Seravalli: NHL Back to AZ Within 5yrs ?!?

[Leafs87]

I really don’t understand the expansion/relocation process in the NHL. How is a team destined for relocation this year yet already being reconsidered for a franchise within 5 years…

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

The land auction had been canceled, and that spurred the action to move to Utah

Actually that's not completely accurate. The decision to move to Utah was simply from the players not wanting to play at Mullett any longer. If anything, the Tempe thing was probably the final nail in the coffin. The land auction was the reason they made Arizona a dormant, but not defunct franchise. They win the auction, Arizona eventually rejoins the league Cleveland Browns style. AFTER that, they cancelled the land auction and Meruelo walked away.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

It's always been the plan to get the NHL back to Arizona ASAP, it's just frustrating because the Coyotes had guys like Cooley, Guenther, Doan and Iginla which made for a very exciting future. The new team won't have that.

Yeah they could very well be a team like Quebec was headed to Colorado. Only difference is Quebec had turned the corner the season they moved. Utah looks really close on paper.

 

[Crede777]

Market size and fanbase are two entirely different numbers. Right now, Arizona and Atlanta are large populous areas, but there is little interest right now. Curiosity will sell out a few games at first, but the game needs to grow into expansion, not expand and expect it to grow with it.

Ticket prices are just too high in every NHL arena to grab new fans and keep them coming when those areas have other entertainment options at lower prices.

I think the longterm goal for the league is to shift revenue away from attendance/tickets and into media contracts and corporate sponsorships. To that extent, the market size is very important.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

can we stop expanding and further diluting the talent pool? holy hell. in the context of other sports, hardly anyone in the US cares about hockey. fix the product before you go giving a team to every tom dick and harry.

The owners care more about splitting those huge expansion fees vs losing a mid tier player off their teams roster.

The league wants franchises in all US markets as they continue to chase a big TV rights deal. The NHL unlike the other big sports is still primarily a gate revenue league. This is why Bettman has always been dead-set on a team in Arizona. It's also why they shall see priority in expansion over other markets, even those in an area with more fans of hockey, ei Quebec City.

I do agree it sucks for our franchises talent pool as fans. I think we will have a 36 team league within a decade. 4 teams in the next 10 years would be almost 5 billion for the owners to split. 4 new markets to sell streaming/tv rights. It's going to happen.

Edit. I have to add this as we've seen expansion hurt teams with deeper more talented rosters as they stand to lose a more substantial player, the by product, is an increase in parity. The league itself loves parity and has made rule changes to increase it.

 

[GKJ]

Actually that's not completely accurate. The decision to move to Utah was simply from the players not wanting to play at Mullett any longer. If anything, the Tempe thing was probably the final nail in the coffin. The land auction was the reason they made Arizona a dormant, but not defunct franchise. They win the auction, Arizona eventually rejoins the league Cleveland Browns style. AFTER that, they cancelled the land auction and Meruelo walked away.

I ran two things together. The canceled auction spurred Meruelo to relinquish his rights. The auction being when it was to take place, along with the auction obvious skepticism that Meruelo would succeed, is what spurred the move to Utah.

The players likely made it known their feelings about Mullett, but they did not have any recourse aside from refusing to sign new contracts or requesting trades. All they could do is kick and scream and hold it over them in the next CBA - which will still happen.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

There's a great way to drum up loyalty and ticket sales in Utah. "We love our temporary fans!"

 

[Mike Jones]

Better off going to QC. Better hockey market. But of course Bettsy won't go where the potential is if there's a desert to stick a team in.

 

[Kegs]

I really don’t understand the expansion/relocation process in the NHL. How is a team destined for relocation this year yet already being reconsidered for a franchise within 5 years…

It’s because Arizona has a massive population. If they could make a winning franchise they might be able to make $. The coyotes were never good enough to make them popular.

 

[GKJ]

I really don’t understand the expansion/relocation process in the NHL. How is a team destined for relocation this year yet already being reconsidered for a franchise within 5 years…

The first thing they had to do was make Meruelo shit or get off the pot. He went a long way toward burning a lot of bridges in the area. He’s out of the way now, so they can move on to others.

‘within 5 years’ still feels pretty sharp though

 

[GKJ]

Better off going to QC. Better hockey market. But of course Bettsy won't go where the potential is if there's a desert to stick a team in.

He won’t go where they don’t have a viable ownership structure, which is what is keeping Quebec off the mark right now.

 

[S E P H]

Five years

There Is one other option. Albeit a long shot.

What would that be? I think the Suns owner interest is legit because he is supposedly looking for a new arena, and this move would help them get the funds/land for that hybrid arena.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I really don’t understand the expansion/relocation process in the NHL. How is a team destined for relocation this year yet already being reconsidered for a franchise within 5 years…

Wasn't about the market but the ownership in the NHLs view, same with Atlanta. No one was able to get an arena built where it needed to be built in 30 years there and the NHL couldn't bail out water anymore.

Someone steps up and gets them a place to play in an area they want to be in and give them a competitive team ASAP ala Vegas model and the NHL thinks they have something

 

[ItWasJustified]

Real question is, who would be the 4th team? Should be a team that would slot naturally into the Eastern conference.

There's only one option: Quebec City.

If the NHL returns to Arizona, it isn't Bettman that is taking the risk. It's the owner who is paying billions to build a suitable arena and purchase the franchise.

If such a person exists, the league would be stupid not to go for it.

Huh? What are you talking about? How can you even think that a owner would take any kind of risk? The NHL already ran the Coyotes for several seasons so that was ALL on Bettman. And no Coyotes owner has taken any risk since they've all got their invested money back eventually.

He won’t go where they don’t have a viable ownership structure, which is what is keeping Quebec off the mark right now.

Yeah, right. Viable ownership structure like Meruelo provided? Bettman and the other owners took a dung bath there and should not be trusted in whatever they say about a Quebec ownership.

 

[StreetHawk]

What would that be? I think the Suns owner interest is legit because he is supposedly looking for a new arena, and this move would help them get the funds/land for that hybrid arena.

AZ and Hou basically the same situation in that the nhl to get into those markets it’s very likely needing to be owned by the nba owner. AZ would need a new arena versus try a massive restructure of footprint. Will have to see how serious Ishiba is. Is he more Smith or Fertitia?

I do wonder if these large markets finally begin to use their power of being a large market to get these owners to foot more of the bill. I mean there was a $1 bill difference in valuation between Phx and Charlotte and the hornets sold after the suns did. So there’s clearly value in being in the large markets that these owners would give up. What other locations could the suns go to that would get them the same valuation as being in Phx? Not Van, Stl, Pitt, Nash…

Of course there’s always the potential of competition from other cities or counties in the state.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I will ignore all hockey in Arizona news until they've broken ground on a new arena.

 

[TheLegend]

What would that be? I think the Suns owner interest is legit because he is supposedly looking for a new arena, and this move would help them get the funds/land for that hybrid arena.

Suns current lease runs through 2037.

The other option is ASU. They need a new basketball arena badly. They have the land, there’s no tax breaks needed and fewer political issues.

Could develop something along the lines of what Carolina and NC State have.

But it’s not a sure thing.

 

[GKJ]

There's only one option: Quebec City.


Huh? What are you talking about? How can you even think that a owner would take any kind of risk? The NHL already ran the Coyotes for several seasons so that was ALL on Bettman. And no Coyotes owner has taken any risk since they've all got their invested money back eventually.


Yeah, right. Viable ownership structure like Meruelo provided? Bettman and the other owners took a dung bath there and should not be trusted in whatever they say about a Quebec ownership.

Quebecor does. That’s why you haven’t heard from them, even though we just had a franchise relocate. They are playing by Bettman’s rules.

 

[Viqsi]

If they're serious about expanding to Houston and Atlanta (and by all accounts they are). then they need two more cities. to balance the Conferences/divisions. 17 teams each in the Eastern/Western conferences doesn't really work for nice clean divisions. If on the the other hand you add four teams, you'd have 18 in each conference and could do two divisions of nine teams each or three divisions of six (which, actually, I kind of like).

And with a four team expansion, yes a return to Arizona makes complete sense. I hope for Arizona's sake they get a management team that actually knows what they're doing this time.

Atlanta (East)
Houston (West)
Arizona (West)

Real question is, who would be the 4th team? Should be a team that would slot naturally into the Eastern conference. Another western team would push Chicago or Nashville east and result in them being the only team in that conference not in the Eastern Time zone -- something which they would really hate.

Presumably by the time a new owner and new arena are ready in Arizona someone will finally be willing to put up the cash in Quebec City. That'd be my guess, anyways.

 

[TooManyHumans]

It's not dumb to want teams in big-city telly markets. The Arizona cities, Houston, and Atlanta markets are all within the top 10 in terms of telly and corporate sponsorships. They would be dumb not to want to go to those locations.

It makes total sense that they want to be in those markets. The question I have is whether anything is going to be done any differently than the previous times they tried it in Atlanta and Arizona.

 

[JianYang]

Market size and fanbase are two entirely different numbers. Right now, Arizona and Atlanta are large populous areas, but there is little interest right now. Curiosity will sell out a few games at first, but the game needs to grow into expansion, not expand and expect it to grow with it.

Ticket prices are just too high in every NHL arena to grab new fans and keep them coming when those areas have other entertainment options at lower prices.

Atlanta is proposing to play in an area which is roughly a 90 minute drive from where the thrashers played. The only thing it will have in common with the previous iteration of the franchise is that it's under the Atlanta banner but otherwise, it's going to be a different fanbase, and a more affluent neighborhood, which appears to be a much better match for the nhl product.

I bet that Arizona will also only come back in Phoenix/Scottsdale. Again, their Glendale arena was not close to this area.

In both cases, they won't be coming back trying to replicate the same failed experiment.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I swear, if they get a team back before Atlanta…

But 10-15 years wouldn’t surprise me.

Neither city should be getting a team back. Stop going back to failed markets. They dont deserve teams.

 

[Score08]

For a the people smarter than me; why?

 

[StreetHawk]

I really don’t understand the expansion/relocation process in the NHL. How is a team destined for relocation this year yet already being reconsidered for a franchise within 5 years…

End of the day there will no longer be a “process”. More like how the nhl wanted Seattle and worked with them on their timeline. So whatever timeline the prospective owners in Atl, Hou, Az need the nhl will work with them on. NHL has targeted locations in mind and want to get there now. But a major obstacle is that these are nba markets and the nba club has the arena management agreement with the current arena. So if the nba owner isn’t involved that means a new arena somewhere else in that area. Whether another arena makes sense or not up to any other prospective owner to figure out.

Like if AZ won’t fund an arena until much closer to the expiration of the suns lease then the nhl will wait for AZ.

 

[Viqsi]

Neither city should be getting a team back. Stop going back to failed markets. They dont deserve teams.

Exactly. Markets that keep losing teams shouldn't be getting second and third chances. Really, the existing teams there should be removed as the markets have proven their lack of value and they should go to places where they'll be appreciated. Away with the likes of Ottawa, Minnesota, Toronto, and Montreal.