Serious Concern

[hotpaws]

Yes actually, it is. You have criticized someone else's performance so let's see you explain what, exactly, you would have done.

He wasn't the GM for a full season in his first year so we cannot fairly hold that one against him as he was only partially responsible for putting that team together.

And nobody is claiming that he produced great results, only that he inherited an organization whose cupboards were bare and that he left that organization in far better shape than when he arrived.

I'll tell you what i wouldn't have done , i wouldn't have traded multiple first round picks for a soft sniper .

I would have loaded up on draft picks like Tallon did in Flor and i wouldn't have sign trash like Komi and the rest just to try an accelerated retool . I also would have made being the GM the num 1 priority and i wouldn't have gone speaking tours and whatever other crapped that popped into his mind .

At the end of the day everyone is held accountable for there performance and Burke was reminded the hard way he was an employee like everybody else .

 

[BillyD]

Yes actually, it is. You have criticized someone else's performance so let's see you explain what, exactly, you would have done.




He wasn't the GM for a full season in his first year so we cannot fairly hold that one against him as he was only partially responsible for putting that team together.

And nobody is claiming that he produced great results, only that he inherited an organization whose cupboards were bare and that he left that organization in far better shape than when he arrived.

hey the moment i hold myself out as being qualified to be hired for 3 mil X 6 yrs to manage the leafs, what i would have done becomes relevant, i don't do that and won't waste our time with hindsight because the answers are obvious

the bottom line is we got 83 points the year before he arrived and 81 after he left with not a single playoff game in between

not a single draft pick he made while he was here ever cracked the nhl for more than a cup of coffee, there is nothing tangible you can point at that justifies keeping him

sorry, i loved the guy, i believed in him, he couldn't handle our market, he was in over his head

NEXT! maybe nonis can be another anthopulous

 

[Bomber0104]

The team was a mix of guys drafted or brought in before Burke and guys drafted or brought in by Burke.

But not prospects.

The only drafted prospects that made an impact were Kadri and Frattin (and Frattin was a JFJ pick).

This is just the truth of the matter. And even more astonishing is the fact that not a single draft pick from any of Burkes piss poor years have made the NHL team yet.

The Marlies didn't make it to the Calder final because of Burke's drafting and prospects....which are perceived by scouts and prospect publications as average.

 

[ULF_55]

The team was a mix of guys drafted or brought in before Burke and guys drafted or brought in by Burke.

Playoffs

Player|DOB|Age|Games|Goals|Assists|Points
Philippe Dupuis|24/04/1985|26|17|4|10|14
Matt Frattin|03/01/1988|23|13|10|3|13
Jerry D'Amigo|19/02/1991|20|17|8|5|13
Nicolas Deschamps|06/01/1990|21|17|3|9|12
Jake Gardiner|04/07/1990|21|17|2|9|11
Nazem Kadri|06/10/1990|20|11|3|7|10
Joe Colborne|30/01/1990|21|15|2|6|8
Mike Zigomanis|17/01/1981|30|13|4|2|6
Ryan Hamilton|15/04/1985|26|17|2|3|5
Korbinian Holzer|16/02/1988|23|17|1|4|5
Greg Scott|03/06/1988|23|17|3|2|5
Marcel Mueller|10/07/1988|23|9|2|3|5
Juraj Mikus|30/11/1988|22|17|1|4|5
Matt Lashoff|29/09/1986|24|8|0|4|4
Mark Fraser|29/09/1986|24|17|0|3|3
Carter Ashton|01/04/1991|20|6|1|2|3
Simon Gysbers|07/05/1987|24|17|1|1|2
Will Acton|16/07/1987|24|17|1|1|2
Jesse Blacker|19/04/1991|20|6|0|1|1
Colton Orr|03/03/1982|29|8|0|0|0
Josh Engel|07/07/1984|27|6|0|0|0
Jay Rosehill|16/07/1985|26|13|0|0|0
Kelsey Wilson|22/01/1986|25|1|0|0|0
Ben Scrivens|11/09/1986|24|17|0|0|0
Spencer Abbott|30/04/1988|23|5|0|0|0
David Broll|04/01/1993|18|2|0|0|0
Stuart Percy|18/05/1993|18|3|0|0|0

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Ratings aren't reliable. Look at how many players with decent ratings get drafted and then don't pan out. Results mean more than ratings and the Marlies made it to the Calder Cup finals last year so they obviously did pretty damned well.

The team Burke inherited is called an "empty cupboards" team. Yet that Marlies team had a much better regular season than last years Marlies. They won one less game in the playoffs. One less game.

So do you think Burke inherit a team full of elite prospects?

 

[Judas Tavares]

But not prospects.

The only drafted prospects that made an impact were Kadri and Frattin (and Frattin was a JFJ pick).

This is just the truth of the matter. And even more astonishing is the fact that not a single draft pick from any of Burkes piss poor years have made the NHL team yet.

The Marlies didn't make it to the Calder final because of Burke's drafting and prospects....which are perceived by scouts and prospect publications as average.

Man.. The oldest one is 22... Not everyone makes it at 18. And if Rielly makes it this year, that would count, but you'd find a way to not identify it, or make it negative by saying he isn't ready.

 

[egd27]

Burkites vs Corporations

I'm tired of it already.

I guess you gotta hitch your wagon to something huh?

You're tired of listening to people complain about something related to the leafs?
That's priceless.

 

[Stephen]

hey the moment i hold myself out as being qualified to be hired for 3 mil X 6 yrs to manage the leafs, what i would have done becomes relevant, i don't do that and won't waste our time with hindsight because the answers are obvious

the bottom line is we got 83 points the year before he arrived and 81 after he left with not a single playoff game in between

not a single draft pick he made while he was here ever cracked the nhl for more than a cup of coffee, there is nothing tangible you can point at that justifies keeping him

sorry, i loved the guy, i believed in him, he couldn't handle our market, he was in over his head

NEXT! maybe nonis can be another anthopulous

You make a good point that he couldn't handle our market. The way he was constantly in the media fighting this or that or sounding off kind of seemed like he was affected by what was said and done around him to some degree. You need a seasoned pro who will just go about and build a great team without all the theatricality.

 

[ULF_55]

You make a good point that he couldn't handle our market. The way he was constantly in the media fighting this or that or sounding off kind of seemed like he was affected by what was said and done around him to some degree. You need a seasoned pro who will just go about and build a great team without all the theatricality.

JFj used to get trashed with the "neither confirm nor deny" comments, but Burke spoke forever without saying anything.

They were so similar in their differences.

 

[DaveT83*]

You're tired of listening to people complain about something related to the leafs?
That's priceless.

No - I'm tired of a certain population of fans on these boards who for years championed Brian Burke - and his every word/move. He's now been relived - and instead of swallowing what little pride they have and owning up the error of their ways - they are going to run this ITS NOT BRIANS FAULT ITS THE EVIL CORPORATIONS campaign until they are blue in the face.

 

[Stephen]

No - I'm tired of a certain population of fans on these boards who for years championed Brian Burke - and his every word/move. He's now been relived - and instead of swallowing what little pride they have and owning up the error of their ways - they are going to run this ITS NOT BRIANS FAULT ITS THE EVIL CORPORATIONS campaign until they are blue in the face.

I don't understand why people also say things like "I can see why Brian Burke got let go by virtue of his poor on ice record but the timing is off." Perhaps, but had he been fired the other 364 days of the year, I'm sure the timing would have been off too given the amount of over analysis that goes on in this town. If it was a move that you understand as reasonable, than it had to be done.

 

[achtungbaby]

No - I'm tired of a certain population of fans on these boards who for years championed Brian Burke - and his every word/move. He's now been relived - and instead of swallowing what little pride they have and owning up the error of their ways - they are going to run this ITS NOT BRIANS FAULT ITS THE EVIL CORPORATIONS campaign until they are blue in the face.

Yes, it's hard being wrong about something. Might as well blame the suits even though we didn't care about them until a couple of days ago. Now they run everything even though they've been in charge since August.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Is all the Burke lovers who think him going to parades is more important than improving this team.Burke thought he was bigger than Leaf nation.Burke got flattened.He did a garbage job,making his own agenda top priority.I am still highly suspicious of the Kessel trade with his buddies in Boston and how he overpaid.His free agent signings were stupid and Grabo making $5 million is "ludicrous" by his own admission.

We have a bunch of naive Leaf fans who are upset because a champion of their views was fired for being a bad GM.They assume the rest of us care about their causes and him supporting them is some kind of moral victory.Well he is gone,and Leaf nation is number one again.I am well tired of Burke's sideshow antics at our expense.Good riddance.Good move Leaf brass.Bravo!Encore!

You've almost got the paragraph thing correct.

Time to heal the punctuation...

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

And what would you have done in light of how bare the cupboard was when he arrived?

Urban legend.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Well that's some rather thinly veiled bigotry isn't it?

I must admit that I see no link between that comment and the post you quoted...

 

[ULF_55]

Urban legend.

I'd say more a busted myth.

30 goal scorer
1st. pairing defender
last starting goalie

were amongst the many assets in the cupboard when Burke arrived.

 

[Frankie]

No - I'm tired of a certain population of fans on these boards who for years championed Brian Burke - and his every word/move. He's now been relived - and instead of swallowing what little pride they have and owning up the error of their ways - they are going to run this ITS NOT BRIANS FAULT ITS THE EVIL CORPORATIONS campaign until they are blue in the face.

i'd like to see some media acknowledge the error of their ways as well. burke was heralded as a god-like figure when he was hired. tsn literally had a picture of him with a halo over his head when he was named leafs gm.

burke told everyone he was terrific at this job, and many fans and media bought in.

 

[egd27]

No - I'm tired of a certain population of fans on these boards who for years championed Brian Burke - and his every word/move. He's now been relived - and instead of swallowing what little pride they have and owning up the error of their ways - they are going to run this ITS NOT BRIANS FAULT ITS THE EVIL CORPORATIONS campaign until they are blue in the face.

Can I then assume you are going on record as stating that Leafs fans do not need to worry that this ownership group will interfere with the hockey operations to the detriment of the team?

 

[darrylsittler27]

It is about their lifestyle.

No - I'm tired of a certain population of fans on these boards who for years championed Brian Burke - and his every word/move. He's now been relived - and instead of swallowing what little pride they have and owning up the error of their ways - they are going to run this ITS NOT BRIANS FAULT ITS THE EVIL CORPORATIONS campaign until they are blue in the face.

They supported him no matter what because he championed their lifestyle and they saw his hiring as a moral victory for them and the re education of the masses.It didn't matter about how garbage the team was,only that their selfish cause was furthured.After all hockey might enlighten young children,thus futhuring their perverted cause.We may even get some normal free agents now.....

Bravo leaf brass,and thank you for ending the gong show.They owe Burke nothing.Goodbye R.I.P.

 

[Frankie]

Can I then assume you are going on record as stating that Leafs fans do not need to worry that this ownership group will interfere with the hockey operations to the detriment of the team?

maybe they will, maybe they won't. impossible for us to say whether there has been or will be any "interference" from ownership, or to what degree any interference might be.

certainly no reason to think leafs ownership "interferes" any more than any other nhl owner.

 

[zeke]

No matter the PR that is to come from the new owners this was a power struggle over team direction and a TOTAL DECISION to sack Burke at a critical time in the year/season was an example of irrational behavior were in for the future.

why is this a "critical time in the year" ?

 

[egd27]

maybe they will, maybe they won't. impossible for us to say whether there has been or will be any "interference" from ownership, or to what degree any interference might be.

certainly no reason to think leafs ownership "interferes" any more than any other nhl owner.

Correct.

However given the timing, and the reasons given for the action, it is not unreasonable to raise an eyebrow of concern.

I don't have an issue with Burke being fired based on his results, but the anti-Burke gang are so giddy with the fact he is gone, they may be overlooking a bigger picture issue.

I'm not suggesting the new ownership group is an "evil empire", or that it was the wrong decision, but the reasons and timing of this action do cause me to wonder about how things will operate going forward.

 

[indigobuffalo]

It may seem like an irrational decision, but I believe the reports that Bell/Rogers Board of Governors didn't like Burke from the start.

The take-over wasn't finalized until late August, and the Board didn't have time to put together a list of replacement candidates before the lockout started.

After that point, they wanted to wait until the CBA negotiations were done. The decision came down almost immediately after the CBA was ratified by the NHL.


So while it all seems to be sudden and suspect behaviour, it really is a well thought-out process. I personally disagree with the Board's assessment that Burke wasn't the right man for the job, and even if I didn't feel that way, I don't understand the reasoning behind replacing Burke with Nonis. But that's neither here nor there. As for the purpose of this thread, the BoG played it fine.

 

[Al14]

Is all the Burke lovers who think him going to parades is more important than improving this team.Burke thought he was bigger than Leaf nation.Burke got flattened.He did a garbage job,making his own agenda top priority.I am still highly suspicious of the Kessel trade with his buddies in Boston and how he overpaid.His free agent signings were stupid and Grabo making $5 million is "ludicrous" by his own admission.

We have a bunch of naive Leaf fans who are upset because a champion of their views was fired for being a bad GM.They assume the rest of us care about their causes and him supporting them is some kind of moral victory.Well he is gone,and Leaf nation is number one again.I am well tired of Burke's sideshow antics at our expense.Good riddance.Good move Leaf brass.Bravo!Encore!

I agree. How long will it be before he shows up on Boston's payroll?

 

[colchar]

I'll tell you what i wouldn't have done , i wouldn't have traded multiple first round picks for a soft sniper .

Neither would I, at least not at that point. If he was one of the final pieces to put them over the top then fine. But trading for him at that time I would have insisted that at least one of the first rounders (most likely the first one) be lottery protected.