player. Pare looked like he braced for impact and since he was leaning forward with bent knees, that impact forced Laine's leg downward. IMO its the angle of the leg, not the knee that did Laine in

 

[BertCorbeau]

I might be alone on this one, I feel that when the hitter is the one engaging the contact, he holds full responsibility for the outcome. The hitter cannot put himself and the opposing player into a situation where serious injury could occur.

Ehhhh there is some responsibility on any player putting themselves in a dangerous position for a hit, especially with how fast paced the game is.

That’s not saying in this case Laine bears said responsibility though.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

He moved into him with a flexed knee. 100% penalty

He's standing completely still the entire time Laine has the puck on his stick. Even when he turns his whole body to get a hand/shoulder on Laine, his skates don't really move. Sure, his knee flexes as he's shifting his weight and turning his hips, but that's how the human body works. There's nothing in his actions that suggests to me that he was attempting to make contact with the knee. If anything, it looks like Laine was trying to force his left skate between the defender's legs for some stupid reason. Even if Pare doesn't try to make upper body contact and flex his knee, what's Laine's strategy here?

 

[MartyOwns]

 

[D1az]

I'm going to be a bit controversial but given Laine's overall skill-level and speed I do think that it should be part of his skillset to manage situations like this.
I just don't think he can head into that situation with his leg far out and low like that.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'm going to be a bit controversial but given Laine's overall skill-level and speed I do think that it should be part of his skillset to manage situations like this.
I just don't think he can head into that situation with his leg far out and low like that.

It’s a peculiar move by Laine for sure. He never really moved his feet after the red line, just kind of coasted into the teeth of the defense. Made no move at all to avoid contact, just a strange looking play.

 

[Koivu11]

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Incredible news given what it looked like. Hopefully the guys can give him a decent record to come back too!

 

[AD1066]

That's good news, I thought initial expectations were 6+ months.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I think some Habs fans, and. most neutral & TO fans see this as an accident. Then there's another group who is threatening Pares family.

Habs , Leafs ,Cowboys , Yankees , Real Madrid , Barca , comes with the territory man

Wow thats kind of amazing news , hope he can recover well

 

[Halakitlikethat]

I don’t think it’s malicious intent to injure or anything but that’s on the defender for sticking his leg out

 

[Deadly Dogma]

great news!!, its amazing he has no tears considering how far the knee deflected

 

[theVladiator]

The issue with the OP question is that the injury did not occur because "none of them moved away", but because one of them stuck the knee out at the last moment. Not saying it's intentional, or anything like that, but only one guy here initiated knee-on-knee contact.

You can skate in a wide stance. You can stand in a wide stance. Just do not stick your knee out towards the incoming player.